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Gaining ceiling height via trusses

cparcell

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hillsboro ohio
After a lot of reading around modifying trusses I want to see what everyone's recommendations were for my situation 30x40 pole barn Garage. Ceiling at bottom of chord is 10.6'. I'm thinking of scissor trusses to replace the last three to accomodate my rotary assemytrical lift.
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cparcell

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i have been considering scissor truss or possible scab but dont want to place my lift in the center of the garage either following the peak
 

Cobra6

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You need scissor trusses -
but I don't know how you would add them without rebuilding the shed.
 

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holdover

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it looks like you have the typical 4 or 6' between trusses. Have a truss company look at it, I bet you can have a sissor tuss made up to slide in next to your existing truss and screw to your existing top cord/rafter so that it will support your existing purlins then screw your existing truss to the new sissor truss and then cut away most of the truss work below the sissor truss. With the distance between trusses you should have enough room to place them on top of the wall.
 
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cparcell

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My trusses are on 8ft centers now, I did think I might be able to place my lift between the truss and lift the car between them and metal the ceiling below the purlins in that area of the shop.
 

theoldwizard1

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You need scissor trusses -
but I don't know how you would add them without rebuilding the shed.

My trusses are on 8ft centers now, I did think I might be able to place my lift between the truss and lift the car between them and metal the ceiling below the purlins in that area of the shop.

Well you don't have to rebuild the ENTIRE shed. You just have to rip half of the roof off, remove all of the purlins between to trusses you want to remove, remove the old trusses, install the new trusses and re-assemble.
 

buzz4041

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Probably be easier to add a new door on the other wall so you can pull in between the 8' truss and not do any roof modifications. Is that possible ?
 

Kevin54

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My trusses are on 8ft centers now, I did think I might be able to place my lift between the truss and lift the car between them and metal the ceiling below the purlins in that area of the shop.

If it were me, and I wanted the simplest way out. I'd go between them. Add a door if need be to gain access to the lift. I have a friend that did the same exact thing.
 

HoosierMark

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I just had trusses modified in the house I am building. They messed up and put three trusses in with flat ceiling where it was to be more cathedral. This meant that the trusses running the other way also had to be shortened. The truss people cam in, cut the trusses off as needed, added support posts and used a pressure plate type machine to install the big metal plates. Took about an hour for 6 trusses to be shortened by 8 feet.
So I am thinking if you support the roof line from the floor temporarily, why could you not cut out the existing truss frame work and make it a scissors frame work. Get a truss manufacturer to bring plates to marry them together. Or slide a scissors truss up next to the existing truss and bolt a column to the outside posts along the wall to support it. Bolt the trusses together and cut off the low portions of the existing ones. One or the other seems like it could work.
I have no training in engineering but I like to simplfy and this seems pretty simple. I can't wait to hear how dumb and probably unsafe my solution is!
 

little d

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^^^^This, except I'd take it one step farther. After bracing on both sides of truss, I'd remove the webbing and bottom cord, leaving the ridge cord (rafter). Depending on your skills, you could then build your own scissor using the old ridge boards or, buy one to slide under the existing one and attach.
 

theoldwizard1

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...The truss people came in, cut the trusses off as needed, added support posts and used a pressure plate type machine to install the big metal plates. Took about an hour for 6 trusses to be shortened by 8 feet.

^^^^This, except I'd take it one step farther. After bracing on both sides of truss, I'd remove the webbing and bottom cord, leaving the ridge cord (rafter). Depending on your skills, you could then build your own scissor using the old ridge boards or, buy one to slide under the existing one and attach.

This is NOT a DIY job ! Not unless you are willing to accept all of the liability of modifying an existing, aproved design and constructed building into one that is not.

Only a licensed truss design and manufacturing company should undertake thi endeavor !
 

Ross/Kzoo

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I would get a recommendation from a truss company. You could use engineered "I"joists on 16-24" centers and after having installed the necessary "engineered" joists then remove the trusses
 
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cparcell

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Thanks for the advice, I have a brother who is a pole barn builder, a father who is a engineer and several friends who are home carpenters. I think we can do the work to my area. I have been considering pulling down one of my shop doors and moving it to the side and entering sideways to the current door setup for the most simple application.
 

ltcmontana

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Since the existing trusses are clamped together, you could support the roof, disassemble the existing trusses and turn it into a scissor truss. I know the local truss builder here in MT and he has rebuilt many trusses in place. It really isn't that difficult.

The main 2x6 attached to the purlins and roof don't need to be replaced; only the supports to them.
 
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theoldwizard1

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Thanks for the advice, I have a brother who is a pole barn builder, a father who is a engineer and several friends who are home carpenters. I think we can do the work to my area.

I don't know where you live, but if you ever want to sell you place and a private inspector or an employee of the title company find out that you have modified the structure from the original design without design documents and permits forget it.
 
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Kevin54

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I don't know where you live, but if you ever want to sell you place and a private inspector or an employee of the title company find out that you have modified the structure from the original design without design documents and permits forget it.

I don't think that is wholly true. People modify from original structures everyday. As long as it done properly, there will be no problem with it.

An employee of a title company, most don't know which side of their *** to scratch if they have an itch, and an employee of a title company never checks out a house anyways. At least not around here. The only time any house or structure is checked is when someone buys it and request an inspection. Most inspectors do a walk through, hit the highlites and are out of there. When my son bought his place, the only thing the inspector was worried about was getting some heaters (baseboard ) in two of the upstairs rooms. He didn't give a **** that the bathroom floor was rotted out and the previous people could hit the toilet and piss and water were leaking through to the kitchen downstairs.

If a person was going to modify trusses while building a building, hardly anyone would have a problem with it. But modify one after they are up, and everyone goes into a frenzy. If people use common sense, and if they are capable of building a building their self, there is no reason that they can't modify something and it be structurally safe.
 

little d

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"If a person was going to modify trusses while building a building, hardly anyone would have a problem with it. But modify one after they are up, and everyone goes into a frenzy. If people use common sense, and if they are capable of building a building their self, there is no reason that they can't modify something and it be structurally safe."

Thank you.
 

kwyjibo

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Here's a photo of mine - with the last truss still in place. I don't know how useful my experience will be since it is a one-car (now two-car) garage. With a straight forward scissor design, I don't know how much height you will gain with the width that they'd be spanning. In my narrow garage, I got about another 18" which means that I could put in a 4-post lift.
scissor_zps15afd20d.jpg
 

paranoid56

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was the above design approved or did you wing it? not saying its bad or anything, i am just curious. I love this kinda stuff :D
 

Kevin54

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Here's a photo of mine - with the last truss still in place. I don't know how useful my experience will be since it is a one-car (now two-car) garage. With a straight forward scissor design, I don't know how much height you will gain with the width that they'd be spanning. In my narrow garage, I got about another 18" which means that I could put in a 4-post lift.

With the way you have modified that.....I'd say maybe it even has a tad bit of overkill built into it. The roof rafter structure will outlast us all.
 

kwyjibo

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a bit of overkill? yes... but, as of today there is about 12' of snow sitting on top of 3" of packed snow/ice on the roof. And winter just got started. This was designed by a neighbor who builds post and beam barns - he is of the better safe than sorry school of building.
Do we have strict permitting laws in my town? No, generally people do what they want (and it shows). Did we wing it? Sort of, in that I didn't have to pay an architect for some plans and then get approval from the town. But my neighbor is a pro and the garage now probably has the strongest roof of my whole house.
 

Kevin54

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a bit of overkill? yes... but, as of today there is about 12' of snow sitting on top of 3" of packed snow/ice on the roof. And winter just got started. This was designed by a neighbor who builds post and beam barns - he is of the better safe than sorry school of building.
Do we have strict permitting laws in my town? No, generally people do what they want (and it shows). Did we wing it? Sort of, in that I didn't have to pay an architect for some plans and then get approval from the town. But my neighbor is a pro and the garage now probably has the strongest roof of my whole house.

Don't take it the wrong way. I think it's great and I'm one that likes to see a little overkill in everything. That tells me that someone is really serious about what they are doing. Built to last. :thumbup:
 

kwyjibo

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@Kevin, I didn't take your question as a criticism, sorry if my reply came off sounding defensive. It was not intended to be, it was just a explanation.

OP, what did you decide on? I'm curious because I have a friend who now wants to install a lift and needs more height. His trusses span a much wider area than mine but he wants to avoid any mid-span vertical supports (for the space).
 

ltusler

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I don't think you need to do any mods. Just put up the lift and center on the space. I know it says you need 12', but the only thing that goes that high is about 6" of the hydraulic rams. the top of a vehicle will not.
 
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cparcell

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hillsboro ohio
Here's a photo of mine - with the last truss still in place. I don't know how useful my experience will be since it is a one-car (now two-car) garage. With a straight forward scissor design, I don't know how much height you will gain with the width that they'd be spanning. In my narrow garage, I got about another 18" which means that I could put in a 4-post lift.



this is exactly what im thinking, how much height did you gain, whats your roof pitch. I am located in the middle of Southern ohio, permits and building code is scarce, we bought the house i looked up the septic permit, i dug all around the yard based on the permit looking for the equipment to service the tanks, found it 200 ft away 6 feet from the house foundation. called the health department about the miss hap and they said oh thats fine they just moved it. only thing they care about around here is property improvements as they like to jack the taxes.
 

DekeT

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Here's a photo of mine - with the last truss still in place. I don't know how useful my experience will be since it is a one-car (now two-car) garage. With a straight forward scissor design, I don't know how much height you will gain with the width that they'd be spanning. In my narrow garage, I got about another 18" which means that I could put in a 4-post lift.

For a short span like you have this is probably ok. I could see two problems with a longer span based on flexing of the roof from temperature and live load. One is the web strength of the of the top truss chord when the truss moves could cause a split where it is bolted. Additional boards along side where the bolt point load is would have helped. The other is how the new boards connect at the bearing points. Appears to me, maybe just from the picture, that the original trusses are taking some odd push-pull stresses from the new boards just above the bearing points. These connections are supposed to be designed for mostly vertical stresses at the bearing point.
 

jarhead

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Here's a photo of mine - with the last truss still in place. I don't know how useful my experience will be since it is a one-car (now two-car) garage. With a straight forward scissor design, I don't know how much height you will gain with the width that they'd be spanning. In my narrow garage, I got about another 18" which means that I could put in a 4-post lift.
scissor_zps15afd20d.jpg
Didi see this on youtube?
 
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