Garage Build: Major headway, but major setback issue and variance = FAIL

[onthefence777]

Hello,

I must say this is the ONE coolest forum I have ever visited. Also, sorry if this gets a little long...lots on my mind.

I have started a couple of different threads in regard to my garage build in planning, and have gotten great advice along the way. My last thread about my plan had to do with utility interference. I got down to the bottom of the biggest forseeable problem today - the overhead power lines, namely my neighbors. Basicially, my neighbors power line cuts over a good portion of my yard.

So, a very knowledgeable guy from the power company came over today and gave me a rough estimate of $1500 out the door to place a clearance pole at the property line and move the meter to my planned garage. A bit more than I had hoped (~$1000 or less), but I should definately be able to fit it into my budget - it is way less than I was afraid of.

Directly after, I went to the county planning dept and asked about a variance on building up to the property line at the alley instead of 5 foot setback. Apparently I missed the boat, because 3 years ago it was $175 to ask the commission. Today it would cost $3,000!!!!!!! http://garagejournal.com/forum/images/smilies/lol_hitting.gif

A close friend suggests I should rethink the whole build, that maybe there will be another place I would like better, and I should save for that. I have been complaining to him because of people messing with my two cars - trying to siphon fuel namely. Which is exactly why I want to build a garage - to keep them safe from the daring, prying hands of the tweakers.

It's true, I would really love to live in the middle of nowhere - but the bottom line is I have to work, I don't like a long commute, and I do have a good job closeby. I don't have anywhere near enough to retire in the next ten years or anything like that. I like to think that I'm still young at 26 and have time, lol.

But I have been bummed about not having a proper place to work on my vehicles. I just don't count the outdoors as a good place for what I like to do, although I have and will do it in a pinch. For whatever reason, fixing, maintaining, and modifying cars and trucks is my biggest hobby that I have missed out on since I got this house and lost a proper garage. The garage I have now is tiny @ 9'x19'x9' - my truck is too long to physicially fit @22' and the 2 post lift I have just wont work in it. I basicially use it as my office that has a workbench and bay door.

My lot is 60x120. My planned garage is an L shape, long part being 17x31x(16 high walls, maybe a second story funds permitting???). The small piece of the L would be around 12x15 with a short and narrow breezeway connecting to the back door of the existing garage. This would add ~ 700 sq ft to my 950 sq ft house. The breezeway is almost required for attachment, as there is a 10ft setback between buildings when detached - wont work with my build site. My house has a low slope/flat roof at about 9'. Heres a rough sketch kind off scale.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

So what do you guys think about my plan, any general advice tips, or suggestions, especially when it comes to attaching a tall peak roof building to a low, flat roof building. And Is it a worthy endeavor to build this addition? The pro's outweigh the cons by far in my list, and I suppose not many here on a garage forum will really argue against it, but I'm just trying to get as much feedback as possible.

Thanks

 

[robertlynk]

1 What state do you live in
2 My understanding is that based on court cases they can only charge you a fee based on actual costs for time spent on the application.
3 Search county records for previous variances similar to yours and note all that was involved and get all relative information together then decide if you want to proceed.
4 They are a gubberment agency not a for profit business so they can not get over and above fees

 

[onthefence777]

1 What state do you live in
2 My understanding is that based on court cases they can only charge you a fee based on actual costs for time spent on the application.
3 Search county records for previous variances similar to yours and note all that was involved and get all relative information together then decide if you want to proceed.
4 They are a gubberment agency not a for profit business so they can not get over and above fees

Shhhh, they're listening. LOL. Seriously though, theres no way I'm going to risk sparking a fire on something like this. Even if I won, I'd still lose because I bet they would make my life hell in every other way they could think of. The nail that sticks up is the one to get hammered down...

Thanks for your reply anyhow!

 

[Kevin54]

Without seeing pics of the house itself, is there a reason that you can't attach the new garage directly to the old garage and forgo that small area between the new and old? That is just wasted space. If you have a flat roof, consider using premade trusses and add a sloped roof. For one a flat roof is prone to leaks. Also you would save money from building a breezeway between the two and that money could go for something else.

 

[Al Bundy]

I'm with Kevin, add on to the old garage. Seems like a no brainer.

 

[Wingnut65]

I'd reconsider the commute from a safer neighborhood with no worries VS the zoning ordinance and regulatory hassles that would still give you the same concerns nearby, even if your car was secured in the new garage.

A friend gave us good advice when we were house shopping, we can do anything we wanted to change a house - remodel, add on, landscape, anything - but we can't change the neighborhood. So, a new garage would still give the same neighborhood conditions, only they would have a door to get through first.

Just a thought...

 

[Cryptic1911]

I would skip the yellow part, slide the "new" garage up to the old one, and maybe have it wrap around into some of the yellow area, but just make it an extension of what's there now. I think you could raise the roof on the old garage if it's flat, like make it slightly higher in the front, so it pitches to the back, and put in some drainage

 

[bczygan]

Agree with all the above. Let's see structure of existing structures and lots of photos.
Plus......why do YOU have to set clearance pole for neighbors service. I would accidentally have something fall on it and pull it down. Then refuse to let the power co. put it over my property. Their problem=their cost.

 

[jake26]

In today's housing environment, selling is near impossible. However, building onto a small lot in a bad neighborhood will never net you a good return on your investment. Location, Location, Location, or be the cheapest house in the neighborhood is the best way to build equity in your home.

 

[Zeke]

Around here no service lines may cross another property. Too bad you don't have that advantage there. I agree with the others, build only what suits the house and the neighborhood. Expanding the existing garage is something to think about.

How about putting a drive through door in the back of the expansion and putting the lift behind outside? You could put a canopy over it and use it as a carport.

Get some security lights and some fencing. Get a dog.

 

[Macgyver_ga]

It's true, I would really love to live in the middle of nowhere - but the bottom line is I have to work, I don't like a long commute, and I do have a good job closeby. I don't have anywhere near enough to retire in the next ten years or anything like that. I like to think that I'm still young at 26 and have time, lol.

Look around and find a place that might be little further out but has the same commute timewise to work. To give you an example, my old house was a little over 3 miles from my work and it took me 15-20 minutes to get to and from work due to traffic. I bought a house about 17 miles north up the interstate, giving me a 21 mile commute and my new commute still took me 20 minutes to get to work. I pretty much kept the same commute time but moved out to a much safer and quieter area.

 

[Kev442]

A rule around here is that you cannot cover more than 45% of your lot. Check into that before getting your hopes up.

 

[onthefence777]

I didn't buy this house 6 months ago as an investment. At this time I have no plans on moving anywhere. I bought this house to have a place to live and I looked for a long time to find the best place I could that I would be happy with for some time to come - namely long enough so my brother, who is autistic on a mild level, can get through college and maybe someday start his own life. My parents have passed so taking care of him has passed the responsibility to me.

Its generally a good neighborhood, close to a college, the freeway and my work. the house is small which means easy for me to keep up. Yes I've had two instances where people came from bad hoods to try to steal my fuel. But that will be a problem no matter where I go in this entire county. And its currently set up for easy pickins with mý trucks outside.

My dream location would be 90 minutes away in the mountains. But I've done the hour+ commute before and can't do it anymore unless absolutely necessary. And I can't really justify a 100k plus mortgage for a place I could only visit one day a week, muchless build my garage there.

My fathers house where I lived for years was in a 400k range neighborhood 20 miles away, and while there was less traffic, it wasn't immune from trouble either.

With that said, does it really still sound like a bad idea to build myself a garage where I can enjoy myself for at least the next five years or so? Or should I keep on treading through days working to just pay bills and care for him and deny myself the one hobby I really enjoy? I've been trying to figure it out for the last 6+ months. Even grandma is behind me doing this. Whether its right or wrong, all I know is the days sure do brighten up a lot for me thinking that sometime soon I might be able to get back to what It is that I want to do. Unfortunately I just don't see myself being at all happy with just a carport to squeak by.

If I really do decide to move in the future, is there any reason I couldn't salvage a majority of the guts of this planned garage and rebuild elsewhere? Thus returning the property back to how it was...

 

[paredown]

I'd say build--but can you get permission to run the electric to the side of the new garage and avoid the pole?

Edit--reread and it sounds like you are already planning this. If the wire to the neighbors crosses your property without an easement in the deed, shouldn't the cost of rectifying this be born by the utility?

This might work well if you did attach the new garage directly to the structure of the house.

We're getting our feed underground, but we were connected to the new feed by taking the wire to the outside of the garage with a clamshell style connection--meter on the outside, main shutoff on the inside wall of the garage. This now becomes the "main" panel, grounded etc per code.

They then ran a feeder up into the garage rafters, and down into the old "main" and a separate ground wire to attach to the water pipes in the house. Per NEC the old main panel is now a subpanel and should not be grounded separately and should be unbonded (neutral and ground separated).

You should consult with a good electrician to discuss the possibilities.

 

[kert]

Its generally a good neighborhood, close to a college, the freeway and my work. the house is small which means easy for me to keep up. Yes I've had two instances where people came from bad hoods to try to steal my fuel. But that will be a problem no matter where I go in this entire county. And its currently set up for easy pickins with mý trucks outside

I know that it's not the only reason for building a garage, but you can sure buy a lot of fuel for the cost of building a garage.

 

[onthefence777]

While that is a good point, cost of fuel isn't why I hate a long commute, my pay rate could make up for that. Its the whole idea of working 10+ hrs and then spending 2 hrs in the car that I loathe.

 

[Zeke]

With that said, does it really still sound like a bad idea to build myself a garage where I can enjoy myself for at least the next five years or so? Or should I keep on treading through days working to just pay bills and care for him and deny myself the one hobby I really enjoy? I've been trying to figure it out for the last 6+ months. Even grandma is behind me doing this. Whether its right or wrong, all I know is the days sure do brighten up a lot for me thinking that sometime soon I might be able to get back to what It is that I want to do. Unfortunately I just don't see myself being at all happy with just a carport to squeak by.

If I really do decide to move in the future, is there any reason I couldn't salvage a majority of the guts of this planned garage and rebuild elsewhere? Thus returning the property back to how it was...

Very compelling post. I think you should do what does make you happy. Just be reasonable in the design, approach and expense.

No, don't even think about moving your garage. It's not impossible, but things change and it may become a moot issue. At the very least, it's not going to be that cost effective.

Just my .02 which is worth just that. Except, I'm much older and wiser because I was stupid many times.

 

[onthefence777]

Didn't mean I was planning to move it, I was more thinking on the lines, in case I HAD to move, found a buyer that just hates the garage and would buy if it was gone. I'm really not too worried about getting my money back on it.

At about 19x31 its a bit smaller than I'd like - pretty much be a wide one bay with lift. But its WAY more than I got now!

 

[hockey88fan]

Sounds like you've got your mind made up and you need some encouragement to carry out your plan. I say do it if it makes you feel happy, life's to short to worry about the what if's, etc. go for it!

 

[timewarp]

Unless there is a really strange easement on your property for the neighbors power it is a trespass and you should bear no expense of relocating the line to the neighbors. The "knowledgeable guy" from the power company sounds like he is trying to save the company money. I would call and let the power company know that you want the trespass removed, it might even be worth talking to a lawyer and getting a letter written. If they remove the trespass before you start building there should be no reason for you to pay for the clearance pole.

 

[onthefence777]

Unless there is a really strange easement on your property for the neighbors power it is a trespass and you should bear no expense of relocating the line to the neighbors. The "knowledgeable guy" from the power company sounds like he is trying to save the company money. I would call and let the power company know that you want the trespass removed, it might even be worth talking to a lawyer and getting a letter written. If they remove the trespass before you start building there should be no reason for you to pay for the clearance pole.

You are probably right. But I don't really believe in free lunches - even if I do the legal route, I wouldn't put it past the power co to place the pole in the middle of my planned driveway. Or maybe just take down my line and refuse to replace it. Heard too many horror stories. The guv'mint doesn't work for US anymore.

 

[bczygan]

You are probably right. But I don't really believe in free lunches - even if I do the legal route, I wouldn't put it past the power co to place the pole in the middle of my planned driveway. Or maybe just take down my line and refuse to replace it. Heard too many horror stories. The guv'mint doesn't work for US anymore.

It's not a free lunch. And don't get paranoid on us here. It is something to find out about. You need to do the due diligence and find out how things work and then apply them to your plans and needs. If the drop can be relocated without cost to you, then it would be foolish to do otherwise. If you don't like dealing with the power co,. then there are professionals on this forum who do it every day, who would be glad to do it for you. It seems you are stumbling around, looking for answers. There is a short list of calls that could be made that would tell you quickly what you can and can't do, which would lead you very quickly to figuring out what it will cost. Sent you a PM.

 

[onthefence777]

It's not a free lunch. And don't get paranoid on us here. It is something to find out about. You need to do the due diligence and find out how things work and then apply them to your plans and needs. If the drop can be relocated without cost to you, then it would be foolish to do otherwise. If you don't like dealing with the power co,. then there are professionals on this forum who do it every day, who would be glad to do it for you. It seems you are stumbling around, looking for answers. There is a short list of calls that could be made that would tell you quickly what you can and can't do, which would lead you very quickly to figuring out what it will cost. Sent you a PM.

I meant US as in citizens in general.

I placed a call and set up an appointment for Monday with a real estate attorney. Cost will be $150, which is 10 percent of the overall cost anyway to have the pole placed. Guess I will give it a shot.

 

[bczygan]

I meant US as in citizens in general.

I placed a call and set up an appointment for Monday with a real estate attorney. Cost will be $150, which is 10 percent of the overall cost anyway to have the pole placed. Guess I will give it a shot.

No, No, NO!

Cancel the appt. You are premature. Spending money needlessly!

Call me at the number I gave you right now and I will walk you through the process and make some calls for you if you like. I'll have my phone in my pocket and be available.

 

[bczygan]

For others that are following this. It MAY be that the pole and associated cost are something he may be required to do. It depends. It depends on who he talked to at the power company and how he approached them and what their internal operating rules are.
It may be that a different question, or a question asked a different way will give a different response. First, I would find out who designs and approves changes in services and what kinds of charges are taken care of by the company and what are borne by customers. I would ask some questions anonymously to get a groundwork of policies. I would find out different options for the kind of problems I had without being specific about my location. Only when I had a firm grasp on the rules, would I call and request changes for my specific location. You never want to ask a question concerning YOUR project, that you don't already know the answer to. That way you have no unhappy surprises.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Do away with the old garage, build on large, useful garage. The old one is not useful, and adding on to it makes a bad situation not much better.

Charles

 

[onthefence777]

For others that are following this. It MAY be that the pole and associated cost are something he may be required to do. It depends. It depends on who he talked to at the power company and how he approached them and what their internal operating rules are.
It may be that a different question, or a question asked a different way will give a different response. First, I would find out who designs and approves changes in services and what kinds of charges are taken care of by the company and what are borne by customers. I would ask some questions anonymously to get a groundwork of policies. I would find out different options for the kind of problems I had without being specific about my location. Only when I had a firm grasp on the rules, would I call and request changes for my specific location. You never want to ask a question concerning YOUR project, that you don't already know the answer to. That way you have no unhappy surprises.

I did cancel the appt.

Shoot. You are probably right. And I thought about that. See the way I got a hold of this guy at the power company was through my electrician. I asked him about it and he made the neccessary call to get the power company guy out. I presume he has worked with him before on other projects.

I would have liked to call you but I am at work and having a busy day. I will call you this evening, hopefully 530 PST is not too late? I just have a short break now.

Kinda sounds to me, that what you are getting at is that by contacting him in the manner I did, I have pretty much accepted the liability? If so I guess its a lesson learned and I will have to deal with that.

On another note, I did talk with the county about demolishing the existing garage; permit would come to around $1k to demo and rebuild. Reason why I'd like to avoid this is I spent a chunk of money rennovating the small garage when I bought the property. And I don't think its as simple as it might seem to do it anyhow.

 

[bczygan]

Anytime is OK.
Sounds like you're on the left coast.
Rules there may be much different than here in the Midwest.
Even more reason to tread carefully and find things out first.
Going to an electrician is a good first step IF they know how things work.
I don't know if you locked yourself in. There are other angles to go at it from. We'll see how it shakes out.
We'll get there, step by step.

 

[Binrat]

you'll spend half the cost at least on attorney fees and more than likely still have to pay something. So barter with them to consider covering half the cost them selves. or ask the neighbors to cover their part.

 

[timewarp]

If it is a trespass it is the power company that is in the wrong, yes you will be required to pay for any changes to your service due to building, but the power line to your neighbors should not cross your property without an easement. The power company couldn't place the new pole where it would block your new driveway and keep the line off your property. Make them remove the trespass before talking about your new building. Contact the Public Utility Commision in your state.

 

[Thruxton]

Would it be possible to tear down the existing tiny garage, and attach the new garage to the house? The meter would have to be relocated, but since you will be wiring the new garage anyway that might not be so difficult. You would possibly end up with a net gain in work area, an easier wiring scenario since the garage would be attached, etc. There are considerations like fire rating of the "shared" wall, but I think if this were my problem this is how I would try to approach it first.