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Garage Door Pricing - Wind Load $$$

ddurrett896

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Purchasing two garage doors. (1) 9x7 to replace an existing door and (1) 18x8 for a newly built attached garage. Looking at Amarr Stratford ST3000 for both.

9x7:$760
9x7 with 120mph windload: $1,570

18x8: $795
18x8 with 120mph windload: $2,188

I'm surprised the windload doors are 2-2.5x a standard door. Looking online it appears it's just a few U struts.

I do live in Virginia Beach and we do get hurricanes. My old wooden doors were 50 years old and survived. Family/Friends I've talked to that recently replaced doors went with standard.

Is the WL version worth the added cost? I wouldn't even mind adding my own struts if I had to in the future. Thanks!
 
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GMCGarage

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Purchasing two garage doors. (1) 9x7 to replace an existing door and (1) 18x8 for a newly built attached garage. Looking at Amarr Stratford ST3000 for both.

9x7:$760
9x7 with 120mph windload: $1,570

18x8: $795
18x8 with 120mph windload: $2,188

I'm surprised the windload doors are 2-2.5x a standard door. Looking online it appears it's just a few U struts.

I do live in Virginia Beach and we do get hurricanes. My old wooden doors were 50 years old and survived. Family/Friends I've talked to that recently replaced doors went with standard.

Is the WL version worth the added cost? I wouldn't even mind adding my own struts if I had to in the future. Thanks!

Is the hardware tracks different? Most items fail in wind related storms due to the connections, not the item itself. Those are the weak points.
 

ransil

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The garage door i see in florida have more and bigger cross braces.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

kmacht

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Unless you expect a hurricane every year I would just get a standard door. If/when a hurricane is expected just brace the inside of the door with a few 2x6's spanning the door and screwed into the framing surrounding the door. Even with a typical hurricane your door isn't going to get a 120mph direct hit unless it is facing directly into the ocean or a big open field.
 

rustyjames

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Given the fact that there's usually a few days notice of an approaching hurricane you could take steps to brace the door.
 

driftpin

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Do it right the 1st time, and don't worry about it when the hurricane comes. Look for HVHZ rated doors meeting the Miami-Dade County product approval requirement. High velocity hurricane zone = HVHZ.
 

rlitman

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Is the hardware tracks different? Most items fail in wind related storms due to the connections, not the item itself. Those are the weak points.

I don't think so. As I understand it, the channel bolted to the ends of the panels prevents the panels from flexing in the wind.

Given the fact that there's usually a few days notice of an approaching hurricane you could take steps to brace the door.

Unless you expect to be out of town during storm season.
 

mike93lx

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If it is in the budget, i would do it right and get wind rated. What happens if a storm hits and you get water intrusion? The damage could be a lot more expensive than the door
 

lakeroadster

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Think about
  • the costs associated with replacing the doors again after they fail in a high wind,
  • the associated damage to your garage and automobiles if the doors fail in a high wind,
  • you kicking yourself in the **** for not doing it right the first time.

Stronger-B-Betta
 

CombatNinja

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I am honestly surprised that in Virginia Beach that hurricane rated doors are not required in order to have a homeowner's insurance policy. That said, if you are going to be in this house for the long term, just pay the money now and have one less thing to worry about. All these people just suggesting that you 'brace' your door real quick with some 2 x 6 lumber have probably never had to actually prepare for an impending storm of that magnitude. You are running around like a maniac trying to get everything put away and secured and you will need to open the garage doors 5000 times so you don't want them unable to be opened. Then, just when you think you are done, a relative will call and ask for help because they 'forgot' to prepare.
 

PAToyota

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Insurance. If damage is caused by an unrated door, they'll deny the claim. And it is not just the cost of the door. If the failure of the door leads to water intrusion, depressurization/roof blowing off, etc, etc then the entire claim gets thrown out.
 

fiataccompli

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dang, that still sounds normal or even cheap compared to the "attractive" 3 doors I bought for my garage & here in east TN, we don't expect hurricanes for at least a few more decades.
 

driftpin

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Having been in several dozen hurricanes, including Andrew, Wilma, and Irma, in southeast Florida, I suggest you prepare for 'the big one' now. The last thing you're going to want to do is to be fighting-over lumber at Orange or Blue 'home improvement centers' as the storm bears-down on your location, and all the weather broadcasters are whipping everyone into a frenzy of fear. I mentioned the HVHZ-rating, that's the standard you want to seek and to install if you are in an area where you could end-up with a direct hit. When Andrew hit the Disney-owned Arvida development Country Walk in Miami-Dade County, the design and construction of the houses allowed the gable ends to fail, which then allowed the windforce to enter the house envelope, and remove the roof sheathing. Given a direct hit what do you think the result of losing two 8 ft W X 7 ft H covered openings is going to be? Even if you have to evacuate, your home has a better chance of withstanding the storm with a HVHZ-rated garage door, or pair of doors. The next step would be to install impact-rated doors and windows, expensive, but worth-it. The Florida Building Code stipulates straps on both sides of ceiling trusses/rafters, and since many homes here are CBS, they get anchored into the concrete tie-beams. We got Clopay metal insulated garage doors and PGT impact windows and metal doors, when we remodeled our home several years-ago. Retro-fitting the strapping on our rafters to-be on both sides of the rafter saved us $6,000/year (!) in windstorm insurance, and cost-us less-than half that to do with the re-roof. A good investment.
 

ard

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Insurance. If damage is caused by an unrated door, they'll deny the claim. And it is not just the cost of the door. If the failure of the door leads to water intrusion, depressurization/roof blowing off, etc, etc then the entire claim gets thrown out.

You making that up?

We see people posting this nonsense around all sorts of home improvements, and zero evidence of this. A contractor installs an unapproved or unrated item, then HE is on the hook. But HOA Insurnace covers THE LENDER, and lenders will not let homeowners void their coverages across the USA. Homeowners can F-up, and insurnace still pays.
 

rlitman

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You making that up?

We see people posting this nonsense around all sorts of home improvements, and zero evidence of this. A contractor installs an unapproved or unrated item, then HE is on the hook. But HOA Insurnace covers THE LENDER, and lenders will not let homeowners void their coverages across the USA. Homeowners can F-up, and insurnace still pays.

Correct. Insurance may drop you if they decide that you're not worth covering, or they may sue you for fraud if you claimed you had a wind rated door and did not, but they don't just deny claims willy nilly.
 

driftpin

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You making that up?

We see people posting this nonsense around all sorts of home improvements, and zero evidence of this. A contractor installs an unapproved or unrated item, then HE is on the hook. But HOA Insurnace covers THE LENDER, and lenders will not let homeowners void their coverages across the USA. Homeowners can F-up, and insurnace still pays.

Did you read my post about the reduction in our insurance for having met the current code, for a home which was code-compliant when constructed (~3,000 sq. ft. ranch house, single story, CBS walls, concrete flat tile roof) in the 1950's? Back-then only homeowner's insurance was required, now we have homeowner's, flood, and windstorm insurance.

Here in south Florida, the mortgage co. can and will require you to have insurance for all-three, if you're in a specific category flood zone, as-determined by the recently-updated flood zone maps. If you fail to provide it, they will get a policy themselves, and it will be added to your mortgage. What do you think will happen if you stop paying your mortgage, because you disagree with their action to protect their investment in your real property? Foreclosure!

If you happen to live in an area where flood insurance isn't mandatory, you don't have to have it, however, even 30 years at current insurance rates for the flood insurance won't come-close to the cost of a replacement of the dwelling if The Big One hits. (median cost owner-occupied housing @2017: $242,900)
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/miamidadecountyflorida/HSG495217#HSG495217

Like Sgt. Friday said, "just the facts, m'am."

If you opt-out of optional coverage, because of the flood zone map putting you where flood insurance isn't required, and your home floods, your other insurance won't cover you, because the loss was due-to "rising waters."
 
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slow

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Here in FL, you can get a "wind mitigation" that takes into account your doors, windows, garage doors, construction style, roof design, roof underlayment type and roof straps and some other factors. It has a HUGE impact on your insurance premium. My homeowners insurance is cut in half due to wind mitigation, So from $2700 to just over $1300 a year. I second getting the wind rated doors and also check to see if you can get a discount for having them.
 

rlitman

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Here in FL, you can get a "wind mitigation" that takes into account your doors, windows, garage doors, construction style, roof design, roof underlayment type and roof straps and some other factors. It has a HUGE impact on your insurance premium. My homeowners insurance is cut in half due to wind mitigation, So from $2700 to just over $1300 a year. I second getting the wind rated doors and also check to see if you can get a discount for having them.

Right. Now if you were to claim that you had a wind rated door, and get your discount, and then your house was destroyed and the adjuster discovered that you didn't actually have a wind rated door, then they might have reason to deny your claim (as fraud).
 
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slow

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They actually require a third party to do the inspection, so they don't rely on the home owner to report what they have.
 

WNYflyer

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Well your wind speed ratings for the US are dependent on what code folks are using. Typically they are using a code called ASCE 7-05 or ASCE 7-10 for design wind speeds.

For Virginia Beach and the 120 mph wind speed they are quoting for your area it looks like they are utilizing ASCE 7-05. The bare minimum design wind speed in the US is 90 mph utilizing ASCE7-05 and is of course dependent on whether a structure falls within that area on the wind map. As you noted the closer you are to the coasts the higher your required design wind speed.

That being said, the design force/pressure on a structures typically varies with the square of the wind mph thus 120^2/90^2 = 1.78. Thus you have 1.78 times the pressure on the door with a 120 mph wind as compared to the 90 mph wind. So very simplistically your door should be at 1.78 times the cost of the 90 mph door. If your buying it and installing it yourself then you can probably do whatever you want but if a professional is putting it in then I would probably be surprised if they wouldn't require the 120 mph rated door. But you never know, I am sure there are plenty of folks will put in whatever you want.

Question, is the rest of the house capable of resisting a 120 mph wind? Super duper door but the rest of the house is going to be torn up if a 120 mph wind ever really hits?
 

driftpin

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Right. Now if you were to claim that you had a wind rated door, and get your discount, and then your house was destroyed and the adjuster discovered that you didn't actually have a wind rated door, then they might have reason to deny your claim (as fraud).

You need plans approval to change-out doors and windows, and do roof work, in Florida. The materials have to be approved and Miami-Dade County has its own P.E. doing review of materials, which they test for compliance. Miami-Dade County Product Approval is one of the most-stringent standards in the country. Florida International University (FIU) the state university branch in Miami, has a 'wall of wind' which can generate hurricane-force winds to test samples of materials and methods of construction. I have met and spoken with the P.E. in the past. I am a licensed plans examiner and life safety code/fire inspector, and have worked as a planner. The P.E. can go to the factory where approved building materials are being produced, and pull-off the assembly line products to be tested, they better meet the code. A building like this (below) could be used to test materials or methods of construction.



During inspections, if the materials are not as-specified in the approved plans, or better, the work would not be approved. One of the first things done in the event of a catastrophic failure is to examine the approved plans and to review the requirements in-place at the time of construction or work being performed, and the record of inspections. I won't sign-off on something not built to approved plans.
 
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kwb

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I dunno I just got a 16x7 door from Clopay that was more than your 18x8 wind load rated door. Granted it's near the top of the line but it doesn't sound out of line.
 

MushCreek

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I had to install a wind-rated door when I lived in FL. It was massively built, with big box beams bracing the panels, and heavier rollers and mounting hardware. The mounting requirements were also much more stringent. We were able to save on our insurance because of that door, plus window coverings. As far as cost goes, 1) They probably sell relatively few of those doors, so it cost them relatively more to make them, and 2) They charge a lot more because they can. I had no choice when I installed my new door- it was a code requirement.
 

rustyjames

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I am honestly surprised that in Virginia Beach that hurricane rated doors are not required in order to have a homeowner's insurance policy. That said, if you are going to be in this house for the long term, just pay the money now and have one less thing to worry about. All these people just suggesting that you 'brace' your door real quick with some 2 x 6 lumber have probably never had to actually prepare for an impending storm of that magnitude. You are running around like a maniac trying to get everything put away and secured and you will need to open the garage doors 5000 times so you don't want them unable to be opened. Then, just when you think you are done, a relative will call and ask for help because they 'forgot' to prepare.

Yeah, it would be real complicated and time consuming to place a 4x4 in the middle and rest the rear bumper of a car to it. I'll bet that would work better than a wind rated door.
 

rlitman

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Yeah, it would be real complicated and time consuming to place a 4x4 in the middle and rest the rear bumper of a car to it. I'll bet that would work better than a wind rated door.

First off, the door gets pushed and pulled. That 4x4 with the bumper wouldn't prevent the door from being sucked out or prevent panels from separating, so it is not even close to a wind rated door. If you want to DIY a proper door retrofit, look at what the real ones do:
https://securedoorbraces.com/product-information/

They bolt to both the header AND the floor, and to every panel of the door. Yeah, you could probably do that with back-to-back pieces of Kindorf, some U bolts for each panel (which would then leave holes behind), a lag into the header and an anchor into the floor. But that would take lots of time to setup, so what are you saving over a $200 kit?

Second, one brace is not really enough for a 16' door, if that's what you've got.

Third, even if you have a proper retrofit kit, that's no use to you if you're out of town when the storm is approaching.

And anyway, as has been said above, a proper wind rated door will get you real insurance discounts if you're in a location that calls for it, so it sort of pays for itself.
 
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CombatNinja

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Yeah, it would be real complicated and time consuming to place a 4x4 in the middle and rest the rear bumper of a car to it. I'll bet that would work better than a wind rated door.


Man, you're so right! I am scrapping my entire hurricane preparedness plan and just going with stuff you suggest from now on. I bet I can save big on hurricane shutters if I just run around the neighborhood and grab all the Real Estate signs I can find and tack those up!

Seriously, you would use a car to brace your garage door in a hurricane? Some people actually care about their vehicles and don't want the bumper destroyed.
 

ordpete944

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I over did my door and went with a 150 mph 16x7. I still braced the door with my suv bumper during irma. Just a quick 10k lb ratcheting strap to my brush guard added a little extra peace of mind. When I built it, I also doubled the rebar, rafter straps, sheathing nails and poured the walls solid concrete. (Attached 23x24x8 cbs) The garage is my hurricane shelter. The inspector told me I was nuts.
 

bad_idea

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A lot of folks from the middle of the country (no experience in a hurricane) an folks from Florida (much more experience in hurricanes than VB) replying to this thread. I grew up in VB and just recently moved down to NC. VB doesn't get REAL hurricanes. Even Mathew was just a huge rain storm. The Outer Banks pretty much zaps all of the energy out of hurricanes and we just get a heavy rain.

I recommend you get the regular doors and keep moving. You will never see a REAL wind storm in VB to test out the 120 MPH doors. If a storm does wipe out your regular doors the insurance company will replace them as you are not in a high wind zone that requires the beefier doors. Insurance can not penalize you for not complying to a standard that does not apply to you.
 

rlitman

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...If a storm does wipe out your regular doors the insurance company will replace them...

That's all well and good, but here's something to consider. Most homes destroyed by hurricanes fail BECAUSE the garage door fails. The failure of the garage door leaves a huge opening in the structure that allows the building to pressurize and blow the roof off. So, protecting your garage door is the best way to protect your entire home from a hurricane.
 

slow

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Hurricanes of 2004, we used a 4x4 and a jeep wrangler pushed back to supoort the door. House and garage door were built in 1989 so all pre Andrew updated building code.

Even during Irma in 2017 I used a 4x4, my wifes suv and some ratchet straps to provide extra support. That door was 120 mph wind rated but when you have massive storm like that, I figured any extra support would not hurt.
 

bad_idea

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That's all well and good, but here's something to consider. Most homes destroyed by hurricanes fail BECAUSE the garage door fails. The failure of the garage door leaves a huge opening in the structure that allows the building to pressurize and blow the roof off. So, protecting your garage door is the best way to protect your entire home from a hurricane.

You missed the most important detail of my reply. VB DOESN'T SEE REAL HURRICANES. PERIOD. Show me one hurricane in the last 25 years that has done substantial wind damage to VB. It has all been flooding damage. Again, up until last year I lived there all my life.
 

driftpin

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You missed the most important detail of my reply. VB DOESN'T SEE REAL HURRICANES. PERIOD. Show me one hurricane in the last 25 years that has done substantial wind damage to VB. It has all been flooding damage. Again, up until last year I lived there all my life.

Well it is true, you only need that door lock for the few minutes when the burglar is trying the latch. Other than that, you can leave the door unlocked. The problem is, when will he arrive?

The building code is a minimum, you can exceed the code. Prescriptive codes tell you what meets the code at a minimum, so if you wish to build above that standard, you will have a greater degree of protection.

If the requirement is 120 mph rating and wind pressure levels of certain values, it's relatively cheap to exceed those in your build and as I mentioned, the high-velocity hurricane zone (HVHZ) rated products, labelled as complying with the Miami-Dade County (FL) product approval rating are going to do a better job of protecting your most-expensive asset (most peoples'), your home.

Having been a first responder for many hurricanes, and having spent time going from one building to the next, searching for victims, or from one plot to the next, searching through the rubble, after a catastrophic failure of the envelope's complete structural failure, I would and have exceeded the minimum requirement, given the choice, at our principal residence. After Andrew, I was part of a crew which went as a work party to do a complete tear-off of a co-worker's single family residence roof. I'll never-forget being on his roof, and as-far as you could see, in every direction, homes missing their shingles/tiles/tarred-down flat roofs. An interesting feature, as the eye passed-over the area, the wind originates from opposite direction. The pine trees were totally-denuded of their branches, except in one direction. For 345 degrees, the branches were gone, ripped-off the pine trees, but for that 15 degree position, the lee-side of the wind direction, where the tree trunk sheltered the branches, in a vertical line from the lowest branches to the highest. It was a very-graphic depiction of the force of the wind, and the direction from-which it came. The hurricane gave the pine trees a Mohawk! Their neighbor had a flat-roof family room on the back of their home, and all that was left were three walls extending-off the main structure. All the rafters/trusses, the roof sheathing, the waterproof covering, probably tar and gravel at that time, just-gone!

My -ex sister in law lived much-closer to where Hurricane Andrew made landfall in south Miami-Dade County FL. She was living in a recently-built home, so she assumed they would be safe there, which wasn't the case. Just before the storm made landfall, it was predicted to hit the county line between Miami-Dade County and Broward County (city of Miami and city of Ft. Lauderdale metro areas) but it took a turn to the south, and made landfall in Homestead (those of you who are NASCAR fans will recognize that). When the storm arrived, she was trapped, and had to wait it out. She called another family member, and was giving a running commentary about the sounds she heard. She said that the house, a 2-story, was constantly being bombarded by what she assumed was air-borne debris slamming-against the house. They were taking refuge in a bathroom on the 1st floor. She heard a tremendous sound and the wind noise got much louder, and her last report before the phone line went dead (not many people had cellphones in 1992) was, "I think the roof just came-off the house!" Then the phone went dead. The storm hit at night, by the morning, it was all-over but for the inspection of damage. That, and a couple of years of demolition, replacement of thousands of homes, repairs to thousands of others, and to all-sorts of structures. She took the insurance check and moved from Miami-Dade County to Broward County.

http://www.miamidade.gov/building/library/productcontrol/noa/17080925.pdf
 

lakeroadster

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Right. Now if you were to claim that you had a wind rated door, and get your discount, and then your house was destroyed and the adjuster discovered that you didn't actually have a wind rated door, then they might have reason to deny your claim (as fraud).

..... deny the garage doors and subsequent damage resulting from the garage doors. But not the entire claim for the destroyed house.

Again, as was asked previously, anybody have 1st hand knowledge of a claim being denied on such a small discrepancy?
 

NUTTSGT

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.........Retro-fitting the strapping on our rafters to-be on both sides of the rafter saved us $6,000/year (!) in windstorm insurance, and cost-us less-than half that to do with the re-roof. A good investment.

A $6K savings ? Holy cow, how much does homeowners cost a year down there in Florida. That savings would be like 5 years of insurance premiums up here.

:wtf:
 

Nowater

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A $6K savings ? Holy cow, how much does homeowners cost a year down there in Florida. That savings would be like 5 years of insurance premiums up here.

:wtf:

Wind insurance is expensive.

Wind insurance costs vary widely according to how the structure is built and when. Also the insurance company may require that the construction methods be inspected by a licensed inspector. That inspector completes a form listing various items that reduce wind losses, such as impact resistant windows and doors, roof materials and tie down methods, and more items. I am one of those people licensed to do those inspections.

Point values are assigned for each item and the insurance company sets rates from there. Some policies have like a $10,000 deductible for wind losses. There are optional riders for increased building costs due to building to the new stronger codes. Remember, codes are a minimum.

Some older people throw caution to the wind, quite literally, by going without wind insurance if their house does not have a mortgage. Their homes tend to be older and would require a significant investment to harden to resist hurricanes. In their minds, they play the odds of living long enough to have a hurricane strike close to their house versus having a few coins to take to the casino. If their home is in a very nice area, the lot itself may be worth more as a tear down than what they paid for the lot and home in the first place.

I suggest people view insurance company bills before buying a house, remembering that any mortgage company will want a premium based on the newly financed value of a house.

Yes, wind insurance is expensive.
 

driftpin

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A $6K savings ? Holy cow, how much does homeowners cost a year down there in Florida. That savings would be like 5 years of insurance premiums up here.

:wtf:

Our current windstorm insurance carrier quoted us $9,000 for a renewal, before the re-model. Part of the reason for the re-model was to get the premium lower for the three policies we are required to carry: comprehensive, windstorm, and flood. Our windstorm deductible is about 1/3 the cost of a new roof. Doing the to-code renovations for windstorm mitigation gave us a ~2/3 reduction in the annual premium. Remember that the valuation of the house also determines the premium, the most-recent sale on the block was across the street, almost exactly the same size, it sold for seven figures, and had also been recently remodeled.
 

rerod

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Even with a typical hurricane your door isn't going to get a 120mph direct hit unless it is facing directly into the ocean or a big open field.
Ancient thread resurrection notice...

My door will face south with no obstructions and from what Ive been told, could be the weak link if under rated.
If it fails, the building gets pressurized and could blow the roof off.

There's a dealer installer in Marshalltown IA who's an authorized dealer for AMARR, Raynor, LiftMaster, Clopay, IDEAL Door.
I keep reading about Raynor and Clopay, but which manufacturers should I consider? And I assume the good ones will have a option for a 115 mph door to match the wind rating of my new garage.

Thanks.
 
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