Garage Construction

[Boneill230]

Moring everyone, So I am in the stages of designing an attached garage on my rancher using home design software I purchased. I want it to be 30' wide by 40' deep (interior dim). I am planning for 1- 12' x 16' and 1-12'x? haven't decided on width for the second one. But here is where the question comes in, I want to have 15' ceilings in order to put a truck lift (18k) inside sometime in the future. Second part of that question, I also am trying to fin a way to have the entire 30x40 space open, no columns possibly 1 or 2 if needed. I do have familiarization with structural steel construction and was wondering if that can have a place in a residential garage. I wouldn't mind have 1 or 2 I-beam columns between the 2 doors because I can use them for other purposes as well (I'm a certified structural welder).

I refuse to use the wood truss for framing the ceiling and roof because of the integrity on the system. If anyone is familiar with bar joists I was wondering if that could be used for the ceiling to allow a load on top in the attic. I know codes will play a big roll in this I am in NJ. I just want to get a basic design down before I spend the money to discuss with an engineer and architect.

Thanks in advanced for the help! any questions or more info that will be needed just ask ill try to get back as quick as I can

 

[readhead]

I am very familiar with bar joists but am puzzled by your distain for wood truss's

 

[Boneill230]

I am very familiar with bar joists but am puzzled by your distain for wood truss's

Long story short I am a firefighter as well, the trusses for roofs are used because they are cheap opposed to regular stick frame. And they are kindling if they ever catch fire, lightweight construction kills firemen).

To add to it, Like I said above I plan to have storage space above, and below in the garage I wouldn't put it past myself to hang stuff from the celing and from my knowledge you cant put much of a load on the trusses. I could be wrong though hence why I am on here!

 

[Radix2]

There are many ways to address fire rating other than changing away from trusses.

If you want a 90 min rating or 3hrs or whatever, make that your requirement and see what an architect can come up with as the most economical solution. Maybe steel, maybe wood with quality fire stopping, sprinklers, whatever.

Personally I don't see the difference in a total loss if a few components are less damaged. Not sure that escape time is a big factor in a garage vs a sleeping area.

But I have heard similar desires from some retired firefighters friends I have, so you are not alone.

Interesting topic let use know what you come up with.

As far as storage, a wood truss can be designed for whatever load you want. The issue is no different for steel trusses ( which can be very fragile to misapplied loads perhaps even more than wood trusses).

 

[readhead]

You are probably familiar with fire resistant construction methods. Truss's can be built with fire treated lumber, sprayed with monocoat, drywall seperations or you can sprinkle the building. Truss's can be designed to hold up whatever you want both above and below. You know what happens to bar joists in high heat.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

You cant really beat the span and cost of a truss

I used to be a firefighter as well and always used to say that I couldn't believe that people use trusses because they're so dangerous. However there is there is a lot of different ways you can prevent fire from affecting trusses using sprinklers, drywall fireproofing etc. Plus if you're talking about a garage or shop it's unlikely that you're gonna have a whole bunch of firefighters in there searching for victims if a fire actually reaches the roof structure the building is probably a total loss anyhow which you know will be a surround and drown operation

I am planning on a new garage as well and will be going with wood trusses on my home


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kbs2244]

Go with the bar joists if that is what makes you happy.
There span and load carrying ability can be adjusted by their depth.

 

[matt_i]

Type C drywall...makes Type X look like like cheap stuff when it comes to fireproofing. Very minimal additional cost.

More here: https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG...pe-x-and-type-c-white-paper-en-usa-WB2605.pdf

 

[Boneill230]

Thanks for the replies!, as for fellow firefighters. It's not it catching fire that makes we want to go with bar joists or structural steel. It's more longevity and strength of the structure itself. No need to explain what would happen if it catches fire believe me I know lol. i will be continuing my research but keep your ideas flowing! Once again this is not about having a fireproof garage, just figuring out framing of the ceiling with minimal to no columns inside while still being able to support a substantial load in the attic or even a usable room

Thanks again!

 

[bczygan]

Codes should not prevent you from using commercial construction techniques.

Have you checked your zoning requirements?

Bill

 

[rburke65]

From what will you construct the side walls?

 

[Rocky71]

I built my 30x40 last year and I used trusses for two stalls and the third rafters, with a 7/12 pitch I ended up with around 19 1/2 ' to the peak and put a four post lift in with no issues with ceiling height.

 

[Rocky71]

Another angle

 

[matt_i]

A clear span red iron metal building would seem to fit all of your specs. The concrete foundation on those is substantial, especially with your sidewall height. Also easy to add a floor suitable for heavy trucks. It would seem very easy to integrate a few more concrete footings in it for whatever structural steel you had in mind. You could put in 4 posts and build a free-standing bridge crane.

Also, the "knee" for the bridge crane runway rails can be integrated into the column design of the red-iron building. However it adds more cost, mainly due to having to beef up the cross- bracing on the building due to the cross-forces on the building from the starting and stopping the travelling load. Also they don't supply the structural steel, you have to have this engineering done in conjunction.

 

[Firebrick43]

Steel builds can/will collapse as fast if not faster than wood frames ones in many cases. Most of the light steel structural beams and studs will actually fail at around 500 degrees, long before solid wood and comparable to engineered wood.

Glulam arch trusses will actually outperform a steel rafter/truss in a fire unless the steel is sprayed with fireproofing. The steel post actually fails first in most fires involving gluam truss building fires

 

[wssix99]

Long story short I am a firefighter as well, the trusses for roofs are used because they are cheap opposed to regular stick frame. And they are kindling if they ever catch fire, lightweight construction kills firemen).

Economical construction is lightweight construction. If your garage catches fire, you've got problems on a number of fronts. (As would the men and women responding to the fire.) If this is a concern for you, I'm sure you can appreciate the benefits of a sprinkler system. You'll spend less money on this than building a structure that will withstand a fire...

To add to it, Like I said above I plan to have storage space above, and below in the garage I wouldn't put it past myself to hang stuff from the celing and from my knowledge you cant put much of a load on the trusses. I could be wrong though hence why I am on here!

The material a truss is made of has nothing to do with what you can hang from it. Generally, you will not be able to hang loads from a truss unless it is engineered specifically for the purpose.


Your tastes are expensive. This is sounding like a $200 per square foot garage to me...

 

[Boneill230]

Steel builds can/will collapse as fast if not faster than wood frames ones in many cases. Most of the light steel structural beams and studs will actually fail at around 500 degrees, long before solid wood and comparable to engineered wood.

Glulam arch trusses will actually outperform a steel rafter/truss in a fire unless the steel is sprayed with fireproofing. The steel post actually fails first in most fires involving gluam truss building fires

As I stated before my intentions aren't having a fireproof building

 

[crewchief888]

Another angle

off topic question for ya, how are those kumho MT tires holding up?

pro's/cons ?

i need to replace the 35's on my dedicated trail truck (no where close to being street legal, and will never see the road again).
from my searching the kumhos are cheaper than just about anything else ive found.

my only experience with kumho was back in the early '00's we ran them for several races on a CORR short course truck, until the truck was totalled.

 

[bczygan]

If you have the money, a red iron building gives you lots of options for open space and hanging things from the structure, like crane rails.

It can be clad and finished to look industrial or residential.

The larger the building, the more it becomes the right structure anyway.

 

[Rocky71]

I can't really tell you I don't drive the fj much but they are very aggressive and noisey, but they look good!

 

[crewchief888]

I can't really tell you I don't drive the fj much but they are very aggressive and noisey, but they look good!

thanks

i really hate buying tires, especially for this truck.
it only hits the trails a couple times a year, spending $200+ per tire doesnt make me happy at all.
last set of firestones i put on my sierra were well over $250/tire.

used tire market for 35/12.50/15 *****, seems like everything on the used market is for 17" and up wheels.

 

[73RR]

30 x 40 open floor, clear span and 15 side walls...right?

Use ICF for the walls and hang open web joists. There are many types of open web joists, some are all wood, some have wood top/bottom chords and steel webs, some are all steel. Like structural steel framing, the joists can be sprayed with something like Intercure® 200
Interchar 963; Interthane® 870; Intercure 200; or Interchar 1120
but these will not be cheap.

You'll be better off keeping a clean work place and not leave immediately after doing a bunch of cutting/welding. C'mon, you know the rules.....

 

[Zogman]

So are you looking for a flat roof or a pitched roof? Please check out my pictures. I used a massive 55' long glue lam for one of my ridge beams and on the 3 garage side I used (2) 27' long glue lams to span the depth. That section alone is 43' wide. I wanted vaulted ceiling so your mileage may vary. If there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Boneill230]

ATTN everyone, I apologize for the confusion I am not sure why in the original post I mentioned hanging stuff from the ceiling must have been thinking of something else at the time. But the main thing would be having a usable attic space for storage or even a room while having minimal to no columns in the space. Thank again for the help thus far

 

[Boneill230]

So are you looking for a flat roof or a pitched roof? Please check out my pictures. I used a massive 55' long glue lam for one of my ridge beams and on the 3 garage side I used (2) 27' long glue lams to span the depth. That section alone is 43' wide. I wanted vaulted ceiling so your mileage may vary. If there is a will, there is a way.

Holy beam! For the ridge beam I would probably use a glue lam. I knew about them before but never looked into them in depth but from my research over the past day from people mentioning them on here they seem like the option to go with. Can you also use glulam beams for the joists? Using them as the joists would be perfect to make the 30' span if you can do that.

 

[Radix2]

Holy beam! For the ridge beam I would probably use a glue lam. I knew about them before but never looked into them in depth but from my research over the past day from people mentioning them on here they seem like the option to go with. Can you also use glulam beams for the joists? Using them as the joists would be perfect to make the 30' span if you can do that.

The cost effective and typical way to build attic rooms is with attic trusses. It gives the most space at the best price.

Yes, you can build with glulams or steel or whatever, but expect it to be 3-5x the cost of normal construction, you will also lose a bunch of space, because the floors will be 18-24in thick instead of 10-12 with a attic truss.

Your posts don't make a lot of sense when you object to trusses due to fire, but then say you are not interested in making the trusses fire safe, just don't want to use them because they are unsafe...?

So basically, if you can state that money is no object for this build, we can drop the discussion of how to do it cost effectively and maybe answer your questions more clearly on how to do it without using trusses.

Glulams are generally used when you want to see them - they are expensive and attractive - if they are not seen, then TJIs ( which firefighters don't like either it seems) or floor trusses (ditto) or steel are the alternatives at 30'

If you look at my build, it was very simple to have 40' clear span and a 20' wide attic room under a 8/12 roof using attic trusses, so what you are after is not difficult or unusual design wise.