Garage Build - Figuring out the Details

[SydnCoop]

New to the forum, but have been lurking lately as I'm building a Pole Barn (or maybe stick built...seems most would likely sway me that way). I have limited knowledge on Pole Building / Stick Built and I'm trying to spec out as much as I can in advance. I'm hoping I can get some input from the fine folks on this forum. To clarify, I'm not married to any ideas and open to ideas of all those with much more experience than myself.

To start I we had to have a significant amount of dirt moved to make room for the building. The South side of our prop was slopped maybe 10' off the driveway, then levelled out, then gradually sloped and finally again dipped down into the woods. I had an excavation company come in dig into the slop next to the driveway and level the fairly flat part. The north side of the ground is virgin ground, and maybe 1/2 to 3/4 towards the woodline there is fill. I estimate at the deepest part the fill is 3'-4'. My first dilemma came when I realized the fill was not compacted, so I either wouldn't be able to have a slab in the entire building, or I'd have to dig it up and compact it. I've gone back n forth on slabbing the side I know is good and digging it up to do it right (more on that later). For now I have a soil testing engineer coming out to test the soil compaction. My main question here is can anyone tell me a rough idea of the cost to dig up the soil and compact?

In reading these forums, and talking with others, it always seems everyone forgets to do something, or wishes they had done something different. It's given me a fair bit of paralysis by analysis. I'm hoping I can talk through the details here to ease my mind.

Purpose - The building itself will be used for mainly storage of cars/ trucks, boat, maybe a camper, tractor. Would like to have an area to put some gym equip., and would like a loft space.

General Construction Notes:
These are notes I've come up with so far from reading others posts, etc. Nothing set in stone, but want to finalize.

Size

48 x 64. I'd like to increase the 48 to maybe 56 if possible.

Construction
My general idea is to split the building in two with a dividing wall and condition one half of the space. I'd prefer to have the slab cover the entire building, but open to slab in conditioned space and rock in the nonconditioned space. I have not decided on Pole Barn vs. Stick Built. I guess I was originally set on a Pole Barn, but reading many posts has me considering otherwise. If going the Pole Barn would Permacolumns be suggested?

This building will sit with the gabled end on the north and south with all large doors on the east side. The way my land lays out I will only have access to pull vehicles into one side of the building. My general notes & questions below, feel free to make suggestions, pick them apart, or add to items I would want to spec out.

• 16’ Side Walls
• Overhang – 1’ all the way around
• Gutters run to back of building.
• Wainscoting on everything but the back.
• Door height & Width? four doors 14 x 14
• Overhead door vs Roll up door?
• Single man door on Northeast side
• Hose Bib
• Cupola -Add two

Floor / Slab

• Vapor barrier floor
• Plastic
• Insulating foam board
• Pex tubing for radiant heat
• Floor drains (Been looking but haven't found regs on drains. If oil/water separator required can I put in drain and cap it to be cleaned out? I live in the country with septic tank)
• Sink drain
• Water line to sink and exterior hose bib
• Concrete Thickness 4” or 6” ?? Depends on what’s required for lift. ( Would like lift that can handle F250.)

Power

• I assume the power company will need to bring electric to the building instead of taking it from the house?

HVAC

• I work in commercial HVAC so I'm not too worried about getting the equipment and figuring out the load, but curious what others have used for such a space

My self imposed budget for the entire build is $100K.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[couch67]

Hi, welcome to the forum. Looks like a good build, make sure to post lots of photos. There are tons of threads with similar builds, I would suggest going through as much of them as possible before committing to anything.

For the compaction, maybe look into having someone come in to steamroll the pad. 4' might be a stretch though. I have read that wetting the filled area, and given enough time, it will compact on its own. I have no direct experience there.

For electrical feed - depends on what your electrical plan is for the building, and what service you have at the house.

Concrete thickness - 4" is plenty for most uses, and the lift area will normally get beefed up. Its best you have a lift identified, and have the location planned so you can pour these footings ahead of getting the slab placed.

 

[Zeke]

No idea on cost of compacting but the first thing that came to mind was to go ahead and dig footings into virgin soil on the non compacted side along with the rest if you are building stick. There will be some obvious backfill at that point so I'd dig down 2' of loose area of the the 4 and start using a jumping jack compacting the first 2' of the back fill. You may need a smaller compacter for the deeper backfill next to the wall. After watering and all the usual compacting rigmarole, I'd start filling back up and compacting each 6" or so.

You can always get a soils report for guidance and you can core the compacted backfill to verify. The reason for building the foundation wall is to limit the amount of backfill area and have it backed by the new wall. If you go pole barn you will need a retaining wall on the loose side which is basically the same thing.

If this is a large area and hand work is too much, then you need some more equipment. Maybe a backhoe to move the loose soil before putting it back in layers. You will end up with less soil so you may have to scrape some from the high side over to the new compaction. This will make room for your gravel fill.

But I'm not there so armchair engineering at its best.

 

[jack stand]

On your questionable fill...
Having a footer and a masonry or poured wall down to good ground would be the right thing, and since you're heating the slab it would give you the opportunity to insulate this wall below grade. This will contribute to the overall insulation "package" and save you in energy costs.
Is this condition on a long wall?
This would make it a wall that's carrying the roof and the loft you mentioned. This is quite a bit different than a gable (shorter) wall in terms of importance.
Typically any organic layer is removed and then you start seeking suitable virgin soil to support the structure. To remove to this depth and put it back in proper compacted lifts may substantially offset the cost of the above footer and wall.
Good luck, it sounds like a great building.

 

[billconner]

If you're building this yourself, so $100,000 is materials only, you might be able to do it for $32/sf. I stick built a 28 x 32 this past year, rough sawn "Amish wood", a
no heating nor insulation, and gravel floor for now, all no cost labor, $22/sf.

It seems to me when you don't embed the posts in a post frame building, you start to rapidly loose the economy of post frame. Sounds like you're thinking 8' post spacing, something like $8000 (28 @ $300) in Perma Columns, and you still have to have lateral spacing.

 

[nadogail]

Garages always seem to cost more and take longer than expected.

 

[billconner]

Garages always seem to cost more and take longer than expected.

No $hit! Took me a year planning and a year to build a simple 28 x 32, cold storage.

 

[PirateTurner]

You might spend some time reviewing RR (Rural Renovators) Buildings Youtube.

 

[racecougar]

For now I have a soil testing engineer coming out to test the soil compaction. My main question here is can anyone tell me a rough idea of the cost to dig up the soil and compact?

Getting the compaction study done is the right thing to do. Providing an estimate as to the cost to remove and compact the area over the internet without knowledge of the site, volume of soil that must be removed, etc. is a total shot in the dark.

Construction
I have not decided on Pole Barn vs. Stick Built. I guess I was originally set on a Pole Barn, but reading many posts has me considering otherwise. If going the Pole Barn would Permacolumns be suggested?

Consider Panel Frame construction. https://bblusa.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BBL_PanelFrame.pdf

 

[racecougar]

• Overhead door vs Roll up door?

You'll regret roll up doors, especially if you're heating/cooling the space.

Floor / Slab

• Floor drains (Been looking but haven't found regs on drains. If oil/water separator required can I put in drain and cap it to be cleaned out? I live in the country with septic tank)
• Sink drain
• Water line to sink and exterior hose bib
• Concrete Thickness 4” or 6” ?? Depends on what’s required for lift. ( Would like lift that can handle F250.)

You'll need to check with your AHJ on the drains (both floor and sink). This varies by area.

If you're going with a 2-post lift, I recommend picking out the lift and its placement before you pour your floor. No need to make the entire slab 6" thick.

If you're going with a 4-post lift, there are plenty of options that will lift a F250 without trouble and work with a 4" pad.

Power

• I assume the power company will need to bring electric to the building instead of taking it from the house?

That depends on available capacity at your house, needed capacity at the building, ease of pulling from the house or the pole, and personal preference.

HVAC

• I work in commercial HVAC so I'm not too worried about getting the equipment and figuring out the load, but curious what others have used for such a space

I use a Gree 24K minisplit to heat/cool my 30x60x13 building across the river from you. It works well.

My self imposed budget for the entire build is $100K.

How much of this project will you be able to do yourself?

 

[SydnCoop]

Update - Had to remove about 7' of fill on one side to get down to organics. Soils Engineer on site to test as the soil was compacted with a roller. Feel better about the soil, now on to other items.

I've seen many posts about using the following inactive link for information on building a pole barn, can anyone tell me if the site moved or if this information is stored anywhere accessible? If not is there another active link with similar info?

http://www.pole-barn.info/pole-building-construction.html

To clarify the $100K budget won't include electric / concrete/ heating/cooling, nor finishing.

I'm worried about the county not being a big fan of drains in the floor, or at least worrying about where they are headed. Do many use some type of trench instead? More maintenance without the county permitting headache.

Guess now is the time to dig into stick built vs pole building.

 

[jaw22w]

To clarify the $100K budget won't include electric / concrete/ heating/cooling, nor finishing.

I'm glad you posted that. I was just about to tell you that you were dreaming! I just finished a 30x40x12. Insulated, walls and ceiling finished and well wired. $50/sq.ft. All in. But we did most of the work ourselves. The only labor I paid for was the erection of the basic structure and the application of the spray foam on the walls.