Garage door and R value

[pinesdune]

Hi guys, I’m looking at a new door for my shop. It has a 14’ by 14’ Richard Wilcox from the early ‘90’s and it’s been a good door, I’d rather fix it but the local rep doesn’t know if they can gets the panel and seals I need so I’m thinking it’s time to swap it out. Midland offers a new 3” thick R28 door and other than price difference I was wondering what your guys thoughts are on it. Is it worth going from an R16-18 door to an R-28 (about $1000 difference) Do you guys know of any other options for a high efficiency door (min I’ll look at is R-18) as I live in southern Manitoba (quite often temps around -20 to -30 with down below -40 )




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[EOC_Jason]

Up there I would think you would want the best insulated door you can get. R16 to R28 is a pretty significant jump...

 

[gnpenning]

Midland makes a great product, and from my experience makes the best doors on the market. The Thermo gaurd is new to the product line for them. They spent a lot of time and money developing that line, and making sure they could back up the R value.

They also make that same door in 2", did you have your dealer price that for you as well? The 3" requires a 3" track along with other things that raise the price.

Make sure you have plenty of overlap of door on the sides and top. This will help stop air infiltration. Caulk the back of the weatherstrip, especially if you have steel trim.

 

[Gary Anderson]

I live in Minnesota.
We put a new 16 x 8 garage door on a few years ago.
Did an R28 door.
Huge difference!!!
My garage is fully insulated and has forced gas heat.
MAJOR savings!

There is no cold air just off the inside door,
UNLIKE it used to be.

Being in Manitoba...Pop for the good stuff!
You will NOT regret it!

Your Pal, Gary

 

[twostall2007]

I recently purchased garaged doors and was deciding between R values. I can't remember if it was Raynor or Overhead Door, but they have a chart showing the % difference between R values. Looking at that and calculating ROI for my heated garage, they talked me down to a lower value. There really wasn't any reason for them to do that to lose $, but there wasn't much % difference between the low end and high end R values. R values in garage doors are not really accurate anyway. More value is placed on thermal breaks between the front and back of the panels and seals between each section.

If you find one of those charts, it may help with your answer. I saved my $.

Edit: Here is the chart. R 18 would reduce 95% of heat transfer. R 28 would be 96%. 1% difference in heat transfer is minimal especially with most of the leakage being the seals.

http://www.amarr.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/r-value-chart1.jpg

 

[Orionrising]

The airsealing on the door matters hugely too... Need airsealing door vs old leaky one would be huge difference

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[BruceMc]

R values in garage doors are not really accurate anyway. More value is placed on thermal breaks between the front and back of the panels and seals between each section.

I have a set of fairly new, decent doors from Overhead and it was a real eye-opener the first time I pointed a FLIR imager on them at -20.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

Another consideration is frequency of use. High end restoration shops that only open doors occasionally will benefit more from a high r door than will a jiffy lube. Thermal break and double edge seals will make significant difference on total door package performance. There is a balance in ROI.

 

[pinesdune]

Thanks for all the reply’s. Manitoba Hydro (my electric company) offers a kickback for getting a better door, it has to be DASMA 105 tested (not sure what that entails) so that’s partly why I’m looking at the thicker door. It could be that the test puts the whole door assembly on the line to see how the seals and frame transmits cold as mentioned above.

I installed a couple steel craft r16 doors on my new garage last year (10 wide by 8’) and I’ve got water on the steel end caps most the time and it’s driving me nuts ) so this time I’m doing a lot more research into doors rather than going with what my local lumber yard pushes.

I’ll keep ya posted as I get more info on the doors and program


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[MrSurly]

Curious about the topic but with consideration of a (much) more temperate climate.

I insulated (spray foam) my new build and put up some "insulated" doors that are a bit minimal in that area. I'm in East Texas and we'll never get to -20 (I hope!) but it certainly gets cool enough that I want to keep it comfortable. The doors I have are standard commercial steel doors (10X 10) which have styrofoam 'board' in their panel segments but there are no thermal breaks provided for any of the metal end caps or braces so their effectiveness is quite low. I haven't tried to find their R rating.
I'm looking for suggestions for what might be used to add a thermal break other than replacing the doors. Foam tape? Thin foam sheets from Lowes? Does anyone sell a "blanket" for this?

 

[Blk88GT]

I live nearby and would opt for the better door. I have doors from Hanover Door in my shop but they're only R19 (I think). I'm happy with the quality but would have opted for higher R value at the time if they were available. Mine are ~5yrs old.

 

[gnpenning]

Curious about the topic but with consideration of a (much) more temperate climate.

I insulated (spray foam) my new build and put up some "insulated" doors that are a bit minimal in that area. I'm in East Texas and we'll never get to -20 (I hope!) but it certainly gets cool enough that I want to keep it comfortable. The doors I have are standard commercial steel doors (10X 10) which have styrofoam 'board' in their panel segments but there are no thermal breaks provided for any of the metal end caps or braces so their effectiveness is quite low. I haven't tried to find their R rating.
I'm looking for suggestions for what might be used to add a thermal break other than replacing the doors. Foam tape? Thin foam sheets from Lowes? Does anyone sell a "blanket" for this?

The themal breaks are between the front and back panels. With a better door they are on the end styles as well. The only connection between front and back is at the end styles. This is why they would need a thermal break as well.

Yours has continuous metal front to back. No cheap or easy way to change. You could try something like a RFP panel and attach across each door section, completely covering the section. Not sure how much it would help in your climate. The one thing it would do if you are using your garage as a shop, it would keep the inside cleaner and make it easy to clean up. It would also keep sawdust or metal grinds from collecting on the sections and falling down when you open the door.

As you know insulation is for keeping heat out as well as keeping heat in.

Garage doors are the largest moving objects in a home. They can also be a large portion of the front look of a building. More thought,money and concern goes into a 36" front door. Many buy the cheapest thing they can find, after spending a great deal on insulating walls. Garage doors are NOT tested by independent labs for R or U values. Many use very creative and uhh deceiving R values.

 

[pinesdune]

So I’m going with the Midland 3”.
Manitoba Hydro has a program out to help cover the cost of a more energy efficient door, but the DASMA 105 test hasn’t been done on the door I want but they will take my application with a “pending” exception for the test, so once it’s completed, and if it meets the criteria , I’ll get a rebate (I’m expecting to get something back to the tune of 500-1250) That way I get a door sooner than later and still can apply for the rebate. Here’s some test info I found for other makes of doors, the “U” value is the measurement for overall door efficiency, I was told the lower the number the better.


In the quotes I received, the 3” midland was about $1500 difference more than a 2” door, but I like the design of the door and hope in the long run it will hold up better than a 2” . Install date is set for the middle of February, I’ll post some pics of the finished product and what I find out when the Dasma test is completed


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[JackAndy]

My garage door is just an aluminum skin with no insulation whatsoever. I glued 2" thick styrofoam panels to the back side of it (R9) and filled in the gaps with spray foam. I intend to cover it with a polysio foal too. That should get it up to R-11. The walls are insulated with R-15 and the ceiling is insulated with R-19. I'm thinking that should be good enough. I only heat my garage occasionally when I work in it because its not attached. So far I can get it up to 50 degrees F on the coldest day of the year (15F) with a 23,800 BTU kerosene heater. I have a second 20k BTU kerosene heater now as well but I turn the second one off once it hits 50 F because thats my ideal working temp.

 

[pinesdune]

Yeah, here’s my next weeks forecast

I try to keep my shop around plus 5-10 Celsius (40-50F) with two electric 7500watt heaters, R50 ceiling, r20 walls, so this door is the better part of my westerly facing wall (windward side), I think an overkill door now is less expensive in the long run

 

[gnpenning]

You should be very happy with Midland. They make a great product. Surprised at that long of a lead time. I can usually have them in 2 weeks.

Are you going with the thermo guard line or the ES line?

As I mentioned before the 3" door will have a 3" track, rollers, and a number of other upgrades to handle the door. These things add a big jump to the price, but needed for longevity. Midland will not skimp on quality.

Be sure and report back on them.

 

[pinesdune]

You should be very happy with Midland. They make a great product. Surprised at that long of a lead time. I can usually have them in 2 weeks.

Are you going with the thermo guard line or the ES line?

As I mentioned before the 3" door will have a 3" track, rollers, and a number of other upgrades to handle the door. These things add a big jump to the price, but needed for longevity. Midland will not skimp on quality.

Be sure and report back on them.

It’s the thermoguard line. The door should be here in about two to three weeks, with the holidays coming up, but the install crew doesn’t have an opening until Feb 20th. But I’ve told them they can come and install it if they get a cancelation. But they’ve only quoted me for a 2” track, I’ll question them on that? Thanks for the help, Merry Christmas

 

[gnpenning]

Surprised Midland will allow that.
3" doors are massive and pretty heavy. Check and see how many springs are specified.

Merry Christmas

 

[6768rogues]

I have two doors that are 3 inch thick foam filled commercial units. They have been great for 22 years and still work great. They were worth every penny.

 

[pinesdune]

The door got installed yesterday, looks like a good unit , goes up and down and keeps out the cold, time will tell the energy savings and durability. Still waiting to hear about the DASMA test, the company rep said it will be this summer at soonest, I’ll post it once I know it. I have a couple little things to do once the weather warms up , at -25 they couldn’t silicone the wether stripping, and I want to replace some twist connectors with solder/shrink wrap connections.







Well, for two weeks of use I’m loving the door, heaters run about half to 3/4 as much as before and the whole shop feels warmer, even beside the door, overall very happy I got it. We just had a spell of -30’s with the wind chill factor, -20 to -30 nominal, the door didn’t deflect like the old one did when the wind was from the west and let air in around the seals. Thought I’d just add this update to my previous post Feb 25,2018