Garage and taxes

[jmh21586]

The city I previously lived in had this bizarre rule whereby a building was "temporary" and therefore not part of your property assessment if it had a wood foundation. So I built a garden shed with a pressure treated 6x6/plywood foundation, and all was well. If I built it on a concrete foundation, it would add to my property assessment.

True a lot of places. It has to be permanent to be taxed. A garden shed on posts, sitting on concrete pads is considered movable, or not permanent, thus cannot be taxed. Most wooden decks are that way too. Around here if your deck is not connected to your home it cannot be taxed. Concrete patios of any kind are taxed as they are considered permanent. Blacktop driveways are not taxed higher than gravel, but concrete driveways are taxed. Above ground pools arent taxed, in ground pools are. ETC.

Taxing property based on market or any "value" is blatantly unfair. Why do I deserve to pay a larger percentage of municipal services used by all, strictly because my property is worth more than someone else? It's simple actually: socialist greed and envy.

That's all it is.

Leftist ideology says you actually, morally, do deserve to pay more because you have more. Hmmm, so lets see, the loaf of bread should cost me $4 because I make twice what my friend makes, so he'll only have to pay $2 for the same loaf of bread.

Quit with that rational thinking. You're making socialists look bad.

The fairest tax is a "poll tax." Divide the municipal budget by the population, and you have the per capita tax. Four people in my family, therefore I pay 4 times what a single person pays. Simple, fair, equitable. But not in the eyes of most people, who want someone else to pay their share.

I'd say each residence pays the same. An apartment building pays per how many apartments it contains.

Margaret Thatcher's government fell partially because she introduced a poll tax. When everyone felt the real price of government, instead of only the top 20% who paid 80% of whole cost (Pareto's Law), all hell broke loose. Leftist's and bureaucrat's definition of rich: someone who makes more than they do.

that is the main problem. Too many people with no or little skin in the game, voting for people who promise to raise someone elses taxes for their benefit. If you pay no taxes, do you care if government overspends? Of course not.

Anyway, our current municipality charges a 40% less municipal tax rate than my previous city, but the school tax is the same because we're in the same school district. School taxes make up more than 50% of the total tax bill here, also based on the value of the entire property including detached garages.

a perfect example of your bread anology. All the kids get the same education, yet the parents all pay diferent rates based on the value of their home. How does that even add up in rational thinking? What does your home value have to do with educating kids?


Glad I'm not alone in my thinking.

 

[REAL HOT SCHITT]

Hi, sorry i never learnt how to rite in lower case, and when i got my first job as wool grader... All the branding on packs was penned in upper case.
Its very hard for me to read in lower case... So its like u guys struggling to change to metric measurements.... Jj

 

[jmh21586]

You're doing fine hot ****.

 

[milkovich]

Why should I pay more or less in taxes on my property than anyone else?

The same reason you should pay income tax on capital gains and the same reason you should pay the same state sales tax percentage on your new Mercedes as I pay on my 20 year old pickup.

IF you want to talk about a fair tax, then talk about a flat tax. A usage tax or poll tax would make the poor pay proportionally more. We already live in a classist neo-feudal state (not as bad as UK yet) but there's no reason to institutionalize it.

 

[jmh21586]

The same reason you should pay income tax on capital gains and the same reason you should pay the same state sales tax percentage on your new Mercedes as I pay on my 20 year old pickup.

And that reason is what? Why should your 20 year old truck have cheaper taxes and/or registration than a new car when your truck is most likely harder on the roads and most likely pollutes more?
Since registration money and sales tax money should go to roads and bridges, they should be charged based on weight only. Since weight is what destroys roads more than any other thing.

IF you want to talk about a fair tax, then talk about a flat tax. A usage tax or poll tax would make the poor pay proportionally more. We already live in a classist neo-feudal state (not as bad as UK yet) but there's no reason to institutionalize it.

You're bringing in income tax to a property tax argument. But I am a supporter of a flat tax.
Since property taxes go mostly for government services, like fire and police, all propertys should pay the same amount.

And your argument about the poor paying proportionately more doesn't fly with me since the poor pay no income taxes, and some even get money back.

Sooner or later we need to move a little ways away from constantly ****** and pillaging everyone else for the sake of the "poor". It's destroying this country. Somebody needs to start looking out for the providers.

 

[bitbycarbug]

Hi, sorry i never learnt how to rite in lower case, and when i got my first job as wool grader... All the branding on packs was penned in upper case.
Its very hard for me to read in lower case... So its like u guys struggling to change to metric measurements.... Jj

It was not meant personally. It's just hard to read when someone uses caps as they tend to want to emphasize those words that are all caps. @metric conversions -- Tell me about it. I have told lots of people that instead of trying to learn metric and "standard" and then the conversions to switch between them, we should just start to teach metric earlier and start with the next generation. We could streamline some problems we have (See NASA conversions failures) and not have to learn both systems. Though the mph and some other fines such as ft/lbs would be the hardest to convert to and visualize them in metric.

And that reason is what? Why should your 20 year old truck have cheaper taxes and/or registration than a new car when your truck is most likely harder on the roads and most likely pollutes more?
Since registration money and sales tax money should go to roads and bridges, they should be charged based on weight only. Since weight is what destroys roads more than any other thing.



You're bringing in income tax to a property tax argument. But I am a supporter of a flat tax.
Since property taxes go mostly for government services, like fire and police, all propertys should pay the same amount.

And your argument about the poor paying proportionately more doesn't fly with me since the poor pay no income taxes, and some even get money back.

How are property taxes assesed? Isn't a certain percentage of the value? Is it the same percentage if it is valued at $25,000 or $2.5 million? Is it progressive? (I honestly don't know) If it is a flat tax rate(percentage wise) you are paying the same as someone else, just as a matter of percentages.

I do agree that we should get rid of income and some other taxes and go to a nationwide sales tax. Food and some other commodities would be tax free as to help the poor so they don't have a larger dis-proportionally percentage of their income going to things needed to live. It would be consumer commodities and would be a flat sales tax no matter the cost. So yes, you would pay more taxes on a Mercedes rather than a civic, but the percentage of the tax would be the same, derived from the purchase price of the car.

Sooner or later we need to move a little ways away from constantly ****** and pillaging everyone else for the sake of the "poor". It's destroying this country. Somebody needs to start looking out for the providers.

I would like to see the information on this one. Even with the current state of progressive income tax and other progressive taxes, the rich seem to be getting richer, the middle class is stagnant, and the poor are getting poorer.

 

[jmh21586]

How are property taxes assesed? Isn't a certain percentage of the value? Is it the same percentage if it is valued at $25,000 or $2.5 million?

Yes, that's the way it is assessed. But why? Why should the owner of the $2.5 million house pay more than the owner of a $25,000 house? What more is the owner of the expensive house getting for his money than the owner of the $25,000 house? They both recieve the same services from government right?

Is it progressive? (I honestly don't know) If it is a flat tax rate(percentage wise) you are paying the same as someone else, just as a matter of percentages.

Yes, it's a flat % tax across the board.

I do agree that we should get rid of income and some other taxes and go to a nationwide sales tax. Food and some other commodities would be tax free as to help the poor so they don't have a larger dis-proportionally percentage of their income going to things needed to live. It would be consumer commodities and would be a flat sales tax no matter the cost. So yes, you would pay more taxes on a Mercedes rather than a civic, but the percentage of the tax would be the same, derived from the purchase price of the car.

But why should the tax on the mercedes be more than the tax on the civic?
Why not have every car pay the same exact $$$ amount?
Then have every pickup pay the exact same dollar amount.
Then have semis pay the exact same dollar amount. Wouldn't that be more fair?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Yes, that's the way it is assessed. But why? Why should the owner of the $2.5 million house pay more than the owner of a $25,000 house? What more is the owner of the expensive house getting for his money than the owner of the $25,000 house? They both recieve the same services from government right?

So you are saying we take the county (or city) budget, and divide it by the number of parcels of land in the county (or city) to get the amount of tax a property owner pays? (that assumes that every parcel of land uses about the same amount of police, fire and other governmental services, the library, etc.

My county, 500 sq miles, largely rural, but with 7 incorporated municipalities, 300 miles of dirt road (and I do not know how much paved road) and about 17,000 parcels of land (I ought to know exactly, I a tax assessor, but I'm not sure right off hand), divided into the $7 million or so budget equals about $411 a year if I did the math correctly. I'd be happy to take that, compared to the $1800 I pay now. We just do away with all exemptions, no homestead, no conservation/agricultural, historic, etc and everyone pays.

Charles

 

[metal1313]

so what your saying is someone in a 900sqft house should pay the same taxes as somene in a 9k sqft house and that they cost government the same? last i checked a 9k house has also more to burn, costing alot more time and money for the fd to take care of.

and last i checked a civic and a mercedes where not equal in either value, or refinement.

taxes are messed up, if you have the disposable income for a benz dont complain about being taxed more than someone buying a civic. i think my family is over taxed in nj, but i agree that my father earns more, our house is larger, and cars cost more. so we get taxed more than others, yea it would be nice to pay less, and i would like to see the system repaired so that the scale would be more equal, but a flat tax doesnt work. it wasnt too long ago that the richest 1% were taxed 90% of their income, and yet they were still the richest 1%

 

[jmh21586]

So you are saying we take the county (or city) budget, and divide it by the number of parcels of land in the county (or city) to get the amount of tax a property owner pays? (that assumes that every parcel of land uses about the same amount of police, fire and other governmental services, the library, etc.

My county, 500 sq miles, largely rural, but with 7 incorporated municipalities, 300 miles of dirt road (and I do not know how much paved road) and about 17,000 parcels of land (I ought to know exactly, I a tax assessor, but I'm not sure right off hand), divided into the $7 million or so budget equals about $411 a year if I did the math correctly. I'd be happy to take that, compared to the $1800 I pay now. We just do away with all exemptions, no homestead, no conservation/agricultural, historic, etc and everyone pays.

Charles

Pretty much. Does my house of 1500 sqft and four occupants and a value of say $250,000 use the police and fire and other services more than a 1500sqft house with four occupants and a value of $100,000?

I don't see how. So why do we pay different amounts?

In fact, the local trailer park in our town uses more of the police time than any other group or neighborhood, yet pay no property taxes because trailers aren't considered permanent. So they're consuming more of the resources, yet their cost for those resources is the lowest.
IMO, there should be a basic service charge for everyone for fire service, then a use charge when you do need them. Kinda like your electric bill. You pay basic service charges and then you pay for what you use.

Back to the trailer park thing. Maybe in one trailer the family has 6 kids in public schools. Again, paying nothing for a service while at the same time using more of the service. Think they care when a tax levy gets passed for the school system? Think they vote yes for it? Why wouldn't they?
There is a great number of people in this country that have the ability to vote for other peoples tax increases, that will in turn benefit them. Is that right?

Why does a 20 year old pickup, weighing 5000 pounds, belching smoke from a wore out motor, pay less in registration here in MN, than a brand new prius, that weighs less and pollutes less?
Where should your gas taxes and registration taxes and auto sales taxes go?
They should go to the roads. But what is the only part of the vehicle that causes road damage? A combination of the weight of the vehicle multiplied by the number of miles driven. So why aren't auto registration and taxes based on weight and mileage instead of the value of the vehicle? Does a vehicles value cause damage to roads? NO. No it doesn't. So why do higher valued vehicles pay more?

I could go on and on about how f-ed up things are.

 

[RustFarmer]

What is the tax rate people are paying on the assessed value of their land and structures?

Here in Toronto I pay approximately .083% of the total assessed property value IIRC.

In the US it varies quite a bit by state. Texas is the highest at 1.76%. Louisiana is the lowest at 0.14%.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/24078.html

(click on map to enlarge)

Is your decimal point off? Did you mean 0.83%?

 

[jmh21586]

so what your saying is someone in a 900sqft house should pay the same taxes as somene in a 9k sqft house and that they cost government the same? last i checked a 9k house has also more to burn, costing alot more time and money for the fd to take care of.

What are their costs to government? How does a 9k sqft house cost the fire dept more if it never catches fire? (which most houses do not.)

and last i checked a civic and a mercedes where not equal in either value, or refinement.

And how does value of the vehicle affect the roads? Does a road get more damage from an expensive car?

taxes are messed up, if you have the disposable income for a benz dont complain about being taxed more than someone buying a civic.

Out comes the class envy argument. "shut up and pay".
What does me being able to afford a benz have to do with you only being able to afford a civic? And how does that affect the roads?

i think my family is over taxed in nj, but i agree that my father earns more, our house is larger, and cars cost more. so we get taxed more than others, yea it would be nice to pay less, and i would like to see the system repaired so that the scale would be more equal, but a flat tax doesnt work. it wasnt too long ago that the richest 1% were taxed 90% of their income, and yet they were still the richest 1%

What's right is right. Taxing someone 90% is like saying the government did 90% of the work, thus deserving 90% of the profit.

 

[december45]

Last time i was in texas i was HARD pressed to find any place in the state that had a rate less than 1.90+ and most were well above 2 and near the houston/Galveston area they were 3% ....property tax is why we are not living in TX now.

to add to the above conversation on equal property tax, I have a couple of rentals we pay property tax in those states and DO NOT get to vote there, now that is unfair, while those who do not pay property tax (trailer parks etc ) get to make decisions which effect me and my wallet.

its pretty clear that we are all being taxed too much, and we have little or NO say in how it is spent/wasted, this money gets spent freely and often by people who did NOT earn it.

If our tax dollar was not being wasted the above mention $411.00 would be plenty and most counties could easily provide the services with half the money they get now.

where does the whole idea of tax the heck out of the rich come from, they earned it didnt they, they didnt take that money from you or the guy down the street, if a guy works hard why is he penalized for it, i dont get this kind of mentality. If you work hard and earn something why do some feel it is their responsibility to try to take it and give to others?

 

[trbomax]

If you live outside a municipality and own any livestock (animals that are not "domesticated" ),you can build a shop building as an agricultural building. AG buildings are not taxed,at least around here.Obviously it couldnt be attached to your house.Doesnt matter if you are zoned ag or not,horses,goats,cows, what ever qualifies because you are useing the shop to maintain vehicles and property necesisary for the animals well being.

 

[idoine in toronto]

In the US it varies quite a bit by state. Texas is the highest at 1.76%. Louisiana is the lowest at 0.14%.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/24078.html

(click on map to enlarge)

Is your decimal point off? Did you mean 0.83%?

Yes you are correct. Last year I paid ~.83%.

 

[Falcon67]

In the US it varies quite a bit by state. Texas is the highest at 1.76%. Louisiana is the lowest at 0.14%.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/24078.html

(click on map to enlarge)

Is your decimal point off? Did you mean 0.83%?

And that map says nothing, really. It's just averages of some sort. Real estate taxes here in TX are based on $x.** per $100 in valuation. Not a percentage. City tax in my city is .6999 per 100, Merkel School District is $1.06, Taylor County is .4722. Our Homestead exemption is $15,000 of accessed value applied only to school taxes. If our house was worth $120,000 then City tax is $839.88 and the school tax will be $1113 (120K - 15K). County tax is $566.64 for a total yearly assessment of $2519.52. Very easy to figure your bill. Each entity sets the rate, the county assess all properties. AFAIK, this applies to all cities in Texas.

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Property taxes are local taxes. Local officials value your property, set your tax rates, and collect your taxes. However, Texas law governs how the process works.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In TaylorCounty, property taxes are based on tax rates set by the various local governments (taxing units) that levy a tax and on the value of the property. The valuation or appraisal process, which is performed by the Taylor County Appraisal District, serves to allocate the tax burden among property owners.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The property tax provides more tax dollars for local government services in Texas than any other source. Property taxes help pay for public schools, city streets, county roads, police, fire protection, and many other services. "[/FONT]

Note that I don't see how it can ever be the same for everyone in the state or even in a city or county. Every city, every county has it's own issues, needs and requirements. Using 2009 figures, Dallas County covers 879 square miles with about 2.45 million people. One hell of a tax base. Harris County (Houston) has 4m people in 1728 sq/mi. Compare that to Fisher County, which covers 901 square miles with a population of approximately 3900 people. Who pays for what out there? They could hide an you couldn't find them LOL. Even out here in the "sticks" - I live in Taylor county which has about 127K people in 915 square miles. Next door to the west is Nolan county at 911 sq/miles with only 15K people. Get down to the city - In Taylor county, Abilene has about 115K people. Merkel is 15 miles to the west and is the second largest city in Taylor county with 2600 people. (note that leaves about 9400 people in the rest of those 915 sq/mi) The distribution isn't equitable, taxes can't be either IMHO.

 

[milkovich]

I could go on and on about how f-ed up things are.

If there were no property taxes and it was just a fee (like ireland) it'd be even more screwed up. Imagine 60-100 year mortgages and only the ultra rich owning property because it'd be a better investment then gold. You'd be living in your benz or renting from a feudal lord since 8 robber barons would own most of the country.

The systems not perfect and you bring up some good points. The gas tax was supposed to be the great equalizer and to a degree it is. Still, you have to agree a strong middle class is more important to America then not compromising an inch on your extremist free market capitalism ideal.

 

[dougmac]

The county here used a standard valuation calculation of $23.00 per square ft. for garage space when issuing my permit (1997). The permit value was $30,000 for the 1300 square foot garage.

When the assessor showed up after the project was completed, it appears that he essentially used the same calculation because it increased my assessed value by $30,000.

You can actually go to our county website and check the value per square ft that they use for the calculations. Today it is $38.66 per square foot for garages.

 

[santagary]

Kevin, I would make an appointment with your tax asessors office and ask those very questions...at least you'll know their rationale for screwing you.

 

[rasit]

My property assesment went up $21K..... so far I have $33K into it and just guessing, my place is worth $60K more than it was before construction. The assesment was off of my 'bare bones' plan and the tax man came out just after my first rough in inspection. I got hit with an interim tax bill before I was finished adding a bathroom,insulation,drywall ect. I paid the bill willingly and never saw him again.......