I recently had the concrete replaced in my garage. The cinder blocks shifted with the breaking up of the old concrete. The pic is the backside of the garage wall. Advice? Suggestions? Isn’t this something that the concrete company should pay for?
Garage Cinder Blocks shifted
- Thread starter Highlo09
- Start date
should they pay? what sort of discussion or contract did you have with them? if thy said everything will be fine, yes they probably should pay. if they said we cannot guarantee the existing blockwork blah blah blah,and you told them to carry on, then you were warned .
has the new floor been poured ? what sort of access is there from the inside,? show some pics
has the new floor been poured ? what sort of access is there from the inside,? show some pics
If the weight of the concrete pushed the wall…………..the wall as very weak and compromised long before the floor was poured. Yes, you could argue they should have braced or formed the wall, maybe a concrete guy will come along and say that‘s the way it always done and your guy screwed up. Long shot ????????
Fix is jack the garage……..rebuild the block wall or replace with poured wall. The problem the floor is where the new wall is suppose to be. So the floor will have to be cut back to the “right size.”
Fix is jack the garage……..rebuild the block wall or replace with poured wall. The problem the floor is where the new wall is suppose to be. So the floor will have to be cut back to the “right size.”
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billconner
Well-known member
Trying to understand if just the blocks "slid" out or if wall is also bowed or somehow did not move with blocks.
Just that one section or all the way around?
Just that one section or all the way around?
Walkers
Well-known member
Make them aware. Probably shoving the blocks back into place prior to pouring the concrete would be fine. If they were not cored with concrete, and there are no anchors in them you may be able to re mortar them.
firebirdparts
Well-known member
Well, that looks pretty unrepairable.
billconner
Well-known member
I can't tell extent but exterior photo shows 3 or 4 blocks pushed out. Remove them and replace with 6" or 4" blocks, and parge foundation might look and perform fine. Still too many unknowns to be sure.
It’s the whole backside of that wall and left of door as well. The whole back wall.
if it were me I would try to get the contractor to fix it. If they refused, I would cut/drill/remove the concrete pushing the displaced blocks replace or reset them and fill the voids and removed concrete gaps with grout.
I am not a mason or structural person, but have seen masons saw cut slots on block or mortaring in just the block face to work around pipes ran in the walls
I am not a mason or structural person, but have seen masons saw cut slots on block or mortaring in just the block face to work around pipes ran in the walls
captain14
Well-known member
Looks like the new floor has already been poured. Did you point it out to the contractor before they poured it.
Is this an attached or freestanding garage?
jack stand
Well-known member
Is it just me? Looks like they didn't lay the block with any 'bond', there 16" on 16". That makes me think a few buddies did the blockwork and is there even a proper footer under it all.
You might mention it to your guy, but as you said from the inside it looks fine.
You might mention it to your guy, but as you said from the inside it looks fine.
TRWham
Well-known member
I doubt the contractor will be of much use here. Generally I would say this is a case where you stabilize it where it is rather than try to move it back to where it was. There isn't much load on that wall unless you live in a snow area but your location is not specified.
Did the wall move with the blocks?
Did the wall move with the blocks?
billconner
Well-known member
Pull them out - chisel mortar etc. - and replace with thinner block. You might need to grout or fill the void between new slab and new block, possibly up to sill plate if not fully supported on new block.
If the appearance doesn't bother you, I don't think it will fail if the wall is not pushed out much so could leave it.
If the appearance doesn't bother you, I don't think it will fail if the wall is not pushed out much so could leave it.
Walkers
Well-known member
I didn’t catch that last picture.
That wall is supporting the whole roof load…
Zeke
Well-known member
Interesting that no one was observant enough to realize this before the new slab went in. classic case of closing the barn door after the horse is gone.
I'd support the wall affected, remove all the blocks, dig a footing and put in a new stem wall attaching to the edge of the slab with rebar bent into the new wall. Who pays? Well, that's gonna be a battle even if the demo was at fault.
Me, I'd just bad mouth the hell out of the old contractor and let a new contractor gloat about how he saved the situation. I don't allow people who make major mistakes back on the job. That's worked for me for 50 years as a contractor. But, I've also been on the job 95% of the time and catch this **** in time.
I'd support the wall affected, remove all the blocks, dig a footing and put in a new stem wall attaching to the edge of the slab with rebar bent into the new wall. Who pays? Well, that's gonna be a battle even if the demo was at fault.
Me, I'd just bad mouth the hell out of the old contractor and let a new contractor gloat about how he saved the situation. I don't allow people who make major mistakes back on the job. That's worked for me for 50 years as a contractor. But, I've also been on the job 95% of the time and catch this **** in time.
yes, it is but you could make it look better, i would break out the block face, add a 2x10 and filled with concrete, as far as concrete company paying, not going happen, they will claim you was gc and they was just labor
driftpin
Well-known member
Time for the structural P.E. to render a solution. I am not one.
Isn't it that the new floor pour pushed-out an inadequately-anchored at-grade block wall which provided the sill plate for the frame walls above it? Time for the structural engineer to draw a solution. I suspect it will involve bracing and supporting the partition walls and then removing the displaced CBS blocks, and forming and pouring concrete in-place of where the CBS blocks were. Rebar epoxied at-least 6" into holes in the new slab, and a new-pour continuous rebar the length of the wall(s) needing CBS block removal.
Removing the 8" width block and replacing it with 6" or 4" block to re-establish the original outward CBS wall dimension does not sound like a proper way to proceed.
TRWham
Well-known member
No, it is supporting half of the roof (or even less because it looks like a hip roof), but even if it were the entire roof that isn’t very much, absent snow load. That structure can be stabilized without bringing in the Corps of Engineers.
We didn’t know it was like that until AFTER we had the garage epoxyed. We had the back of garage loaded with cabinets etc, covered with tarps while the garage was being finished. So concrete was completed as well as the epoxy. You couldn’t tell from the inside of garage that this even happened.
Good question, looks like I might have to make a call to them as well.
We live in michigan…lots of snow! Ugh.
rayra
Well-known member
This is a fail of the contractor, the foreman, the crew and the homeowner.
The blocks were definitely shifted outward during the demo and the slab prep guys certainly should have noticed the top course had moved in relation to the sill plates and the lower course. Somebody saw it and didn't care to do anything about it. The job boss certainly didn't inspect his crew's work before the concrete was called for. It would have been a relatively straightforward repair, but I'm sure they didn't want to touch it and hoped it wouldn't be noticed.
A fix CAN be engineered. Whether a township or engineer will sign off is a different question. And effective way would be to demo the shifted blocks in short sections and set forms for a new concrete curb under the sill plate and poured into the blocks below AND with proper sill plate bolts set. It's obvious the blocks were never set properly in the first place. Were never grouted / filled with concrete or bolted to the sill, or they could not have moved how they did.
The repair work would also require at least a foot of your new slab be cut and removed, another round of demo along those block and proper doweling / pinning the new concrete to the slab that was just poured.
and all the block that have not shifted should be grouted if there is any access to do so.
The blocks were definitely shifted outward during the demo and the slab prep guys certainly should have noticed the top course had moved in relation to the sill plates and the lower course. Somebody saw it and didn't care to do anything about it. The job boss certainly didn't inspect his crew's work before the concrete was called for. It would have been a relatively straightforward repair, but I'm sure they didn't want to touch it and hoped it wouldn't be noticed.
A fix CAN be engineered. Whether a township or engineer will sign off is a different question. And effective way would be to demo the shifted blocks in short sections and set forms for a new concrete curb under the sill plate and poured into the blocks below AND with proper sill plate bolts set. It's obvious the blocks were never set properly in the first place. Were never grouted / filled with concrete or bolted to the sill, or they could not have moved how they did.
The repair work would also require at least a foot of your new slab be cut and removed, another round of demo along those block and proper doweling / pinning the new concrete to the slab that was just poured.
and all the block that have not shifted should be grouted if there is any access to do so.
larry4406
Well-known member
I think I would be inclined to underpin repair.
Shore up ceiling/roof, bust out the cinder block that shifted (that was never filled or anchored apparently), then pour a new stem wall anchored vertically into ****** block wall below and horizontally into new slab. Non-shrink grout or concrete with small aggregate while vibrated and fill all of the block while installing proper anchors.
I would not cut the slab.
My 2 cents.
I think your contractor F’d up and owns this.
Shore up ceiling/roof, bust out the cinder block that shifted (that was never filled or anchored apparently), then pour a new stem wall anchored vertically into ****** block wall below and horizontally into new slab. Non-shrink grout or concrete with small aggregate while vibrated and fill all of the block while installing proper anchors.
I would not cut the slab.
My 2 cents.
I think your contractor F’d up and owns this.
billconner
Well-known member
There are hundreds of thousands garages across US in much worse shape. Fix the appearance issues if they bother you. You could add some blocking - p.t. wood, concrete, or thinner blocks - under the wall. I think TRWham is correct - hip roof - just a fourth of the load.
So I would agree with Rayra and this happened during the demo. Did they use a bobcat or similar to haul the busted concrete out? I would guess they used the block as their backer to push against and load up the bucket.
What was the reason for replacing the floor, was it cracked and heaving? Could be why the block moved if the mortar joints were cracked already and they pushed against it with heavy equipment.
What about the anchor bolts for the wall, did those break out or are none present?
What was the reason for replacing the floor, was it cracked and heaving? Could be why the block moved if the mortar joints were cracked already and they pushed against it with heavy equipment.
What about the anchor bolts for the wall, did those break out or are none present?
Uncle murph
Well-known member
Ten dollars to a donut says the wall was pushed during the removal of the old floor.Who did that?
82355
Well-known member
If anyone’s insurance is paying it’s the contractors.
Was ( is) he licensed and insured ? Permitted ?
Did you hire the guy to form and pour or just pour?
Did the blocks shift when he demoed or poured? If the prior, why was he allowed to go ahead and pour?
Whoever blocked that up let you down. I'd let the guy know what happened so he'll be educated foe the next time.
Why did the original floor need re-poured?
Did the blocks shift when he demoed or poured? If the prior, why was he allowed to go ahead and pour?
Whoever blocked that up let you down. I'd let the guy know what happened so he'll be educated foe the next time.
Why did the original floor need re-poured?
I looked at the picture & I don't see any stray mortar or chips of blocks. I would have expected to see some debris from the blocks shifting. are you sure it wasn't like that already?
Good point. And as previously mentioned whomever played those blocks certainly didn't do any favors. Likely been loose forever.
There's another recent thread talking about how the slab should be 6" thick with thickened edges for a simple 27x27 detached. Crazy overkill I'm my mind, people get too obsessed with specs and forget reality sometimes. Dads garage, a no frills 2 car, was built on a self poured slab on grade. Grade was river run gravel, round stones and all with no compaction. Groundhogs used to burrow under it, you could see daylight 3' deep across a corner. Never had an issue.
welder4956
Well-known member
It is more likely that the block was pushed out during demo of the old concrete when the contractor was scooping out debris with a loader. But I haven't seen where the OP said when he noticed the damage. Not enough info.