Garage - ceiling electrical

[elav]

Hello, I have a 2 car garage that needs lights in each quadrant of the garage and a couple of electrical outlets for garage door openers. The lights can be hard wired or plugged in (although probably better to hard wire as plugs can get unplugged for other things). Here is what is needed...

• Power coming from the sub panel
• 4 switches by door (one for each light)
• Need 2 outlets to plug the garage door openers into

I don't have an attic and the ceiling is exposed beams with a main beam running across the garage as shown and the smaller beams running perpendicular. I can open up sheetrock on the walls if that will be a cleaner installation (and will need to do so for garage outlets anyway).

I have been overthinking ways to do this to the point of not doing anything. Any help is appreciated. I have included a drawing for clarity. Thanks!

 

[AntonLargiader]

Putting the lights over the cars is a waste. I'd put three over the cars, over the car doors, and two along the front wall.

 

[ddawg16]

I'd run a line of lights down the center of the garage. That will cover both cars from the center.

Then I'd do as Anton said...put them on the side...more or less line them up with the side of the car.

Put your outlets about 52" above the floor so you won't cover them if you lean a 4x8 sheet of something against the wall.

If it was me...the lights down the center would be one switch....then one for each side. Add task lighting as needed

 

[ddawg16]

Oh....and you can run Romex exposed in the attic....though you might want to consider putting drywall up there. It will do wonders for lighting and temp control

 

[ard]

When you say 'exposed beams'- do you just mean 'the ceiling is unfinished'?

So you can see the main support beam, then perpendicular there are ceiling 'joists'? (you call these beams too...the term is joist. They might actlaully be floor joists for the room above? You say there is no attic, hence I suspect a room above.

Agree with the others- DO NOT place the light over the car, it will cast shadows along each side. 3 rows. Will there be a work area? You might consider a light across that, or just go with the 3 rows.

Lets us know if the ceiling is exposed-

For the wall receptacles, you dont have to open the sheetrock. It isnt easy, but you cut a hole, maybe drill up through the fireblock (at 52" maybe you are above that?) Then drill down from the top, into the 'top plate'. Fish the wire down, mount the box to the sheetrock. I will bet there are 200 youtube videos on this. Another option is to do this to each wall- one box, then omn the surface run a series of receptacles on surface mount boxes- 3 or 4. Use EMT to link then. Easier that fishing...

 

[elav]

Sorry, I should have given a bit more back story. This 2 car attached garage is in the Bay Area (California). There is no basement and there is no attic. The roof/ceiling over the garage (and the entire house) from top to bottom is...
torch-down tar paper, 4" of ridged foam board (for insulation), 1" plywood for roof decking sitting on the beams (and this plywood is what you see on the inside of the garage, and entire house for that matter).

While I do store a car in the garage, this space is used for laundry, work bench, wood working tools and general storage. When I have a project to do I generally drag what is needed into the driveway - with 8 - 9 months of no rain, this works out pretty well. I have the 4 lights and they are powered by extension cords now. I'm happy with the light coverage and really want to get rid of the extension cords and be able to turn them on by light switches by the door. I'm guessing I'm going to have to run metal conduit along the main beam but looking for recommendations.

 

[Shiftless]

Yours is like mine. Low flat ceiling with the exposed joists. I ran EMT metal conduit from the sub panel, through a switch, a GFCI recetpacle and then right down the center beam and put 4x4 boxes with duplex receptacles every 32 inches. Each receptacle has a 2 tube 4 foot long LED shoplight plugged into it. I tucked each fixture up and in between the ceiling joists to save headroom. Fantastic light and inexpensive. That is for the half of my 20x20 that I use for work. The other half is just car storage so I don't need much light there. But if my needs change, I could run another 5 lights down that side too and plug into the other half of the duplex receptacles.

The floodlights you see are separately switched and light up a wall full of open shelves.

 

[ard]

Sorry, I should have given a bit more back story. This 2 car attached garage is in the Bay Area (California). There is no basement and there is no attic. The roof/ceiling over the garage (and the entire house) from top to bottom is...
torch-down tar paper, 4" of ridged foam board (for insulation), 1" plywood for roof decking sitting on the beams (and this plywood is what you see on the inside of the garage, and entire house for that matter).

While I do store a car in the garage, this space is used for laundry, work bench, wood working tools and general storage. When I have a project to do I generally drag what is needed into the driveway - with 8 - 9 months of no rain, this works out pretty well. I have the 4 lights and they are powered by extension cords now. I'm happy with the light coverage and really want to get rid of the extension cords and be able to turn them on by light switches by the door. I'm guessing I'm going to have to run metal conduit along the main beam but looking for recommendations.

Ah, an Eichler?

EMT, not 'metal conduit'... just to be precise. You can run it anywere- across the beams, along the walls- then up into the bay between the 'joists'....Kind of depends what you want in terms of design, visual impact, etc.

For example, you could run a ring of EMT around the entire garage, just below the ceiling, but on the walls... At each place you want a receptacle, you install a box up above, the drop a line down to a box that houses the receptacle. Bane for a switch. For the lights, another box on the ring, but run the EMT up, immediate 90 bend and across the ceiling to wherever the light is to be. A plug in or a direct wire to the box.

Do you want this to be mostly hidden? Or is surface EMT a look you don't mid seeing?

 

[elav]

Yes, I deserve being corrected for not saying joists or EMT - I was bouncing between things and wanted to get feedback on this as soon as possible. And yes, ard, the house is a Mackay - which is an Eichler wannabe (e.g. similar style and design). While I am a designer and things like seeing EMT will bother me, what bothers me more is not knowing how to wire this cleanly. Is it run a wire from the sub-panel to the switches and then run 3-wire up to have switched and unswitched outlets? Shiftless - I think what I'm trying to accomplish is more or less what you have done.

 

[Shiftless]

elav:
You can do it that way. My run feeding the lights is all switched. So just balck, white, and green gound wire. (12 ga. in case I want to plug in something big.) Check your local codes but I believe you don't really need a separate wire for equipment grounding if your EMT is installed properly and well grounded. Personally, I like using the ground wire.
I have a separate run hot all the time feeding receptacles at the back of my main workbench and the garage door opener.

 

[elav]

Thanks Shiftless. I am running outlets in the wall where one box is on breaker and the other box is on the other breaks - so I can plug in a table saw and dust collector in near-by plugs but not trip a breaker. The ceiling is truly for lights and garage door openers (although my previous house I did add outlets in the ceiling in each quadrant and I found myself using those more than I thought I would...

 

[pattenp]

Don't forget outlets in a garage are to be GFCI protected, even outlets on the ceiling.

 

[Shiftless]

Don't forget outlets in a garage are to be GFCI protected, even outlets on the ceiling.

Absolutely correct. Either use a GFCI breaker, or as I did, make the first receptacle a GFCI one and wire the rest on the "load" side of the device. The GFCI must remain accessible so if you put one on the ceiling, your inspector might object.

 

[elav]

Yes, I have GFCI breakers in the sub-panel - the logic being that the panel is easily accessible while the receptacle might not be with the garage also having a "storage" role (as I have no basement or attic). I wasn't aware of that applying to lights but since I've been talking about outlets - makes sense.

 

[ard]

Yes, I deserve being corrected for not saying joists or EMT - I was bouncing between things and wanted to get feedback on this as soon as possible. And yes, ard, the house is a Mackay - which is an Eichler wannabe (e.g. similar style and design). While I am a designer and things like seeing EMT will bother me, what bothers me more is not knowing how to wire this cleanly. Is it run a wire from the sub-panel to the switches and then run 3-wire up to have switched and unswitched outlets? Shiftless - I think what I'm trying to accomplish is more or less what you have done.

Im not trying to be pedantic- just want you to have the right terms.

If you run EMT, the 'wires' will be run inside (obviously) but this means that you can run the switch legs, the wires for the receptacles all in the same pipe- so once you figure out the piping, THEN you figure out what circuits you need. Even using 1/2" EMT you have plenty of space for many #12 wires.

Here is an idea...

The 'ring' around the walls is up at the top of the wall- you could exit the back of a box, then run romex down in the wall, and have flush mounted receptacles, and seitches. Or you can drop EMT down. To get from panel to the ring, use flex or romex in the wall.

For the lights, you would exit the top of one of the rring boxes, with emt, a 90degree sweep and run along the side of a joist- or across- or on the beam.

Again, with 1/2" emt, you can run two circuits (4 wires) to each receptacle, install a dual gang and have two circuits to plug into at each location.

 

[Shiftless]

The real fun starts with one of these...a conduit bender. Sure, you can buy 90 degree sweeps and a bunch of couplings, but many times you need something more complex. Also needed for box offset bends so the EMT can lay flat against a wall. Practice a few times on scrap to get the hang of it. Buy extra EMT "pipe" because unless you are a lot better at it than I am, you will make mistakes.

 

[ard]

OP- member penright tackled his first EMT job here:

www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348687

Started the thread with one idea, found his way to learn a new skill...

 

[maddog1949]

pattenp didn't know about the gfic in the ceiling. I am about to add lights in the ceiling with receptacles for each light. Thanks for the information