Garage door framing

[sansert]

Ok everyone, getting ready to start framing. Footers, block walls, and pad are all poured and ready to go. Going to be framing a 24W x 28D garage. 2 x 6 walls. It will have 9' walls on the first floor. 2nd floor will have 8' walls. We have an estimate from a lumber company. In it they have scissor trusses for the 2nd floor. 4/12 pitch on roof with asphalt shingles. They are using (22) 2-5/16X14X26 BCI 60 I joists. They will be spanning left to right. They do not come in 24' length so that is why they are 26'. They have also included (2) 1-3/4X18X24 LVLs which I take to be for my garage door header which the door will be a 16' x 8' garage door. Since they do not give me a set of plans in their estimate, are they thinking of spanning the whole width of the garage with those (2) LVLs as part of my header? Just trying to visualize things

 

[spudley]

Appears they are using the full 24' width. Kinda odd, since a 16' door should leave enough wall for a proper shear panel. Unless... is the man door on the same wall?
Or is the 16' door on the gable end? And what's up with scissor trusses on the second floor? You won't get much "cathedral" effect if the pitch is at 4/12.
I used (3) 1-3/4" X 12" x 18' lvl's on a 16' door, eave side, supporting second floor/roof.

 

[sansert]

Appears they are using the full 24' width. Kinda odd, since a 16' door should leave enough wall for a proper shear panel. Unless... is the man door on the same wall?
Or is the 16' door on the gable end? And what's up with scissor trusses on the second floor? You won't get much "cathedral" effect if the pitch is at 4/12.
I used (3) 1-3/4" X 12" x 18' lvl's on a 16' door, eave side, supporting second floor/roof.

The man door is not on same wall as far as the way we did the block. So I do not know if the lumber guy that gave us the estimate knew that or if he included it in the same wall. The man door will be on the left side wall facing the front which is where the garage door will be. I will have to call and see.

The scissor trusses are my wifes idea as that area upstairs will be her art studio. She did not want a flat ceiling.

 

[Kevin54]

Ok everyone, getting ready to start framing. Footers, block walls, and pad are all poured and ready to go. Going to be framing a 24W x 28D garage. 2 x 6 walls. It will have 9' walls on the first floor. 2nd floor will have 8' walls. We have an estimate from a lumber company. In it they have scissor trusses for the 2nd floor. 4/12 pitch on roof with asphalt shingles. They are using (22) 2-5/16X14X26 BCI 60 I joists. They will be spanning left to right. They do not come in 24' length so that is why they are 26'. They have also included (2) 1-3/4X18X24 LVLs which I take to be for my garage door header which the door will be a 16' x 8' garage door. Since they do not give me a set of plans in their estimate, are they thinking of spanning the whole width of the garage with those (2) LVLs as part of my header? Just trying to visualize things

You need (3) 1 3/4" LVL's fastened together for a proper header. 1.75 x 3 = 5 1/4" in thickness

 

[gnpenning]

Don't know what type of vehicles you will be putting in there, but you may want to consider going to an 18' or 20' wide door. Also with only 12" headroom with a 10"radius track you will be tight on room for a trolley opener. Plan on off setting the spring for more opener room.

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

Having the lvl go across the entire width is not unusual. Be certain that you follow local code about plywood sheathing to be sure you get full benefit of the shear wall. If your curb is raised above the floor height it would not be easy changing the width of the door. I agree with gnpenning about offsetting spring perch unless you go with an offset opener. Good luck.

 

[sansert]

Don't know what type of vehicles you will be putting in there, but you may want to consider going to an 18' or 20' wide door. Also with only 12" headroom with a 10"radius track you will be tight on room for a trolley opener. Plan on off setting the spring for more opener room.

What wall height would you recommend? Originally started thinking having 10' lower level walls. I figured with the walls sitting on 8-10 inches of block plus a 9' wall sitting on top of that that I would have plenty of headroom for the garage door.

 

[sansert]

Having the lvl go across the entire width is not unusual. Be certain that you follow local code about plywood sheathing to be sure you get full benefit of the shear wall. If your curb is raised above the floor height it would not be easy changing the width of the door. I agree with gnpenning about offsetting spring perch unless you go with an offset opener. Good luck.

yeah my block walls are set already so widening that door probably will not be happening. Honestly, we will probably rarely ever have 2 vehicles in there. Thanks

 

[sansert]

You need (3) 1 3/4" LVL's fastened together for a proper header. 1.75 x 3 = 5 1/4" in thickness

Would that be proper for code reasons or proper way to do it to just beef up that wall? Plans were approved with 2 but....

Would I need to do anything with those 3 LVLs to make it 5 1/2" like the 2 x 6s?

 

[Hot Rod Grampa]

If you have 10" block coming out and 9' wall on top you are good. A lift might not work for you but for the door lots of room. If you use 2 beams make spacers to fit between them to get you to the 5 1/2". 3 lvl's would get you 5 1/4". Only you can decide if it's worth it. Codes usually specify minimums with a safety factor built in. It's ok to overbuild if you prefer.

 

[spudley]

My lumberyard also spec'd (2) 1-3/4 x 14" LVL's. After some load calculations we switched to (3) 1-3/4 x 12" as those extra 2" would've added another stair up to the second floor. They also planned 18" floor trusses at 19.2" or 24" spacing. I dropped the trusses to 16" deep on 16" centers, with three rows of 2x6" strongbacks. My second floor deflection is unnoticeable, but I also have nothing stored yet.
Costs a bit more but I didn't want the garage taller than the house. And 16 stairs is more than enough to climb a couple hundred times already. That 17th stair would've done me in.

 

[mvusse]

Would that be proper for code reasons or proper way to do it to just beef up that wall? Plans were approved with 2 but....

Would I need to do anything with those 3 LVLs to make it 5 1/2" like the 2 x 6s?

Supposedly the lvls are 1 3/4" thich, so three of them stacked together would be 5 1/4", or 1/4" shy of the width of a 2x6. In my case, though, after nailing them together, the package was 5 1/2" thick, perfect.

Mine were 9 3/4" tall, spanning a 16 foot door, but they only had to hold up the (asphalt shingle) roof, no second story on my garage.

 

[gnpenning]

If you have 10" block coming out and 9' wall on top you are good. A lift might not work for you but for the door lots of room. If you use 2 beams make spacers to fit between them to get you to the 5 1/2". 3 lvl's would get you 5 1/4". Only you can decide if it's worth it. Codes usually specify minimums with a safety factor built in. It's ok to overbuild if you prefer.

This^^^

 

[RocketScott]

I've framed many, many 2x6 walls with 4x headers pushed to the outside. It's a very common practice. In a garage the header just needs some blocks where the garage door tracks and opener attaches.

 

[GMCGarage]

Ok everyone, getting ready to start framing. Footers, block walls, and pad are all poured and ready to go. Going to be framing a 24W x 28D garage. 2 x 6 walls. It will have 9' walls on the first floor. 2nd floor will have 8' walls. We have an estimate from a lumber company. In it they have scissor trusses for the 2nd floor. 4/12 pitch on roof with asphalt shingles. They are using (22) 2-5/16X14X26 BCI 60 I joists. They will be spanning left to right. They do not come in 24' length so that is why they are 26'. They have also included (2) 1-3/4X18X24 LVLs which I take to be for my garage door header which the door will be a 16' x 8' garage door. Since they do not give me a set of plans in their estimate, are they thinking of spanning the whole width of the garage with those (2) LVLs as part of my header? Just trying to visualize things

What did they say when you asked them???

 

[gnpenning]

I've framed many, many 2x6 walls with 4x headers pushed to the outside. It's a very common practice. In a garage the header just needs some blocks where the garage door tracks and opener attaches.

Why do you frame this way?? Does the siding need something more solid than the garage door springs? ?

 

[ishiboo]

You need (3) 1 3/4" LVL's fastened together for a proper header. 1.75 x 3 = 5 1/4" in thickness

You need whatever the load calculations tell you need for a "proper header". It's probably engineered correctly with two. Putting some spacer lumber in gives you an air gap even if they're not going to run insulation in it, for better R-value than a solid stack of DENSE resin-impregnated lumber.

Otherwise they may just be building it up to be cheaper. There's a lot of places where there is plenty of compression strength for something in a single LVL, you just need a build-up for side-to-side if it's in an unsupported application like a header on a gable end.

 

[RocketScott]

Why do you frame this way?? Does the siding need something more solid than the garage door springs? ?

Inside the house it would be harder to insulate with one on the outside and another on the inside.

On the garage portal framing the header isn’t just carrying the load from above. It’s part of the shear schedule.


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[gnpenning]

Inside the house it would be harder to insulate with one on the outside and another on the inside.

On the garage portal framing the header isn’t just carrying the load from above. It’s part of the shear schedule.


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This is just a garage. No second story load. Sandwiched beams will meet shear.

 

[RocketScott]

This is just a garage. No second story load. Sandwiched beams will meet shear.

From the OP:

...2nd floor will have 8' walls...

 

[gnpenning]

From the OP:

Missed that.

Thanks

 

[sansert]

What did they say when you asked them???

They told me that they try to provide enough materials for someone to build their garage and that how I choose to frame my garage door is really up to me. They are just trying to give me enough to work with. Basically they are saying if I want to use a 24' LVL that I will be able to do that.

 

[alexb2000]

For you guys that don't think two 24" deep LVL's can carry a second story and he needs three.

Where are you guys getting that?

That's a lot of structure for a 16' span.

 

[sansert]

For you guys that don't think two 24" deep LVL's can carry a second story and he needs three.

Where are you guys getting that?

That's a lot of structure for a 16' span.

The LVLs are 24' long and 18" deep. The garage is 24' wide

 

[8mpg]

Just make sure you know they wont give you any type of plans. They are going to drop off some lumber and how you frame it is up to you.

If you can find you some helpers to do this on the side, you will appreciate it later. I was framing my building myself and we had some family friends that are framers come help. Not only are they much much faster, but their work is way better than what my dad and I were doing. Their methods to brace and straighten walls was huge. Just make sure you straighten and plumb the walls or it will make your life much harder.

 

[alexb2000]

The LVLs are 24' long and 18" deep. The garage is 24' wide

I read that different because the garage door is a 16'.

OK, so why 24's? Why not 18x18's which would make more sense?

Could it be they had 24'ers in stock so they sold them? IDK

Still, why are some saying 3 LVL's are needed?

 

[scottydosnntkno]

The lumberyard is probably assuming with such a big opening he’s going to portal frame it. That means your header goes from end stud to end end stud of the wall, not just over the door and it’s trimmer studs. So the dual header will be 23-8” long

An 18” lvl is a REALLY deep lvl for a 16’ span and would be overkill. My new house garages clearspan 31’ with full floor load above and use 20” lvls to hold the stairs and end wall.

A lot of it is up to the architect and what they spec or what you choose to do from the code book. For example the Archie may say 2-14” and code says 3-11-7/8” will span the same. Either will work it’s personal preference

For the guy saying use three for a ‘proper header’ that’s only from a thickness standpoint for nailing. Sure let’s use another $120 piece of wood so we have something to nail to, rather than some scrap 2x lumber ripped down. . If 2 lvls will support the load, you sandwich them per the nailing schedule and push them to the outside. Then rip a scrap 2x down to 2” or whatever your finished thickness is for a nailer for trim. Same for your spring board, block behind it. This way you can still staple some r13 over the lvls and get a warm space rather than a giant slab of wood with 0 r value.

There’s no structural benefit to your header being as thick as the studs. If 2 lvls support the load, they can be inside, outside or centered in the wall and still work. Outside is best since you can easily insulate the inside.