Garage Door Replacement

[MrA]

I'm looking to replace my old garage door. These garage door guys don't make it easy. They all want too much $$! I've read through several manufacturers installation instructions. This is something I feel very comfortable doing myself. Choosing which manufacturer to go with is another matter. Just finding where to purchase a door directly has been a challenge. I finally found a door installer that would tell me where to get one. There is a large distributor of First United Doors, I can pick up a garage door 6 days a week, $470. There is Overhead Door, 6 days a week pickup, $435. Then, I can order a CHI door, 2 weeks delivery, $455. Clopay, Wayne Dalton, Amarr will sell me a garage door, all in the $600-$700 range. Raynor is dealer only, $990 quote. First United has lifetime warranty. The others have 15 year warranty. All the same type of door, 25 guage steel, raised panel, non insulated, 15X7. I guess it comes down to what is available, how long I want to wait for delivery, and what I want to pay.

 

[bdbecker]

And your question is?

 

[manwithtools]

If we knew where you were located we might be able to recommend a better deal.

Putting your location in your profile will help with questions like this in the future.

I had 8 X 9's fully insulated raised panel metal installed last fall for $600 each. I think he told me 15 x 7's were $800. If you have never installed a garage door that size, be prepared for a learning curve. I'd recommend at least one helper. You'll want to be careful on the springs as well. Also, do you have a way to transport something 15' long?

I have installed doors myself in the past, I decided for this set of doors I'd let them do it. Was glad I did when it was said and done. They delivered, installed three doors and were gone in four hours on a day I did not have to take off from work.

 

[MrA]

And your question is?

Question is, why get a Raynor over a First United. Or should I choose Overhead? Right now, I just see a bunch of similar doors.If any of these are better than the others, they aren't letting me know.

 

[manwithtools]

I forgot to add, my new ones were CHI, as were the 15 year old ones on the house. The ones on the house have held up well and that's why I chose to stay with CHI for the pole barn rebuild project last fall.

 

[MrA]

If we knew where you were located we might be able to recommend a better deal.

Putting your location in your profile will help with questions like this in the future.

I had 8 X 9's fully insulated raised panel metal installed last fall for $600 each. I think he told me 15 x 7's were $800. If you have never installed a garage door that size, be prepared for a learning curve. I'd recommend at least one helper. You'll want to be careful on the springs as well. Also, do you have a way to transport something 15' long?

I have installed doors myself in the past, I decided for this set of doors I'd let them do it. Was glad I did when it was said and done. They delivered, installed three doors and were gone in four hours on a day I did not have to take off from work.

Thanks for your response. I can't stomach paying a guy $300-$400 for a few hours work that I can do myself. I have to repair the old framing also, something that makes these guys see more $$. You'll always get a better deal in Tenn. than I will here in CA. I'll have to refinish the jambs, remove the old one piece tilt up door. I'll install new mounting jambs inside. I have never installed a garage door in my life. I have read the specs, drawings, instruction. It is pretty straight forward, I understand each step. It's just a big square that goes up and down. The fully insulated, steel backed First United, 25 guage 15'X7' is $750, just for the door. CHI prices are similar, but 2 weeks out for delivery. Insulated garage doors are said not to be worth the added expense in most situations.

 

[manwithtools]

Agreed on the TN vs CA comment, that's why it's good to know locations. Insulated vs. not is a toss up. If you heat or cool that space then it's a must have in my opinion, it helps keep things quieter too, both from an outside noise prospective and operation of the door too.

You can do it yourself for sure, just work safe and be most careful with the springs.

 

[PoorOwner]

If you don't mind me asking. Does it really matter insulation r6 vs r9 and is it worth it to get r12? Will I notice any difference beyond R9 in CA?

I think the difference is the core thickness increase to 2" and the R value automatically added to r12, or r12 to r16.

** just put in a 1 ton AC in my garage

 

[MrA]

I tend to believe that an insulated garage door has no added benefit. As soon as the door opens, you lose all your hot or cold air. Since you have installed AC, you probably keep the door closed? Here is an article I read on the subject
http://www.consumersdigest.com/home/article/open-shut-best-buys-in-steel-wood-garage-doors

 

[BleedingBlue]

I tend to believe that an insulated garage door has no added benefit. As soon as the door opens, you lose all your hot or cold air. Since you have installed AC, you probably keep the door closed? Here is an article I read on the subject
http://www.consumersdigest.com/home/article/open-shut-best-buys-in-steel-wood-garage-doors

What if there is a living space above the garage? I have been thinking about this topic for a while since our bedroom is partially above the garage.

 

[MrA]

What if there is a living space above the garage? I have been thinking about this topic for a while since our bedroom is partially above the garage.

"Building codes require that the walls and ceiling that separate your home from an attached garage must be air-sealed and insulated. For this reason, independent energy experts say, little, if any, heat transfers from the house to the garage" If your house isn't built this way, an insulated door wont help. I know here in California, garage ceilings and walls are not insulated. I don't know how homes are built in Indiana, but if all your walls, and ceilings are insulated, an insulated door might be helpful.

 

[PoorOwner]

My garage ceiling where there is room above is insulated because I drilled a hole and saw the fiberglass. But the room only is over 1/3 the garage. I guess some houses have a flat face and the room is almost on top of the whole garage.

The attached wall also is insulated

But of course anywhere else is just drywall, air space and stucco.

I don't plan on opening the garage door any once everything is conditioned sufficiently. If I need to go out I will exit from the non garage door side

 

[NUTTSGT]

I tend to believe that an insulated garage door has no added benefit. As soon as the door opens, you lose all your hot or cold air. Since you have installed AC, you probably keep the door closed? Here is an article I read on the subject
http://www.consumersdigest.com/home/article/open-shut-best-buys-in-steel-wood-garage-doors

They will help and you don't lose all your heat/AC when the door opens. A nicely insulated garage that has been conditioned to a certain degree (heat/cool) will retain most of it's temperature easily when the door is opened to move a vehicle in or out. That big hunk of concrete floor will keep the garage a consistent temperature.

 

[manwithtools]

They will help and you don't lose all your heat/AC when the door opens. A nicely insulated garage that has been conditioned to a certain degree (heat/cool) will retain most of it's temperature easily when the door is opened to move a vehicle in or out. That big hunk of concrete floor will keep the garage a consistent temperature.

Absolutely correct. The thermal mass of everything we have in our garages / shops will dampen any temperature swing from a door opening. The largest single benefit to insulated doors is the elimination of heat gain from the sun. Stand next to an un-insulated door with the sun shining on it and then stand next to an insulated one.

From the article "Every time you open a garage door, you’re letting so much of the inside air out and the outside air in, that you’re essentially starting from zero all over again"

This so called expert has obviously never had a heated or cooled garage to make a blatantly false statement like that and clearly does not understand thermal mass.

Also from the article regarding insulation: "The tiny impact that this would make on energy consumption means it would take you decades to realize any return on your investment"

Again - if you are heating or cooling the space this is simply not true, it might only take months to recoup the premium paid for insulated vs non.

Also from the article you referenced. "the only people who should consider shelling out for an insulated garage door are consumers who use the garage as a workshop or a man cave and plan to heat or cool the space only while he/she uses the space. "

Well, that sounds like us, we all work in our garages and shops and many of those spaces are conditioned. So it sounds like the paid reviewers at Consumers Digest at least got part of the article right.

If you think about the typical member of this forum and their use of a garage space you can see why we would have much different opinions about this subject than a average homeowner and certainly different than the hired expert bozos at Consumers Digest.

Look at this recent post here on GJ for a real world prospective: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328660&highlight=foil

 

[MrA]

The entire garage must be insulated all sides, all the way around, top and bottom. What good is insulating one side wall, the door, when you're leaking on 3 walls and the ceiling? Anything less your throwing heating costs out the door. Your slab is not going to heat up from central heating. It is going to be cold from sitting on cold ground. unless you install radiant heat in the slab, there is no thermal mass to take advantage of..

 

[manwithtools]

The concrete is a thermal mass even if it's not insulated or does not contain radiant heat mechanics. If you have ever laid on concrete to work on a vehicle in an unheated garage and then done the same in a constantly heated garage then you would understand. It's slow to heat and slow to cool as well. Do a little research on this and you will see that the construction industry supports this as well.

http://www.concretethinker.com/solutions/Thermal-Mass.aspx

The thermal mass of concrete is in addition to the mass of other objects in the shop. The article is misleading in the sense they claim nearly all the heat is lost when you open the door - simply not true, only the heated or cooled air is what leaves or is replaced. You don't have to start over conditioning the environment when the door is briefly opened and closed, not even close.

If the rest of the garage is un-insulated then the advantage of the insulated door is negated somewhat but the resistance to radiant heat from direct sun is still of value if you are going to work in the garage with the door closed.

If you don't work in your garage then save your money and get the un-insulated version.

 

[PoorOwner]

I am going with insulation for sure because it faces west and feels like radiant heating

Just wonder if the upcharge from R9 to 12 or 16 would make much practical difference

 

[manwithtools]

I wouldn't get a door with any more insulation than your walls, certainly diminishing returns after that point.

 

[pmiranda]

If you don't get an insulated door, then you'll know where all the heat is being transferred in or out. Heat transfer is simply area times the R value times the difference in temperature. So if the door is shaded and the outside temp is close to comfortable most of the time, then you won't gain alot from an insulated door. If the door gets full sun in summer then insulation will help keep the garage cool since the outside skin will be pretty high. If you have a huge garage with a small door, the gains are small. If you have a one or two garage with a wide door, the gains are noticeable.
The math is not too hard, try running some numbers.

 

[MrA]

Ok, back to my question. What should I be looking for in choosing a manufacturer of garage doors? Since I don't want to pay for installation,because, well, if you read these instructions, it's just too easy. I'm not parting with a couple hundred $$ just because they all say it's dangerous. LOL. Crossing the street is dangerous. What features would make one manufacturer better than another?

 

[upndown]

I would just recommend something local especially if you're going to install a pan door(uninsulated) Another thing to consider is warranty! The manufacturer will warranty an issue if it's their fault, but any damage after the sale, you're on your own..shipping, installation etc. make sure you find out their policy before any purchase.

If your still on the fence about insulated or not, just do what I tell my customers. Just walk passed a white car versus black in the afternoon sun. Which would you rather have on the front of your garage?

No one ones what your skill levels are, but the dangers are there and they are real! Don't take this undertaking lightly.

 

[PoorOwner]

I think the brands are comparable. Installer skill and fit and finish is important and those will be my criteria for choosing. Maybe a single door is much more manageable to DIY though

 

[imnutz]

A polystyrene insulated pan door is probably 90% of the insulated market, doesn't add a lot of insulation value nor strength due to its' construction - before you plunk down cash, compare pan type styrene to foamed-in-place polyurethane - you will see a difference. And don't be misled by R-value - there is no industry watchdog for this, each manufacturer publishes whatever value they like - very few are tested and even fewer are independently tested.

 

[jstroede]

A polystyrene insulated pan door is probably 90% of the insulated market, doesn't add a lot of insulation value nor strength due to its' construction - before you plunk down cash, compare pan type styrene to foamed-in-place polyurethane - you will see a difference. And don't be misled by R-value - there is no industry watchdog for this, each manufacturer publishes whatever value they like - very few are tested and even fewer are independently tested.

I would disagree with the 90% number, but that also varies greatly depending on region. In the south like Florida and Tx, uninsulated pan doors or possibly insulated pan doors are the norm.

That is a huge jump from insulated pan door to injected urethane. You are also talking like 2-3 times the cost. That's about like comparing a Chevy Cruze to a nice BMW or Mercedes....

As far as the R-value, I won't delve too much into this but I will say that changes are in the works.

John

 

[gnpenning]

Look for the type of rollers used.
Plastic, metal 10 ball bearing, nylon w/10 ball bearings.
Type of hinges and gauge of steel.
Is the door really 25 ga.
How are the styles constructed and attached.
Does it come with struts? How many, type.
Track, how are the stand off brackets attached? Are they adjustable? The horizontal track brace how long?
Some of the others things have been covered.

These things will separate the good doors from the rest real quick.

 

[MrA]

Look for the type of rollers used.
Plastic, metal 10 ball bearing, nylon w/10 ball bearings.
Type of hinges and gauge of steel.
Is the door really 25 ga.
How are the styles constructed and attached.
Does it come with struts? How many, type.
Track, how are the stand off brackets attached? Are they adjustable? The horizontal track brace how long?
Some of the others things have been covered.

These things will separate the good doors from the rest real quick.

Best answer! Thanks. That is the conclusion I came with. I purchased First United garage door. OverheadDoor was available also. First United comes with a winder called S3 Winder that winds the spring with a cordless drill. They it's a faster, easier wind for a novice. Plus, the warehouse didn't sell any winding rods. Winding rods are about the same price as the S3 winder, but the S3 stays with the door. It also doubles as the center spring mount. The winder, and the First United seemed better constructed. Has stiffer section stiles, nylon rollers over polyurethane. I especially liked how the panel section fit together. The tongue and groove between sections is stronger. also went with FU(ha ha FU) because their warehouse was right off the freeway on my way home. Just pull in, they loaded my truck as I paid. I tied it down and off I go. I got the universal 225, non-insulated, $507 out the door. I grew up throwing a basket ball at a sturdy wooden rollup that my grandfather built, so have always been biased against these tin can doors, lol. Tomorrow i'll repair the jambs and install the rollup. Lots of activity in the garage this weekend.

 

[Garcky]

Thanks for your response. I can't stomach paying a guy $300-$400 for a few hours work that I can do myself. I have to repair the old framing also, something that makes these guys see more $$. You'll always get a better deal in Tenn. than I will here in CA. I'll have to refinish the jambs, remove the old one piece tilt up door. I'll install new mounting jambs inside. I have never installed a garage door in my life. I have read the specs, drawings, instruction. It is pretty straight forward, I understand each step. It's just a big square that goes up and down. The fully insulated, steel backed First United, 25 guage 15'X7' is $750, just for the door. CHI prices are similar, but 2 weeks out for delivery. Insulated garage doors are said not to be worth the added expense in most situations.

Pay the man to install it for you. Here's why:

I've installed a couple of garage doors. I'm pretty good at that kind of thing. However, I ran into issues I didn't expect during the job. Instead of having a new door, all installed, in three hours, I spend two days doing, undoing, and redoing things. There's more to it than you think, since you're installing it in an existing garage and replacing an old tilt-up door, which is a job in itself, especially for a 15' door. You're going to need a competent helper, besides.

There is a huge difference in doing a job like that for the first time, and doing it if that's what you do, day after day. The instructions from the door manufacturer are always for an ideal installation environment. I doubt that's what you have, and you're going to have to install a new framework for the door, as well. You haven't done any of those things before, so you don't know any of the shortcuts or best practices in doing those things.

I guarantee that you're going to be getting into a job that's going to take you more than one day to do. The garage door installation crew you hire will get it done in half a day. Not only that, but the springs will be wound correctly and the safety stuff will be properly installed and aligned. Then, the adjustments for the opener mechanism will get done quickly and properly.

I'm not saying you can't do it yourself, but you're going to end up being frustrated, annoyed, and probably redoing more than one thing in the process.

So, pay the man. Really. You'll be glad you did. Watch them work, though. Then, if you ever want to do it yourself some other time, you'll have seen it done.

ETA: ****! I came into this thread from the bottom, so I didn't see it was from 2014. So, the guy has either done it himself or hasn't. Never mind.

 

[FredWanaker]

kind of weird to see a first post on a 7 year old post from a guy who joined a couple minutes ago.

 

[Garcky]

kind of weird to see a first post on a 7 year old post from a guy who joined a couple minutes ago.

I know. I'm pissed at myself for not noticing that the original thread was from 2014! Oh, well, maybe my post will help someone else.

 

[mike93lx]

kind of weird to see a first post on a 7 year old post from a guy who joined a couple minutes ago.

Report them. Mods will take care of it

 

[nadogail]

I pay for the knowledge and experience of professionals , When I want someone other than myself to be responsible for something I write them a check.

 

[jonesg]

Pay the man to install it for you. Here's why:

I've installed a couple of garage doors. I'm pretty good at that kind of thing. However, I ran into issues I didn't expect during the job. Instead of having a new door, all installed, in three hours, I spend two days doing, undoing, and redoing things. There's more to it than you think, since you're installing it in an existing garage and replacing an old tilt-up door, which is a job in itself, especially for a 15' door. You're going to need a competent helper, besides.

There is a huge difference in doing a job like that for the first time, and doing it if that's what you do, day after day. The instructions from the door manufacturer are always for an ideal installation environment. I doubt that's what you have, and you're going to have to install a new framework for the door, as well. You haven't done any of those things before, so you don't know any of the shortcuts or best practices in doing those things.

I guarantee that you're going to be getting into a job that's going to take you more than one day to do. The garage door installation crew you hire will get it done in half a day. Not only that, but the springs will be wound correctly and the safety stuff will be properly installed and aligned. Then, the adjustments for the opener mechanism will get done quickly and properly.

I'm not saying you can't do it yourself, but you're going to end up being frustrated, annoyed, and probably redoing more than one thing in the process.

So, pay the man. Really. You'll be glad you did. Watch them work, though. Then, if you ever want to do it yourself some other time, you'll have seen it done.

ETA: ****! I came into this thread from the bottom, so I didn't see it was from 2014. So, the guy has either done it himself or hasn't. Never mind.

I don't pay anyone just to watch them, I use youtube for nothing.

Times have changed.
Cut the middleman out, order direct from china.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804346029330.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21%24400.00%21%24400.00%21%21%21%21%21%402101c6e316840785861521147e7e4a%2112000029497843566%21btf&_t=pvid%3Adf829718-22c0-44d4-a32f-91f69d5050bb&afTraceInfo=1005004532344082__pc__pcBridgePPC__xxxxxx__1684078586&spm=a2g0o.ppclist.product.mainProduct&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

 

[Garcky]

I don't pay anyone just to watch them, I use youtube for nothing.

Times have changed.
Cut the middleman out, order direct from china.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804346029330.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21%24400.00%21%24400.00%21%21%21%21%21%402101c6e316840785861521147e7e4a%2112000029497843566%21btf&_t=pvid%3Adf829718-22c0-44d4-a32f-91f69d5050bb&afTraceInfo=1005004532344082__pc__pcBridgePPC__xxxxxx__1684078586&spm=a2g0o.ppclist.product.mainProduct&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa

OK, then...

 

[access]

What does one google to find their local garage door warehouse that sells quality doors for $500 out the door to the public? Or even $6-700. Most of what I see on google maps are garage door repairmen, or companies that don't advertise prices.

 

[mike93lx]

What does one google to find their local garage door warehouse that sells quality doors for $500 out the door to the public? Or even $6-700. Most of what I see on google maps are garage door repairmen, or companies that don't advertise prices.

Try googling "pipe dream" or "unicorns". Maybe even "drugs"

 

[jonesg]

What does one google to find their local garage door warehouse that sells quality doors for $500 out the door to the public? Or even $6-700. Most of what I see on google maps are garage door repairmen, or companies that don't advertise prices.

"Steel roll up garage door."

10 x 10 Roll Up Door Model 1000 Order Configuration

10 x 10 Roll Up Door Model 1000 Order 3905 configuration for roll up garage door

www.rollupdoorsdirect.com

$500 is shipped from China thru ali express or craigslist.

Roll Up Door China Trade,Buy China Direct From Roll Up Door Factories at Alibaba.com

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