Garage Door Issue - Need Advice/Recommendations

[BTC]

The mount that holds one of the rollers on the bottom panel of one of my garage doors has stripped out. I guess I'm looking for advice on the best approach to fixing this. The doors are Amarr, and I believe they are the Classica 3000. This is a new construction, and I've lived here a little over a year. I've tried to get the installer to come look at this and fix it, but I've pretty much given up on that. The guy appears to be worthless from a customer service standpoint. I haven't contacted the manufacturer to get their input, but I probably will. Here are some pics that will hopefully illustrate what I'm talking about

This is the actual roller that is giving me issues, and what it would look like, ideally. The issue is that whatever these self tabbing bolts screw into is stripped out and they aren't getting any bite. My plan was to just get the next larger bolt and hope they'll grab whatever it is that these things are screwing into inside the door. I think I'll have to drill out the holes in the mounts to keep from screwing up the threads.

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Here is the roller and its mounting bracket.
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Here is what the roller mounts to, and even though it isn't pictured, the door cable is attached to this bracket.
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I don't know what the bolts are grabbing to secure the roller to the door, which makes me question whether trying to use a larger bolt will work. Is there something inside the door, or are the bolts just grabbing the bracket on the door itself, and the thin piece of sheet metal behind it, where the cable is mounted. Any advice from door installers, or people with experience with Amarr doors would be greatly appreciated.

 

[djjsr]

Heed that warning! That bracket holds the cable which has A LOT of spring tension on it. One screw will not hold it in place for long. Get a professional on it. You probably have to get that panel replaced.

Short term, quick and temporary fix, you could drill those 2 holes through the panel and use nuts and bolts to hold it in place. Use a couple of fender washers on the outside of the panel and use nyloc nuts on the inside so you can snug them up and avoid crushing the skin.

DO NOT REMOVE THAT RED BOLT !!!!!!!!!!

 

[BTC]

I'm definitely not going to remove that bolt. The door has been like this for several months. I guess I'm hoping the manufacturer will take care of this if it's a major repair. I'm pretty sure the installer and builder aren't going to do jack squat.

 

[djjsr]

Unfortunately, I don't think it's a manufacturing defect, so I'll be surprised if they help. The installer probably over tightened those 2 screws and stripped out the threads.

 

[BTC]

That's certainly possible, and I'm pretty sure the installer has no interest in resolving the issue. I plan to contact Amarr just to get their input on the best way to proceed. I really don't want to drill completely through the panel, and it would also be nice to avoid the expense of having to replace it.

 

[upndown]

Have you contacted your builder? He should be responsible for warranty work of this nature!! Subcontractors tend to react quicker to the builder than a homeowner. Depending on the builder and door co, you may have voided the warranty by touching it..I hope not!

 

[LennyTheLizard]

I would politely mention to the manufacturer and your installer that you are posting their defect on a national website called Garage Journal.com where 10s of thousands of potential customers are reviewing everyday.

I think they will quickly find a solution to help you out!

 

[BTC]

I don't believe I've contacted the builder regarding this particular issue. I guess the house is still under warranty considering that I moved in 10/01/2011 and Michigan requires builders to provide a warranty of 18 months. Hopefully my builder will be more responsive than the installer. The installer told me to leave my door open twice, and didn't bother showing up either time. Based on feedback I've gotten from other customers, as well as people that have worked with him, it's not that surprising.

I have not touched the door. The roller essentially fell off. I may have had to remove it to prevent it from jamming in the track, but I honestly can't remember.

Maybe when I contact Amarr, I can provide the link to this thread so they can see the pics.

 

[Kevin54]

Heed that warning! That bracket holds the cable which has A LOT of spring tension on it. One screw will not hold it in place for long. Get a professional on it. You probably have to get that panel replaced.

Short term, quick and temporary fix, you could drill those 2 holes through the panel and use nuts and bolts to hold it in place. Use a couple of fender washers on the outside of the panel and use nyloc nuts on the inside so you can snug them up and avoid crushing the skin.

DO NOT REMOVE THAT RED BOLT !!!!!!!!!!

I looked at my bottom roller and my bracket is probably 6" tall, wraps around the side, and has 5 bolts holding it on.

For the OP, if all you have are a couple of bolts holding the cable bracket, I would look into retrofitting the bottom bracket with another brand from a different door if possible. You should be able to get a bracket(s) from your local box store in the garage door area, or go to a garage door company and get a pair. Two small self tappers holding all of that pressure from the cable is an accident just waiting to happen. It also looks like he left out some bolts by the extra hole that have nothing in them.

 

[AndyL]

Amarr seems to use red teks for most of their hinges...

For the bottom bracket, 2 1/4" self drillers in the holes it appears to have been attempted to install teks into...

For the basic roller bracket, just run the next size up of self drillers. Unfortunately it's fairly common with "installers" these days, I've had a young padawan with me lately, I can't understand how he can't hear when the tek bottoms out and starts stripping... OMFG it drives me nuts, no matter how many times I tell him, he just keeps on spinning that screw...

 

[Chad M]

I would just drill two or even three new holes adjacent to the existing ones, better than new if you can fit a third screw.

 

[Kevin C]

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/nutserts/aircraft-nutsert?

Nutsert

http://aircraftproducts.wicksaircraft.com/viewitems/nutserts/hi-torquer-expandable?&bc=100|1012|1093|1094

Low cost installation tool.

Nutsert's unique swaging action and the axial knurl under the flange are the secrets behind its superior holding strength. Nutserts are a one-piece design consisting of a nut portion and a sleeve portion. A rotating tool mandrel, which is inserted into the threads from the sleeve side, causes a separation at the grooved break area, drawing the "nut" portion into the sleeve. As the nut portion pulls-up inside the sleeve, the sleeve is expanded, exerting a powerful 360 degree swage fit against the parent material This expansion also causes the axial knurl, which is under the flange, to bite into the side of the hole, while the placing tool nose rolls the flange over, causing an additional locking against the top edge of the hole

Another possible solution. This is a great way to get threads into blind metal. Might be overkill, or it might be what they should have used from the factory. The down side is you will need to remove the tension from the spring to get the bracket off.

 

[JakeKohl]

no biggy. Just go to the next larger screw. You may need to remove the bracket and open up those holes to allow enough clearance for the larger diameter threads, however. With the door fully open, there should be very little tension on the cable. Open the door fully, prop it open securely (2x4s, etc.), wrap tape around the cable drum (so the cable doesn't spring out all over the place), remove the cable, remove the bracket, fix, and reinstall. Have someone brace your door prop while you mess with the cable so it doesn't accidently drop your prop.

 

[never enuf time]

It ***** but you really don't want the guy that screwed it up in the first place " fixing " it.

If you 've called him twice, I would fix it myself & bill him for the materials.

That lower bracket is different that other , but I like how you can replace it without losing tension on the cable.

Fill the holes with something & drill new holes. Could predrill for new holes flanking those two too.

 

[upndown]

My bad BTC, you did the right thing removing the roller bracket! If you don't get a reasonable response from the builder or door co, just get some longer Tek Screws..Drill out either side of the red screws. Remove them and you should be able to get one in the center too!! Then call the registrar of contractors (if you have one) and start yelling!! They both got paid..No reason for them to shun their ******* responsibilities

 

[kbs2244]

With the door up, to relive the cable tension, drill through the door and install some carriage bolts from the outside in.
One hole at a time.
They will be much stronger.

BTW
I would check your door balance.
That doesn’t happen unless there is unusual stress on the screws.

 

[upndown]

^Yikes.. This type of door is not designed to be thru bolted!! Thin metal skin outside..Thin metal skin inside..Foam in between..With a thin metal end cap screwed or riveted on. Nothing at all to hold the head of a thru bolt!! That is exactly what happens when you over tighten screws that are too short with an impact.

 

[kbs2244]

Sorry.
I should have thought of that.
I am used to wood doors.

 

[upndown]

^ They don't make them like they used to!!

 

[BTC]

I went to a local bolt and screw place last week sometime to pick up some bolts I thought I might be able to use. They didn't have anything exactly like what came out of the door, and I'm not sure whether they will work. They're the next size up. I think the bolts that came out of the door are 1/4"x3/4". The bolts they gave me are 5/16"x3/4". I told the guy what I was trying to do, and he thought I might need to drill out the brackets to accommodate the larger bolt, else the threads would get screwed up putting them in. I haven't looked at places like Lowe's or Home Depot. You can see some of the metal from the door on one of the old bolts in these pics.

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I guess my big question would be what are these bolts grabbing? I don't know whether there is some metal within the panel itself in that area or what. It's kind of hard to tell. I know I see some insulation, but I'm not sure whether I see anything else. If there is no metal inside of the panel, the only other things they could be grabbing are the thin sheet metal of the door, another thin piece of sheet metal on the exterior of the panel in that area, and then the bracket where the cable mounts, which does wrap around the end of the door. I think the bracket where the cable mounts is only held in place by the single bolt you can see in the pics, but I would have to confirm that.

I sent an email to my builder this afternoon. I'll see what he says, if anything. I'm also planning to contact Amarr sometime this week to see what they say. I'm guessing I will be left to resolve this myself.

I really appreciate all of the feedback. This site is a great resource.

 

[BTC]

After posting that last post, I doubt the bracket where the cable is attached is providing any kind of grab point because the old bolts fit through the holes in that bracket.

 

[Kevin C]

Perhaps this a better description of what I was thinking of. The insert would go into the doors sheet metal.

 

[upndown]

Hey BTC, Not sure what those screws are for? Tek screws have a tip that looks like a drill bit, Doesn't matter..That bottom fixture was not installed correctly!! If you look at your last picture of the bracket..there's a hole straight up from the red screw,that should have a red screw as well, their way of warning you it's under Pressure. The roller bracket should have been installed with longer self tappers!!! Installer was either in a hurry or a DUMB ***!! Throw that at the door co and see how fast they come running!!

 

[BTC]

Hey BTC, Not sure what those screws are for? Tek screws have a tip that looks like a drill bit, Doesn't matter..That bottom fixture was not installed correctly!! If you look at your last picture of the bracket..there's a hole straight up from the red screw,that should have a red screw as well, their way of warning you it's under Pressure. The roller bracket should have been installed with longer self tappers!!! Installer was either in a hurry or a DUMB ***!! Throw that at the door co and see how fast they come running!!

I'm not sure what those bolts are either. The orange bolts came out of the door. The other bolts are two that I picked up at a bolt and screw company. I asked for bolts similar to what came out of the door, or a self tapping bolt. They acted like they didn't have what I was looking for, and that's what they gave me. There is definitely something different about the end of the bolts they gave me. They didn't make me pay for them, which was nice. I may call them back and ask if they have Tek Screws. I've actually never heard of those before. I've just always called them self drilling, or self tapping. I'm not sure I've ever seen any that looked like a drill bit on the end.

I get the impression that you install Amarr doors? So you're saying that the installer didn't even use the correct hardware? When you say throw that at the "door company", I'm assuming you mean Amarr? I'm pretty sure I could throw lots of stuff at the installer and he would be unlikely to move in any direction.

 

[LEVE]

I've had good luck with a few procedures if the hole around the hole bracket is in good metal.

• I'll take a cold chisel and use it to deform the metal to decrease the hole size. This usually works for me, it may work for you.
• You could also take a small washer and rivet weld it to the metal bracket, using it as the mounting hole for the screw.
• Weld over the hole and re-drill a new hole.
• Maybe a nutsert?

Tricky, yes, but I'm dumb enough to try it.

 

[jstroede]

Ok several issues. First of all, yes the builder/install should take care of this. This isn't a deal breaker though. Whoever put them in just laid on the impact too long.

There is an example of a tek screw, which is basically a self-drilling and self tapping screw. We generally use a 1/4" x 3/4" hex washer head fine threaded tek. What you purchased is a self-tapping screw, usually used for thicker metal applications with pre-drilled holes, not thin sheet metal. The screws that came on the door are red painted for use on parts that are under tension.

You asked what you were screwing into. Behind the thin sheet metal that makes up the inner door skin as well as the door end cap, there is an inner plate where the hinges and brackets attach. Some run vertically in the section, some run horizontally. Regardless, there is a plate behind there somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 ga. to screw into. DO NOT THROUGH BOLT THE DOOR!!!

To fix this problem, I would source some screws like the ones pictured. They can be driven with a drill, but an impact is preferred. They do not require holes to be drilled. Just be careful if going through thicker metal as they will twist the heads off sometimes. Ideally though the builder will just take care of it.

John

 

[BTC]

Vegas is giving me odds of one in eleventy billion that this will be handled by my builder and/or door installer.

I just had a live online chat with Amarr. I didn't even know they offered that feature, and I was just on their site a few days ago. They're going to have a technician give me a call. They also said I could file a warranty claim. I'm going to wait until I speak with the tech before doing anything else.

 

[upndown]

Hey BTC, Man I like them odds..haha. I personally don't install Amarr doors, Nothing against them, their product didn't fail..that's installer error! however I am curious to see how they handle it because most just distribute their product and are not responsible for installers! Hopefully one of them will step up to the plate and get this simple fix taken care of for you!! Let us know how it works out..

 

[BudgetRacing]

I can't believe that this is even a discussion. Throw 2 teks in that roller carrier in a different spot (beside the old holes) and make sure to put another one in that top hole.

 

[johnny ro]

I can't believe that this is even a discussion. Throw 2 teks in that roller carrier in a different spot (beside the old holes) and make sure to put another one in that top hole.

Agree, he should just slap new ones in other holes and do not over tighten. This is a ten minute repair plus shopping for hardware and cleanup.

To the OP the thing holding old bolts in is the skin of metal of the door. Interior foam is just foam, it holds the skin in place but nothing else. This is a pretty flimsy construction, for sure, and its what they all come with on average doors.

 

[BTC]

I can't believe that this is even a discussion. Throw 2 teks in that roller carrier in a different spot (beside the old holes) and make sure to put another one in that top hole.

The feedback has been pretty extensive, and diverse, and I appreciate it. I'm not a "garage door expert", and I certainly don't want to screw the door up worse than it already is, so I thought it might be prudent to seek advice on a garage forum before marching off blindly into battle.

 

[macdabs]

If it was me just insert Zerts and use machine bolts with locktight.

Mac

 

[nehog]

Amarr seems to use red teks for most of their hinges...

The red headed fasteners are for those fasteners which are under load at all times. Parts of the spring system. The cable to the drum at the top of the door goes to the bottom bracket for example. Red is 'warning'!

With the door up, to relive the cable tension, drill through the door and install some carriage bolts from the outside in.
One hole at a time...

Nope, door will be sheet metal on the outside. I wonder if the installer used the wrong bolts for the roller bracket and that's why they came out/failed?