Garage drain and gutter question for you guys, back up issue

[TT_Vert]

Today we had a quick heavy bit of rain and my wife noticed our garage drain had slightly backed up over the grate. So she went into the basement and saw two small spots where water got in. One of them has been repaired at one point by the previous owner and has actually leaked before. I also have two front gutter downspouts which may or may not the source of the basement leakage. My question is how do you guys ID where each of these gutters and drain go? I hoped maybe something would be on the plat of survey but no dice. I did run a hose down the garage drain and found it drains to a large, buried PVC pipe that parallels my driveway to the street to a gully and a large metal corrugated pipe under my driveway to there side.. (This also is the drain for two more gutters on a recent garage addition and it was in fact partially obstructed so I dug that out to ensure proper drainage. I don't think that would cause the basement issue but hear me out here.

The garage drain has what I think is a P trap in there (Is that typical?) and above that is another iron pipe feeding in. I have two front gutter downspouts that go underground into a 3" (I think) black corrugated tube which I have no idea where it goes (More on that in a sec). When I ran the hose down the downspout nearest the garage drain (On exterior wall of garage) I can hear splashing/gurgling out of that iron pipe that feeds into the garage drain but no water comes out of it. I cannot understand that nor can I determine where the corrugated tubes go. I have well/septic if that matters. I ran water for a good 10 minutes down that gutter and checked two access panels in my front yard which are about 20 yards from the downspouts. Logically I figured they fed into those. Basically there is a concrete square in the ground w/a 3" (Ish?) PVC pipe cemented into it and at the bottom of it there are 2 more black corrugated tubes which go perpendicular to the PVC pipe. I assume that is to distribute water. However these are dry as a bone so I really don't know what these are for. These can't be for septic can they? They don't smell but the are only about 20-25' from the septic tank.

Thanks guys, sorry for the basic questions, trying to reverse engineer this setup to understand what is going on here.

Included a quick and dirty drawing to try to help.

Thanks
Dave

 

[kbs2244]

2 boxes of food dye will give you an idea where a water source goes.

 

[TT_Vert]

I have no idea where else to look. The places i do know are either dry or have nothing coming out of them when I feed water in

 

[DGersic]

It has to be going somewhere. If it’s not coming out, maybe it’s filling something up. Big French drain buried in the yard maybe?

Get a plumber with a locator. Follow the pipe(s) and see where they go.


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[DGersic]

The black corrugated pipe you can see in your access box things may be perforated drain tile. They may be draining the yard *in* to this system.


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[SGKent]

may be perforated drain tile. They may be draining the yard *in* to this system.

or collapsed like so many of them do.

Looking at the photo, it looks like the lot slopes to the left looking at the garage. If this is so, that PVC pipe may be the outlet for the corrugated pipe if it runs from the gutter on the right to the one on the left. Do you have the ability to push a snake with water running into the corragated pipe to see if it is unobstructed? How about back up the PVC? Maybe a small furry critter pushed dirt into it to make a nest.

 

[TT_Vert]

or collapsed like so many of them do.

Looking at the photo, it looks like the lot slopes to the left looking at the garage. If this is so, that PVC pipe may be the outlet for the corrugated pipe if it runs from the gutter on the right to the one on the left. Do you have the ability to push a snake with water running into the corragated pipe to see if it is unobstructed? How about back up the PVC? Maybe a small furry critter pushed dirt into it to make a nest.

The image is a bit deceptive, there is very little slope from house to the driveway side. Just enough slope for drainage. I don't have a snake long enough but do you mean the corrugated pipe off the two gutter downspouts where I don't know the outlet of? if so, if it was plugged I'd assume the water would either back up the corrugated tube or come out of that one iron T into the garage drain as I think it has to be connected in some form since I can hear a water flow sound out of that floor drain T but no water comes out of it.

The long PVC that runs along the driveway is certainly free of obstruction as I'm able to feed water down the downspouts on the new additional garage and it flows out just fine. Given that there was an addition I don't know that the downspouts in question actually go to that PVC pipe that the newer additional gutters drain to. With that said the garage drain goes to that PVC as well so perhaps it is. I just don't know how to go about reverse engineering this. Nor do I know what the purpose of the two boxes w/ PVC and corrugated tubing in the front yard do. They're dry so it's probably not for the gutters but I don't know for sure.

I don't exactly understand how the yard would drain into corrugated tubes. Basically from what I can see is there is this concrete access panel w/ corrugated tubes going each way. Given the one closest to house has a PVC pipe cemented into it which appears to point to the house it probably comes from there. The sump pump also exits into a T which is also used to accept the one downspout if that makes any difference?

Dave

 

[DGersic]

The image is a bit deceptive, there is very little slope from house to the driveway side. Just enough slope for drainage. I don't have a snake long enough but do you mean the corrugated pipe off the two gutter downspouts where I don't know the outlet of? if so, if it was plugged I'd assume the water would either back up the corrugated tube or come out of that one iron T into the garage drain as I think it has to be connected in some form since I can hear a water flow sound out of that floor drain T but no water comes out of it.



The long PVC that runs along the driveway is certainly free of obstruction as I'm able to feed water down the downspouts on the new additional garage and it flows out just fine. Given that there was an addition I don't know that the downspouts in question actually go to that PVC pipe that the newer additional gutters drain to. With that said the garage drain goes to that PVC as well so perhaps it is. I just don't know how to go about reverse engineering this. Nor do I know what the purpose of the two boxes w/ PVC and corrugated tubing in the front yard do. They're dry so it's probably not for the gutters but I don't know for sure.



I don't exactly understand how the yard would drain into corrugated tubes. Basically from what I can see is there is this concrete access panel w/ corrugated tubes going each way. Given the one closest to house has a PVC pipe cemented into it which appears to point to the house it probably comes from there. The sump pump also exits into a T which is also used to accept the one downspout if that makes any difference?



Dave

I think your black plastic tubes are drain tile.

http://blog.armchairbuilder.com/2767/what-is-drain-tile/

Water drains down from the surface, through the soil, is collected by the drain tile, and runs in to the box. Water exits the box via the PVC pipe.

You would only see water in here while it’s raining, or shortly afterward. If the soil is dry, there’s no water to drain down in to the tile.

For reverse engineering the system, a plumbers inspection camera, radio locator, and probably a shovel are going to be needed. If you’re lucky, the camera and locator will be enough. If they’re not, you’ll need the shovel.




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[TT_Vert]

Thanks. What doesn't make sense is that if it was drain tile why would it be so far away from the house? These are at least 25 and 35' away from the house respectively and run parallel to the front of the house. The PVC pipe that appears to be the feed (Points towards house) is only about 6" below ground so in reality if it was gravity draining down that pipe it would be draining water just barely below the surface near the house which wouldn't really provide any benefit. Oddly on my plat of survey it labels them as septic lids but my septic is much closer to the house and underground.

I'm starting to think the stuff in the front yard is what I have attached and after doing more research that seems more and more plausible that this the septic drain field. I didn't know you'd have both a drain field and a tank but I'm fairly certain that is what this is, its' the only thing that makes any sense.

What confuses me is that these "fields" are plumbed in series not parallel. The first field (Field 1) would have to be full, before it'd even feed the next one as it goes from the tank at the top (I assume) to the box in field one filling the corrugate tubes at the bottom and on the top opposite side of feed to that box (PVC pipe from tank) is another pipe that connects the other one box w/ it's corrugated tubes at the bottom (Field 2). Make another crude drawing to help visualize what I'm saying there.



Still doesn't answer why I'm hearing gurgling in my garage drain (The pipe that tees into it) while I'm filling the gutter which goes into a corrugated tube on the other side of the wall to this drain yet no water comes out of that pipe. It clearly is tied in somehow just don't know how or where that dang gutter downspout goes. Unless it goes to a french drain that that garage drain also ties into. Maybe just at a higher level so if the french drain were to get to a certain level it'd drain into that pipe?


Dave

I think your black plastic tubes are drain tile.

http://blog.armchairbuilder.com/2767/what-is-drain-tile/

Water drains down from the surface, through the soil, is collected by the drain tile, and runs in to the box. Water exits the box via the PVC pipe.

You would only see water in here while it’s raining, or shortly afterward. If the soil is dry, there’s no water to drain down in to the tile.

For reverse engineering the system, a plumbers inspection camera, radio locator, and probably a shovel are going to be needed. If you’re lucky, the camera and locator will be enough. If they’re not, you’ll need the shovel.




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[TT_Vert]

Any other opinions on my recent findings/research?

Dave

 

[yeldogt]

In a heavy downpour 4" will be overcome and back up. Is the basement in the house?

I use 6" or 8" pipe for the main depending on what flow I expect.

For downspouts you run the 4" along the 6 or 8 for a bit so there can not be any back up into the 4"

 

[Rory Bellows]

No help where the downspouts go. But I do notice some trees. Are your gutters clean? I've found that overflowing gutters account for 90% of basement water leaks.

 

[TT_Vert]

No help where the downspouts go. But I do notice some trees. Are your gutters clean? I've found that overflowing gutters account for 90% of basement water leaks.

Gutters are clean, i check them often, no overrun.

In a heavy downpour 4" will be overcome and back up. Is the basement in the house?

I use 6" or 8" pipe for the main depending on what flow I expect.

For downspouts you run the 4" along the 6 or 8 for a bit so there can not be any back up into the 4"

I was mistaken, its a 6" feed to the street. What do you mean run 4" along the 6" or 8"? Parallel before they tie in? How does that resolve a backup?
I'm still trying to figure out this Tee feed into the garage drain that seems to tie into at least the one gutter downspout corrugated tube that goes underground. Despite no water coming out of it i hear a noise of water flow so I know it's somehow tied in. Just no idea how I get no water out of that into the drain.
Dave

Dave

 

[TT_Vert]

Did a bit more research and one last question. It seems the way the garage drain works is like this. The drain iron pipe goes straight down and about 1.5' down the pipe ends and it drains to soil. At the top of the pipe is another 1.5" iron pipe Teed into it that when the water gets to that level it goes into that and out to where i believe is the same drain w/ the rest of the gutters to the street. Is this a typical way of doing this? I'm confused why it would drain to soil rather than just right out to the same system the gutters do. Granted this is just for washing cars, hosing off the floor, etc. but I'm curious if this is a normal design.

Dave