Garage Fire Suppression System???

[REFLEXX]

gents,

I've always wondered if anyone makes a stand alone system that would put out a fire in a garage. Anyone heard of such a thing? Here's what my idea is:

1. a bottle of CO2 or Halon or ??? the size of a large welding tank in the corner or outside of a garage/shop.

2. copper(?) pipes to overhead "rainbirds" with fire sensors (like in an office building).

3. emergency buttons inside and outside (in case the fire is so big that you cannot risk going inside or cannot reach and it's not activating the rainbirds yet.

4. a universal kit, wher all you add is the copper piping to put the rainbirds where you want.

I've seen this exact system made for machine tools (bottle / piping / sensors / e-button) maybe it can be retrofitted to a garage???

Or at the very least, is there a regular smoke alarm that can transmit a signal to a remote bell/ringer??? My shop is detached and I would not know that there is a fire untill it's fully engulfed!

anyone?

 

[cc_rider]

You do NOT want a stand-alone sprinkler system in your house. Why not? Because by Code, it would be regulated by the Fire Department, which means THEY would inspect and test and certify it. Not just once, but every year (or two? not sure). This costs you money every time. So what to do?

There is a new-ish sprinkler system designed to be tied directly into the house plumbing; the sprinkler taps come off active water lines. I learned about the system while building a Habitat house; the plumber was running the pipes and explained the concept and its advantages. It adds about $1000 to the cost of the house (Habitat houses here are small, so let's guess it adds about $.75/sq.ft.), but gives a tremendous insurance break. A recent study of residential sprinkler systems puts it like this: the average home fire causes about $40,000 in damages, including smoke and water damage. A fire in a sprinklered home averages less than $2000 in damages! It won't be too much longer before insurance companies are going to demand sprinklers in new residential construction; Building Codes notwithstanding, if you don't have a system they're gonna jack your rates.

I don't have the details but I know it's out there and being used. Best part is, since it's part of the Plumbing rather than a Fire System, your plumber can install it and service it with no Code issues.

Good Luck!

chris

 

[Tyson]

I wouldn't do a large halon system.

Halon converts breathable oxygen into some other form. You can't smell or see it. If you were to have a fire or something else to set off the halon system in an enclosed area like the garage, it would sit in there until you opened the door. Danger being, you might walk into the garage from the house, start looking around for the source of the smokey smell, and before you know it you are passed out on the garage floor from lack of oxygen.

 

[Tyson]

P.S. To answer your last question.

You can get a smoke detector hooked up to your home security system and monitored 24/7.

 

[Stuart in MN]

There are large bottle Halon systems, as well as dry chemicals, sprinklers and other systems. All of them, particularly the Halon, are pretty expensive for a home shop. Also, as Tyson indicated the latest I've read about Halon is that it's not as safe as once thought...it turns into something toxic when used on a fire, I believe. Do some googling and you can find more info on that.

One of the garage companies (Griot's, I think) was selling some sort of canister that you hung from the ceiling, and if there was a fire it would release chemicals. I finally fell off their mailing list so I don't know if they still sell it or not.

For a garage, it's probably a better idea to use a heat sensor instead of a smoke detector...smoke detectors can be fooled by the exhaust fumes, sanding dust, etc. you may have in a garage. The heat sensor is triggered by a rapid rise in temperature. I have them in my garage, connected to the home security system (along with door and window sensors, plus there's a 140db alarm horn inside the garage.)

 

[CraigFL]

My garage has two heat detectors in it. The alarm company wouldn't put smoke detectors in because of the false alarm problem.

Halon has been used in large computer rooms for years so there must be quite a bit of info out there on hazards.

 

[REFLEXX]

Thanks guys.

I know the Halon has issues, but it's the most amazing stuff I've ever seen. Isn't it illegal anyways?

As for plumbing it into a water system, there isn't one there to tap into!

As for the fire/smoke detector. I want something with just a remote buzzer, NOT tied into an alarm company system. There's got to be a simple off-the-shelf solution.

IF not, then the heat sensor / alarm combo is the way to go.

 

[Tyson]

With heat sensors, would they be affected by pulling into the garage with a glowing red turbo under the hood....Frequently I pull into the garage after a hard run, pop the hood and do an adjustment, or just pop the hood to let it cool down quicker.

Or are these more of a ceiling temp sensor?

 

[74-77Camaro]

I work in a Data Center, and have been through a Halon dump. Guys doing some power work, drilled through concrete wall, power lines on plan were off by two foot (no way to check), small explosion / big fire. I was in other end of data center working on server. We had about 6 large tanks, 4' dia by 6' tall dump. You couldn't see a thing, tons of white smoke. I wasn't sticking around to see how much you could breathe and live through it. Gald I knew my way around the center.

I would think a sprinkler system would be cheaper by far.

 

[wilbilt]

The Aero-K system designed for computer server rooms might be something to look at:

http://www.periphman.com/fire/computer-room-fire-suppression.shtml

Our newest school has a water-fed sprinkler system throughout...including the server room. I shudder to think what the $$$ damage will be when those things deploy over the expensive electronics in there.

 

[Stuart in MN]

With heat sensors, would they be affected by pulling into the garage with a glowing red turbo under the hood....Frequently I pull into the garage after a hard run, pop the hood and do an adjustment, or just pop the hood to let it cool down quicker.

Or are these more of a ceiling temp sensor?

They mount up on the ceiling, generally right in the center (or there'll be a couple along the centerline of the garage if it's a big one.) I doubt you'd set them off with the turbo, even if you parked the car so the open hood was directly underneath the sensor.

 

[REFLEXX]

I went to the SEMA show last year and had a short chat with some guys that make fire extinguishers. I brought up my suggestion of a system for a garage or shop. They didn't have such a product.

Then today I get an e-mail. I'm not saying that it was my suggestion, just seems timely for them to come out with EXACTLY what we discussed. I should have kept the guy's card!

I'll be there and I'll check it out. Let's see if the price is reasonable. Fire is honestly one of my biggest fears in my shop.

-----------------------------------------
"Dear Gene,

New system from H3R Performance provides 24-7, 365 day protection for trailers, garages and repair shops

Featuring an EPA approved “clean” extinguishing agent, the HalGuard™ Automatic Fire Suppression System provides around the clock protection for transport trailers, garages or repair shops. The system consists of a steel cylinder charged with a unique, non-toxic, non-conductive and non-corrosive clean agent gas, capped with one of four thermally actuated heads. When the head detects an ambient temperature higher than it’s rating, the system activates to rapidly discharge the clean agent to flood the space with an inert and invisible gas, which extinguishes the fire.

The system is very easy to install with common tools, and there is no piping or electrical power connections to consider. Should a system discharge occur, the clean agent provides total flood protection of the space to extinguish the fire, and it does not leave a mess or damage vehicles or surfaces as compared to traditional dry chemical or water-based fire sprinkler systems.
Whether used in a transport trailer, shop or garage, the HalGuard™ Automatic Fire Suppression System should be mounted in the center of the ceiling, with the thermally activated head closest to the likely source of a fire. The cylinder securely mounts to the ceiling frame of a trailer, or to the studs in a building. Mounting hardware and instructions are included. The system is rechargeable and includes a 1-year factory warranty.

H3R Performance suggests adding 50 degrees to the maximum (i.e. hot day) ambient temperature conditions that are likely to occur, to decide on the most appropriate thermal activated head to purchase. The HalGuard™ Automatic Fire Suppression System comes in two sizes. The HG4500S contains 45 lbs. of agent and protects a typical 24’ long trailer or an enclosed area of 1,500 cubic feet, while the HG5500S is filled with 55 lbs. of agent and protects a typical 28’ long trailer or an enclosed area of 1,820 cubic feet.

They system and the full line of H3R Performance products will be on display in our SEMA booth# 20624.

Please contact me for more information on the HalGuard™ Clean Agent Fire Suppression System, phone 847-847-7078, email [email protected] or visit www.h3rperformance.com.

Best regards,
Brian Drommer
National Sales Manager"
----------------------------------

 

[PanelDeland]

If you use your shop as a commercial/bussiness then you will in most cases have to be inspected byt he fire department once a year.They will check your exit lights,exit pathways,fire extenguishers, and take a look at exposed wiring/extension cords etc. Another thing they will want to see is the log where you have your extenguishers checked by a fire prevention company and where the sprinkler system gets a check(I believe it's every 3 months? here).These last two items tend to be a bit expensive.I'm thinking if you put a fire suppression system in your garage/shop you may find that you fall under a commercial use clause in your city/county/state where you have to conform to these regs.Just a though,but worth checking out before you have to deal with the regs.

 

[amwalker]

Since I work as a fire truck mechanic, I have the great pleasure (...not) of working with AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) as a part of the airport/crash rescue trucks. I thought I'd bring this up as it was a joke flowing around the email channels, but it may be a starting point for someone's fire suppression system.
Pictures of a hanger suppression system

edit:I forgot to mention, certain brands of the foam seem to be pretty corrosive, so in thinking, it might not be the best solution for our garages.

AFFF as per wikipedia:
"Aqueous film forming foams (AFFF) are water-based foams, frequently containing sodium alkyl sulphate, and/or perfluoro telomer as surfactants. They have the ability to spread over the surface of hydrocarbon-based liquids. Alcohol-resistant aqueous film forming foams (AR-AFFF) are foams resistant to the action of alcohols, able to form the protective film even in their presence."

 

[bmwpower]

Let us know if you get a price...I'm interested.

I went to the SEMA show last year and had a short chat with some guys that make fire extinguishers. I brought up my suggestion of a system for a garage or shop. They didn't have such a product.

Then today I get an e-mail. I'm not saying that it was my suggestion, just seems timely for them to come out with EXACTLY what we discussed. I should have kept the guy's card!

I'll be there and I'll check it out. Let's see if the price is reasonable. Fire is honestly one of my biggest fears in my shop.

-----------------------------------------
"Dear Gene,

New system from H3R Performance provides 24-7, 365 day protection for trailers, garages and repair shops

Featuring an EPA approved “clean” extinguishing agent, the HalGuard™ Automatic Fire Suppression System provides around the clock protection for transport trailers, garages or repair shops. The system consists of a steel cylinder charged with a unique, non-toxic, non-conductive and non-corrosive clean agent gas, capped with one of four thermally actuated heads. When the head detects an ambient temperature higher than it’s rating, the system activates to rapidly discharge the clean agent to flood the space with an inert and invisible gas, which extinguishes the fire.

The system is very easy to install with common tools, and there is no piping or electrical power connections to consider. Should a system discharge occur, the clean agent provides total flood protection of the space to extinguish the fire, and it does not leave a mess or damage vehicles or surfaces as compared to traditional dry chemical or water-based fire sprinkler systems.
Whether used in a transport trailer, shop or garage, the HalGuard™ Automatic Fire Suppression System should be mounted in the center of the ceiling, with the thermally activated head closest to the likely source of a fire. The cylinder securely mounts to the ceiling frame of a trailer, or to the studs in a building. Mounting hardware and instructions are included. The system is rechargeable and includes a 1-year factory warranty.

H3R Performance suggests adding 50 degrees to the maximum (i.e. hot day) ambient temperature conditions that are likely to occur, to decide on the most appropriate thermal activated head to purchase. The HalGuard™ Automatic Fire Suppression System comes in two sizes. The HG4500S contains 45 lbs. of agent and protects a typical 24’ long trailer or an enclosed area of 1,500 cubic feet, while the HG5500S is filled with 55 lbs. of agent and protects a typical 28’ long trailer or an enclosed area of 1,820 cubic feet.

They system and the full line of H3R Performance products will be on display in our SEMA booth# 20624.

Please contact me for more information on the HalGuard™ Clean Agent Fire Suppression System, phone 847-847-7078, email [email protected] or visit www.h3rperformance.com.

Best regards,
Brian Drommer
National Sales Manager"
----------------------------------

 

[MustangRick]

It looks like Halguard has the same stuff that data centers are now migrating to, FM-200 (also called FM-227.) It is replacing Halon, because Halon was so toxic. FM-200 is supposedly on the chopping block because it has CFCs also.

Most data center systems have a 10-30 second warning for you to get out before it goes off. Supposedly, you will not live through a full Halon deployment because all the oxygen in the room will be converted to what ever it does. Most systems have a kill switch to stop a deployment but they all seem to be momentary contact switches so you have to sit there and hold it until someone comes to take care of the situation.

 

[cw_racefan]

As far as price on the automatic Halguard ones, I was looking and the only place I found these was Summit Racing. Looks like $3400 for the bigger one, which is only good for 1800 cubic feet, which is what, about a 10x18 garage? BTW they want $2200 for the smaller one. Might be worth it if you have some irreplaceable vehicles, but for my 32x36 I'd need what, like 6 or 7 of the big ones?? Yikes!!!

Oh yeah, and they're a BC type, not ABC.

 

[icnsltmfg]

In the spray booths we had at Ford, each section (esp in the robotic section) had 4 cameras (1 in each corner). If one camera saw a spark a bell would begin to ring, if 2 cameras saw a spark, the bell would ring and 5 seconds later a high speed deluge system would dump high pressure water and fill the booth to suppress the fire. You did not want to get caught in the booth when that bell went off. It would push you to the floor and you would think you were at the bottom of Niagara Falls. Here is a test video from one

 

[1320stang]

Man, that looks like high pressure steam, which would probably be better than just high pressure water.

When I worked in the Telecomm industry putting in the little buildings (shelters) for cell sites, we used the FM-200 system in every shelter. Now pretty much everything has gone to the cabinets. I'd like to have one of those FM-200 systems and a pair of the wall mounted 5 ton redundant AC units they had hanging on the side of them.