Garage Build - Internal Combustion

[shocksystems]

Hello All. I thought I would make my first post on my garage build currently underway. Following up on guidance I read here somewhere I am giving the project a name (Internal Combustion) so people can keep it straight from other projects.

It is a conventional building (at least conventional for these parts in NE). Stick built on a foundation (2x6 studs). The building is 20 x 37 and the walls are roughly 16 foot tall. The slab is 6" of 4000# concrete with nylon mesh with radiant heat tubing in place under the slab. It will have 12 windows, 2 man doors and 1 12x12 garage door when complete.

As dollars allow I hope to put up a mezzanine in the rear of the garage over my planned workshop. I plan on putting a 4 post rack in the garage as well.

The building is not as big as I originally planned. However local zoning ordinances changed my plans. All in all I think it might have been for the best though because my dollars would have been incredibly stretched and I was starting to cut corners pretty aggressively before I scaled things down.

The weather is having some impact on the progress of the construction but things are moving along.

It would be an understatement to say I am excited about the garage. It generally occupies my thoughts all of the time and I can't wait until it gets enclosed. As everyone says this site has a wealth of information and has been incredibly helpful. People here are great.

I am posting tons of pictures on a website tracking the build but I will post key pictures related to the build in this post.

The plot plan

The proposed layout

Excavation

Foundation

Radiant Heat Tubes

Framing

Current state with trusses in place

My garage website
http://www.shocksystems.com/garage

Cheers!

Jim

 

[V-10 Killer]

That looks like a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to seeing it come together.

 

[SWA Guy]

V-10 Killer,

I am completely impressed! Though it's not as big as you would have wanted (is it ever?), it looks like you will be able to fit almost anything in there to work on, with space to work around it too! It looks great!

What type exterior are you planning? Roof? How about the driveway? Oh so many questions!

Please keep the pics coming .

Thanks,
Guy

 

[SWA Guy]

Stupid me. I meant shocksystems, not V-10 Killer. Sorry.

 

[snorvet]

Looks Great! The 12x12 door gives you a lot of options

 

[bmwpower]

That place looks pretty cool. I like the idea of a loft...gets you 260 more sqft of floor space. What's the height under the loft?

 

[shocksystems]

Thanks everyone.

bmwpower: I am expecting at least 7 foot of clearance under the loft/mezzanine. It was almost an afterthought but I think it will become one of the best features of the garage when completed.

SWA Guy: Hardie plank siding, pre colored a kind of blueish grey. Plans to reside the house someday in the same color. For this year I think I will cover the driveway in the recycled asphalt material and see how it goes. After debating whether or not to go with asphalt shingles or a metal roof I ended up choosing 45 year asphalt shingles instead. I really like metal roofs but I am concerned about keeping the cost down and the asphalt shingles are cheaper.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[JMURiz]

Awesome plan for a project that comes in under 750 sq/ft!
The loft idea is great, you even planed window for each level of the loft, very cool!

Looks like a great layout for an actual workshop garage.

 

[shocksystems]

Quick update. Progress continues. (never fast enough though )

Roof is done.

First floor windows are in.

Next steps are to finish the windows and the Typar paper and then the doors.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[thefairlaneman]

Its truely a first class job . The windows add alot to the outside . My concern would be the windowa being an easy access point for any would be thief. What plans do you have to secure the place? A big rottie ,silent alarm or what?

 

[shocksystems]

Fairlaneman:

Thanks for the compliment. I haven't decided what to do about security. I think you are right though, it does become quite a target. I need to come up with something and a loud alarm would not fit in the neighborhood.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[Woogeroo]

Its truely a first class job . The windows add alot to the outside . My concern would be the windowa being an easy access point for any would be thief. What plans do you have to secure the place? A big rottie ,silent alarm or what?[/QU

You could also consider planting some prickly and thorny type bushes/hedges around the windows to keep folks at bay.

It won't stop a determined thief, but it'll help keep folks honest.

Also keeps folks from snooping too much.



-W

 

[shocksystems]

Here is the latest update. All of the windows are in. The trim is around each window and trim is on each of the 4 corners of the garage. Siding has started and siding the rear wall is complete. The siding on one of the side walls is in process.

I am excited as the siding really makes a difference in how the building looks. I suspect my neighbors are relieved too. Until now they have been calling it a fire station or a church (one neighbor asked when I was ordering the steeple) but it is all in good humor. They have been very good about the whole project. I can tell none of them understand why I want a garage this big, let alone why I wanted it bigger.

More pictures at my website http://www.shocksystems.com/garage

Cheers!

Jim

 

[z28toz06]

Nice building. Tell me how many loops do you have in that radiant heat system? I only see 2 pex tubes coming up in the corner it looks like. A 20x37 foot building I would imagine would need at least 3 loops maybe 4. Also what did you use for insulation under the floor and around the sides, between the foundation and the floor?

 

[JMURiz]

A true car house, impressed by every new picture.

 

[Don T]

Wow! That's one nice looking building. I don't know if you said, but what type of boiler are you planning to use for the heated floor.

 

[shocksystems]

Nice building. Tell me how many loops do you have in that radiant heat system? I only see 2 pex tubes coming up in the corner it looks like. A 20x37 foot building I would imagine would need at least 3 loops maybe 4. Also what did you use for insulation under the floor and around the sides, between the foundation and the floor?

Z28:

Thanks for the compliment.

I was actually away on a trip for work to India and China at the stage of the project when the concrete work and radiant heat was done I do not travel much for work and of course it had to happen during the garage build. My wife took pictures while I was away and my son would upload them to the Internet so I was checking on the progress each day.

Here is what I can tell:

There are 4 tubes coming up in the corner (the black tubes). The blue tubes are hot and cold lines from the house. I assume the 4 tubes means 2 loops?

Here is a picture I just took of the corner:

Here is a picture that was taken before the slab was poured and before the radiant heat was put in. It looks like they used the foam insulation around the sides.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[shocksystems]

Wow! That's one nice looking building. I don't know if you said, but what type of boiler are you planning to use for the heated floor.

Don:

Thanks. I have not decided what boiler to use. Once the exterior of the garage is done I am going to look at my checkbook and determine what I can afford to do next. I tend to be an oil heat guy. I have oil heat in the house and I like it.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[shocksystems]

A true car house, impressed by every new picture.

Thanks Nathan. I think the garage will look nicer than the house when it is done. The pressure is building to improve the look of the house now. I got lucky with the windows for the garage because my builder had 12 left over from a job a few years ago and consequently I got them really cheap. I like a lot of light and it does give it more of a house look.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[ol55]

Looks great, what kind of siding did you use?

 

[C_F]

Looks really good, I especially love all the big trees you have around your yard. I wish I had big trees like that, I should sell my house & move elswehere.

 

[shocksystems]

Looks great, what kind of siding did you use?

Thanks. I went with Hardie siding. Seems to be pretty popular. I do not like vinyl that much myself but I still wanted something relatively low maintenance. The Hardie siding seems to be very popular. Many people on this site have mentioned they use it. You buy it pre-finished with color and they claim it won't need painting for 25 years (although you can paint it if you want).

Cheers!

Jim

 

[z28toz06]

Z28:

Thanks for the compliment.

I was actually away on a trip for work to India and China at the stage of the project when the concrete work and radiant heat was done I do not travel much for work and of course it had to happen during the garage build. My wife took pictures while I was away and my son would upload them to the Internet so I was checking on the progress each day.

Here is what I can tell:

There are 4 tubes coming up in the corner (the black tubes). The blue tubes are hot and cold lines from the house. I assume the 4 tubes means 2 loops?

Here is a picture I just took of the corner:

Here is a picture that was taken before the slab was poured and before the radiant heat was put in. It looks like they used the foam insulation around the sides.

Cheers!

Jim

Jim, Each loop shouldn't be more than 250 feet or so, give or take. Looking at your picture and guesstimating loop length based on your dimensions, you have about 333 foot loops, which is a bit much. What happens with radiant is by the time the "hot water" in the loop gets to the other end of the loop it gets cold. Make sure when you connect the heat tubes that the beginning of the loop is closest to the outside wall. this will put the cooler end of the lines toward the middle of the building where there won't be as much cold for the heat to over come. You may have to run the water temperature a little higher than normal to compensate for the longer loops.

 

[shocksystems]

z28toz06: Thanks for the tip, I will keep that in mind when I connect the heat tubes. Cheers! Jim

 

[shocksystems]

So now the siding is basically done. There are a few small spots that need to be addressed but otherwise the siding is complete. The transom window was installed in the front so all of the windows are in.

I think my next steps will be 1) Garage door 2) Electrical service 3) driveway/excavation work 4) insulation and 5) interior walls.

In addition I need to decide what to do with the floor. I contacted someone about polishing the concrete, I will probably at least get a quote before I decide. He also does epoxy floors so maybe I will have him quote it each way.

I am leaning towards corrugated metal for the walls. I just can't see the logic to put up anything more expensive. Also I think it will tolerate more abuse.

I am also leaning towards running the electrical circuits through EMT. This will prevent me from having to open up the walls when I want to make changes. I do not mind the "look" either.

I have not decided on a style of garage door yet (haven't looked). I suspect I may more limited options because it is 12x12.

Cheers!

Jim

http://www.shocksystems.com/garage

 

[RickP330]

Hey Dude,
That looks great! I'm fed up with the vinyl all the siders are pushing around here. The stuff really is garbage. I researched it quite a bit and Fiber Cement siding really is the way to go. I did a small section on the rear of my garage just to try it out and it's awsome. I'll do my whole hose once things settle down in my garage

I have two qestions though, what did they use for the trim boards? Can you get a few close up shots like around the windows in the corners, how did they miter them?
Also, how did they seal the ends of the Hardy panel where it meets the trim board?
Looking great, keep the good work. FWIW, I can't beleive you would use corregated tin on the inside walls? A garage that nice - I'd rock the walls and paint. That's just me though, I love what you are doing.
One other point, if you Boiler in the house has enough capacity, can you dig a trench and run a feed and return line to the garage and just treat it like a zone off you home?
Regards,
Rick

 

[JMURiz]

Looks amazing, love the design!

 

[comp]

good read also

 

[shocksystems]

It has been a while since I updated this thread. Disappointing that I do not have more to report. Here are the recent highlights:

1) The garage door is in

I custom ordered a door for the 12x12 opening. I wanted something with good insulation and windows. I wanted the windows at such a height that I could turn and see who was in the driveway when I was working in there. I also wanted a high lift track and opener so that I could take full advantage of the height of the garage. The door is a Garaga brand. The opener is a Liftmaster.

I was surprised how difficult it was to get someone to do the door. Everyone in the trades tells me things are slow but it took a while before I could find a responsive garage door vendor. Once I ordered the door it took a while for the door to arrive.

When I first saw the door I thought I made a mistake, I felt like there was way too many windows considering I have the transom window above. Once some time passed it grew on me. I am happy with it now and it did achieve the functionality I wanted.

2) The electrical service is into the building

This took a long time for several reasons. First was that I wanted to switch and have 200amp electrical service brought into the garage first and then feed the house from the garage 100amp. This would have required a new pole. After a bunch of back and forth between the electrician and the power company we determined it would take 30 days for the new pole, up to $1500 for the pole and be a lot more money in cable and piping. I decided it wasn't worth it. Being so concerned about having inadequate power in the garage I then asked about increasing the power to the house beyond 200amp so that I could feed more than 100amp to the garage. Apparently to exceed a 200amp service to the house I would need to "justify" it. As I have no specific equipment (yet) I decided to just take the easy and faster route and upgrade the house to 200amp and feed the garage 100amp. Once this was decided the electrician went to work quickly. I am planning on doing the runs inside the garage now that the hard work is done.

3) Entryway lights installed (necessary for inspection)

Apparently the building inspector wants to see lights installed at each entryway before he signs off. This surprised me because I think as a garage it is not even required to have electricity. Anyway, the building inspection should happen Monday or Tuesday next week.

And the related pictures:

Cheers!

Jim

 

[comp]

 

[bluesman2a]

Looking GOOD!!!

What are your thoughts on the Liftmaster opener (you're the 1st I've seen with a pro series)? Happy with it? Unhappy? Others you looked into?

 

[shocksystems]

Looking GOOD!!!

What are your thoughts on the Liftmaster opener (you're the 1st I've seen with a pro series)? Happy with it? Unhappy? Others you looked into?

My initial thoughts about the opener are that I really like it. My biggest surprise was how quickly it raises the door. Not sure why, but I was expecting it would be much slow. Time will yell how it holds up. I never considered anything seriously other than Liftmaster. I have heard people say good things about Zap openers though.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[PAToyota]

I then asked about increasing the power to the house beyond 200amp so that I could feed more than 100amp to the garage. Apparently to exceed a 200amp service to the house I would need to "justify" it.

Hmmm... Guess that varies by location - I had no problem getting them to provide 400amps (C320) to the house for my shop build.

Apparently the building inspector wants to see lights installed at each entryway before he signs off. This surprised me because I think as a garage it is not even required to have electricity.

It is funny how you can open a can of worms. You aren't required to have electricity but since you do you have to meet an additional set of requirements... Seen it happen many times. "You mean if I didn't have electricity, I wouldn't need lights at each door?" "Yep..." "But since I do have electricity then I DO need lights at each door?" "Yep..."

 

[tanky321]

What kind of equipment are you planning on running in there? I think one big misconception among people is that if they have a welder, a lift, a lathe, and a bridgeport that 100A wouldn't be enough.

You might have needs I dont know of but for the example above, who would run the welder as the same time as the bridgeport? Granted the possibility is there, but is it justifiable to spend the extra money?

Just out of curiosity, did the electrician do a load calc for you?

Sorry if im coming off as a *****, i don't mean too!!

 

[PAToyota]

What kind of equipment are you planning on running in there? I think one big misconception among people is that if they have a welder, a lift, a lathe, and a bridgeport that 100A wouldn't be enough.

TIG welder is on its own 100amp breaker, so 100amp service would be a problem right there... Then add an 80amp for plasma and 40amp for air compressor, which do run together... Plus lighting and other loads... In the wood shop my father often works with me so a couple 220V machines may be in use at the same time along with the 220V dust collector and the air compressor...

You might have needs I dont know of but for the example above, who would run the welder as the same time as the bridgeport? Granted the possibility is there, but is it justifiable to spend the extra money?

See above for combinations of tools and equipment...

Just out of curiosity, did the electrician do a load calc for you?

Actually, yes. Although familiar with the electrical end of things as an architect, I ran everything by an electrical engineer to have my loads and circuit size calculations double checked.

 

[tanky321]

TIG welder is on its own 100amp breaker, so 100amp service would be a problem right there... Then add an 80amp for plasma and 40amp for air compressor, which do run together... Plus lighting and other loads... In the wood shop my father often works with me so a couple 220V machines may be in use at the same time along with the 220V dust collector and the air compressor...



See above for combinations of tools and equipment...



Actually, yes. Although familiar with the electrical end of things as an architect, I ran everything by an electrical engineer to have my loads and circuit size calculations double checked.

I thought this was shocksystems garage? I wasn't saying that talking to you...

 

[PAToyota]

I thought this was shocksystems garage? I wasn't saying that talking to you...

Since you responded below my post concerning my 400amp service and garage equipment, your comment seemed to be addressing that. My mistake. Further, I was merely attempting to illustrate that there are people here that do easily require more than 100amp service to a shop. No need to get your knickers in a twist.

 

[shocksystems]

What kind of equipment are you planning on running in there? I think one big misconception among people is that if they have a welder, a lift, a lathe, and a bridgeport that 100A wouldn't be enough.

You might have needs I dont know of but for the example above, who would run the welder as the same time as the bridgeport? Granted the possibility is there, but is it justifiable to spend the extra money?

Just out of curiosity, did the electrician do a load calc for you?

Sorry if im coming off as a *****, i don't mean too!!

Tanky: You are not coming off as a *****. I debated the load question a lot. My electrician insisted 100amp would be more than I would ever need. As he put it if I need more than 100AMP I won't want to pay the bill. The truth is I do not have any equipment to justify more than 100AMP service at this time. The big question for me was, what *could* happen in the future. The never ending theme of the conversations on this board seems to be, "do it right the first time or you will regret it". I even posted about the electrical load and solicited feedback on what people thought I should do. PAToyota was one of the people who made me really think about the potential for load. I think he indicated he had one welder alone that uses a 100amp breaker. I have money now to build the garage. I suspect I will not be in this fortunate financial situation if/when I need to upgrade things in the future. My son is 11 years old now. I hope (expect) he will be a big user of the garage in the future. Unlikely but possible that he, his friends and I will all be working in the garage at the same time. Regardless you can see that I went the simple 100AMP route after all. Saving the money was a big consideration, now I can use the money to buy tools, furnace, cabinets and etc! Thanks for the feedback though, I like all the feedback I can get.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[tanky321]

I just wanted to get that point out there though, because it seems like if someone can get a 600A 1Phase service there down for it. Even though they'll probably never ever ever even need 200A. But if it is justified then go for it!

Here's a 1600A 3Phase Breaker I worked on installing, if some of these guys could get there hands on these, they'd put it in!!

As far as my knicker's in a bunch.... Can we keep the language post 1980?

 

[PAToyota]

I just wanted to get that point out there though, because it seems like if someone can get a 600A 1Phase service there down for it. Even though they'll probably never ever ever even need 200A. But if it is justified then go for it!

I wouldn't say that people are going to go for oversized services just for the geewhiz factor. I had initially looked into 3-phase only because I knew that 3-phase equipment often went cheaper second hand because not as many people could use it. Then I got a lesson in demand charges and a whole bunch of other stuff!

But even amongst my woodworker friends, I know a number of people making due with undersized services since their shops are just in the basement of their home. Flip on the tablesaw and all the lights in the house dim... That sort of thing. We're talking people with older houses and 60 to 100amp service...

Even my parents' house - they had a 200amp panel installed because my father had a shop in the basement. But at the time (early seventies) the electric company "thought they knew better" and only ran 100amp service to the house. All the time I was growing up I remember the house lights dimming if my father was in the shop. It wasn't until I was in college that my father inadvertently found out about the 100amp service and had it upgraded. No more dimming problems...

As far as my knicker's in a bunch.... Can we keep the language post 1980?

Considering the members from HAMB and such, I figured that was more than appropriate here...