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Garage floor densifier sealer

Pjsz

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May 12, 2011
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I put Euco Diamond hard densifier on my new garage floor yesterday. Awesome. i researched densifiers and epoxy a little and read here and got som local advice too. I wanted the concrete look and feel and not the toxic application of epoxy. Locals all tell me a different thing and prices vary for their preferred densifier products. One local manufacturer of densifier said i didn't need it on a hard troweled floor. Another veteran recommended Lapidolith and a lot of scrubbing and would sell it for 10.00 a gallon. Also Seal Hard . Another sold some "Pro ??? " stuff, can't remember name at 45.00 a gallon and i needed to etch the floor first and needed 5 gallons of it. Finally i settled on Euco diamond hard, the best selling , "lapidolith replacement" at a large company here in Nashville . " Costs 85.00 after tax for a 5 gallon bucket. Perfect for a 1000 sq ft floor.

Let me tell you i couldn't be happierd.
, easy to put on , no etching at a big company here in Nashville. It is a concrete densifier, lithium based. Couldn't have been easier to put on. Just pour it on or spray it. I didn't have a sprayer. I poured and broomed it around. It is water based and you just spread it around and keep it wet and let it sit for 30 minutes. Then spray the floor with water and sweep it away. Before i put it on, concrete sucked up water like a sponge. After, water beads off of it . Pretty cool stuff. Non toxic, water based. I applied wearing crocs without any gloves. o

What i learned is this is very subtle reacting stuff. You wont get a big sign that it is doing much of anything. :

The instructios say in a nutshell

"Apply it , scrub it in with broom or brush, let it sit for 30 minutes, keeping it wet all the time with diamond hard and then spray it lightly with water and sweep it to next untreated area. Dont step on dry floor with wet sticky feet or you leave permanent foot prints that have to be grinded out."

First, you can do a whole 1000 sq ft in 30 minutes. So you won't have a dry part to sweep the wash to.

Second, walk on the wet part only. Once you step in it, stay on the wet part.
As long as it is wet first before you step on it or set the bucket on it, its fine. That initial step with a tiny bit on your feet will react to untreated concreta and you will leave white foot print. I have a few.

Third, you can spray it with water a little to keep it wet.

Fourth, when you spray it with water after 30 minutes , just lightly spray teh whole floor with hose and sweep the water out on the apron. the proof of reaction on the hard troweld floor will be just a little white sudsy water, It doesn't look like much happened. Little specs will appear in places where it dries a little too much, like where the trowel wasn't quite as hard. You can check for that after coating the whole floor and whet those parts more.

It says "wash all excess diamond hard away and don't let it dry on floor or it will leave a milky white coloring you can't get out.". Well its impossible to tell diamond hard from water so its a bit vague. I washed my floor twice and swept it out the doors on apron. . I could see the second wash that it wasn't as sudsy . So i'm guessing that's what they are talking about.

Fifth, when you sweep the wash out on your apron, spread it around and it will seal your apron. Without adding any diamond hard directly to the apron, just spreading around the water wash, today when it rained my apron was beading water. This stuff is cool. Does'nt take much to work.

Its amazing how easy this stuff is to apply now that i've done it once,. Just pour it on. keep it wet , scrub it in with brush, walk on the wet part only, check it after 15 minutes and look for drying , hose that down scub it some more, after 30 min , hose whole floor down and sweep it out the door.
 
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Edger

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Great post Pjsz, it is not for everyone, doesn't have any color or gloss, but it is naturally anti slip, cannot chip, peel or turn amber with ultraviolet, no expensive preparation, lasts a lifetime, no dusting, much stronger than normal concrete, water proof and as you said 1,000sq ft. in 30 mins go to whoa for $80!!

It is not possible to do anything cheaper or faster. Not every garage needs to be sealed and if you ever want to do an epoxy coat over the top in the future you still can, but in the meantime it is strong and protected which means it will be a better base for epoxy anyway.
 

carguy1270

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At what point do you apply the densifier?
Am planning to pour my floor in the next 2-3 weeks. Do you have to wait 30 days for the floor to be hard, or can it be done sooner, or does the floor need to sit longer before application.
 
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Pjsz

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May 12, 2011
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At what point do you apply the densifier?
Am planning to pour my floor in the next 2-3 weeks. Do you have to wait 30 days for the floor to be hard, or can it be done sooner, or does the floor need to sit longer before application.

Euco Diamond hard says minimum 7 days cure. Some say wait 28 days.
 

nonhog

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Euco Diamond hard says minimum 7 days cure. Some say wait 28 days.

I'll have to check there site and see what they say about older slabs.
Wonder if it would seal a slab with serious sweating problems?
I sealed my shop floor with Miracle cover and its just o.k. Not all I was hoping for. Live and learn.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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At what point do you apply the densifier?
Am planning to pour my floor in the next 2-3 weeks. Do you have to wait 30 days for the floor to be hard, or can it be done sooner, or does the floor need to sit longer before application.

Legacy Industrial's densifiers can be applied as soon as you pull the forms. Some of our customers spray on directly after finishing.

Out-gassing has no effect on densifiers.
 

nonhog

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Out-gassing has no effect on densifiers.

How about hydro-static flow (term?) will it help? My house garage slab one day will be jack hammered out and replaced but until then it would be nice to be able to leave a cardboard box on the slab without fear of the bottom getting soggy and falling out. :lol:
My guess is no vapor barrier along with who knows what.

My shop is fine, I added a vapor barrier and few years now and no moisture up from the slab.

For the price I'd be o.k. with better. Input welcome.
Sorry if I'm hijacking. :beer:
 

LegacyIndustrial

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How about hydro-static flow (term?) will it help? My house garage slab one day will be jack hammered out and replaced but until then it would be nice to be able to leave a cardboard box on the slab without fear of the bottom getting soggy and falling out. :lol:
My guess is no vapor barrier along with who knows what.

My shop is fine, I added a vapor barrier and few years now and no moisture up from the slab.

For the price I'd be o.k. with better. Input welcome.
Sorry if I'm hijacking. :beer:

Nice hijack. :thumbup:
Densifiers will absolutley NOT stop water vapor transmission but will slow it down immensely. They will, however, stop efflorescence (mineral salts) that are left behind when vapor does pass through. They also eliminate dusting and improve surface strength.
 
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MDM

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How could you use this product and also add a color? I like the idea of this, however I would also like a cool look.Thanks
 

Edger

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How about hydro-static flow (term?) will it help? My house garage slab one day will be jack hammered out and replaced but until then it would be nice to be able to leave a cardboard box on the slab without fear of the bottom getting soggy and falling out. :lol:
My guess is no vapor barrier along with who knows what.

My shop is fine, I added a vapor barrier and few years now and no moisture up from the slab.

For the price I'd be o.k. with better. Input welcome.
Sorry if I'm hijacking. :beer:

Aquron 2000 (google it) will stop water transmission and harden at the same time. It is not a hardener as much as a water proofer, but it will harden as well.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Aquron 2000 (google it) will stop water transmission and harden at the same time. It is not a hardener as much as a water proofer, but it will harden as well.

Edger:
That sounds like a great product when used as a densifier. However, I think the claims are far fetched when you are talking about eliminating water vapor transmission through a slab.

This is a huge issue on the Eastern seaboard. If it could be solved by applying colloidal silica based densifier on it we'd have heard about it without having to do a google search.
 
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Cryptic1911

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How does densifier and stain work on a floor if you are welding / grinding in the area? Does it leave burn marks like epoxy and other products?
 

Edger

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Edger:
That sounds like a great product when used as a densifier. However, I think the claims are far fetched when you are talking about eliminating water vapor transmission through a slab.

This is a huge issue on the Eastern seaboard. If it could be solved by applying colloidal silica based densifier on it we'd have heard about it without having to do a google search.

Hi Scotty,

I like your website, products and advice because they are thorough and you have a solid range of good products. I was an Aquron applicator in Australia 15 years ago and it worked for me many times. Here is a link to their data sheet http://www.ultimateflooringsystems.com.au/PDF/AQURON 2000.pdf and I have no idea of their present profile in USA which is why I suggested people look it up.

Actual Aquron job:

I epoxy coated a garage floor and was called back after a month to be shown spalling of the surface of the concrete along one edge where the door closed at the back end of the garage. They had an entry at the front and another lift up door at the back so they could open it up to the lawn inside the property. The top of the concrete had blown off under the epoxy.

What happened is that the floor was water protected with poly film underneath, but the lawn ran up to the edge of the slab and water penetrated along that end from watering the lawn. When the door was lifted and the sun shone onto the concrete, the moisture inside the slab turned to steam and blew the top off in roundish holes about one inch diameter.

I ground back the epoxy, lightly sprayed with Aquron, waited a couple of days, patched, ground smooth and recoated. No problems after that. It seeps through the slab and completely water proofs, but apparently allows the concrete to breathe yet stops water molecules.

It definitely hardens and stops dusting, but it used to be quite expensive compared to hardeners and densifiers. It works in a different way and was only available in Australia through licenced applicators.

Keep up the good work.
 
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Edger

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How does densifier and stain work on a floor if you are welding / grinding in the area? Does it leave burn marks like epoxy and other products?

I am sure Scotty would agree that there is no effect from that on concrete that is different to normal concrete. Mostly you will not have stains and burn marks on the concrete like you would on an epoxy coat. Apart from some stains, the epoxy will still be fully bonded and make it easier to clean in a welding area.
 

nonhog

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Just got off the phone with a local installer of Aquron.
(If the original poster wishes we could start a new thread?)
They want 4 sq.ft. to install. Thats about $2000.00 for my slab. :shocking:
I'll have to compare to repouring the slab.
She did not know what the warranty was. :dunno:

Food for thought.
 

Edger

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Just got off the phone with a local installer of Aquron.
(If the original poster wishes we could start a new thread?)
They want 4 sq.ft. to install. Thats about $2000.00 for my slab. :shocking:
I'll have to compare to repouring the slab.
She did not know what the warranty was. :dunno:

Food for thought.

Wow, sounds a lot for a fine spray. They must be targeting only jobs that cannot be done another way so they can charge good dollars.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Hi Scotty,

I like your website, products and advice because they are thorough and you have a solid range of good products. I was an Aquron applicator in Australia 15 years ago and it worked for me many times. Here is a link to their data sheet http://www.ultimateflooringsystems.com.au/PDF/AQURON 2000.pdf and I have no idea of their present profile in USA which is why I suggested people look it up.

Actual Aquron job:

I epoxy coated a garage floor and was called back after a month to be shown spalling of the surface of the concrete along one edge where the door closed at the back end of the garage. They had an entry at the front and another lift up door at the back so they could open it up to the lawn inside the property. The top of the concrete had blown off under the epoxy.

What happened is that the floor was water protected with poly film underneath, but the lawn ran up to the edge of the slab and water penetrated along that end from watering the lawn. When the door was lifted and the sun shone onto the concrete, the moisture inside the slab turned to steam and blew the top off in roundish holes about one inch diameter.

I ground back the epoxy, lightly sprayed with Aquron, waited a couple of days, patched, ground smooth and recoated. No problems after that. It seeps through the slab and completely water proofs, but apparently allows the concrete to breathe yet stops water molecules.

It definitely hardens and stops dusting, but it used to be quite expensive compared to hardeners and densifiers. It works in a different way and was only available in Australia through licenced applicators.

Keep up the good work.

Edger:
Thanks for the kind words. Your experience shines through in your posts and many folks here have benefited from it.
I still question this product's ability to shut down water vapor transmission.
The tech-data information you provided clearly states that it: Allows necessary vapor transmission

That tells me water vapor is coming through. Probably at a lesser rate.
This is an attribute found in most densifiers and is relative to the make-up of the slab. We can claim the same benefit in our own product.
 

thegarageguy

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You know, I hate to break it to you guys but densifying a garage floor will only help your dust situation, maybe, because some are more porous than others. A very pourous substrate will just soak it up like a sponge. It will not stop vehicle fluids from permanently staining it. It will not give a polished or sealed look. Its a penetrating fluid and it is non film forming. It's used mainly in a step or a process of polishing. I am not saying it cant be applying to concrete as a stand alone system. What I am saying is that the slabs that usually benefit from just densifier alone are the hard troweled type surfaces that will mainly see pedestrian traffic.

Expectations are everything in this biz and I think many people here may be over blowing it bit.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Fernando:
With all due respect.
Densifiers do:

Help to bring color out of stained concrete
Strengthen slab surface
Eliminate dusting
Aide in polishing
Improve resistance to freeze/thaw effects
Improve weathering resistance
Reduce efflorescence
Repel water (with siliconate adder)


If you doubt this you are welcome to visit us and view some test slabs with me. I'll make you a believer!! :FIREdevil

One episode of Man Caves and a savior is born. :)
 
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thegarageguy

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With all due respect Scott, these claims are very general and deceiving. I don't need to see it in a lab when I've seen it for years in the real world. Hell, spit will bring out the color of stain.

All I am saying is that people need to understand and realize what to expect from a product over a substrate that varies from neighbor to neighbor and even within the same slab.

If you are just looking to dust proof and you have a decent garage slab, then screen it and apply. Don't expect much else.

BTW, I'v been on this site, spreading real world knowledge without ulterior motives or thoughts of compensation way before you came along and my 5 seconds of fame in Man Cave Show ;)
 

PaulR

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CAT FIGHT!!!!! MWRWAWR!!!!! :lol_hitti


Question: Can these densifiers be added to a 10 year old floor?

Follow up Question: Can they be added in an attempt to polish/burnish/whatever a 10 year old floor?
 

thegarageguy

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Follow up Question: Can they be added in an attempt to polish/burnish/whatever a 10 year old floor?

Yes, this is a sample of an approx. 100 year old floor with heavy mastic

What you see here, a level 2 polish is as follows;

step 1 - grind with pcd's and vac
step 2 - grind with 25 grit metal diamonds and vac
step 3 - grind with 70 grit metal diamonds, vac and auto scrub
step 4 - polish with 30 grit resins, auto scrub
step 5 - polish with 50 grit resins, auto scrub
step 6 - polish with 100 grit resins, auto scrub
step 7 - polish with 200 grit resins, auto scrub
step 8 - colored densifier
step 9 - 2 coats of polish guard
step 10 - high speed burnish

Level2PolishDemo.jpg
 
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LegacyIndustrial

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With all due respect Scott, these claims are very general and deceiving. I don't need to see it in a lab when I've seen it for years in the real world. Hell, spit will bring out the color of stain.

All I am saying is that people need to understand and realize what to expect from a product over a substrate that varies from neighbor to neighbor and even within the same slab.

If you are just looking to dust proof and you have a decent garage slab, then screen it and apply. Don't expect much else.

BTW, I'v been on this site, spreading real world knowledge without ulterior motives or thoughts of compensation way before you came along and my 5 seconds of fame in Man Cave Show ;)

Mi Amore :
We stand behind every attribute on the products we sell.

If you read the earlier posts, Edger and I were debating a particular product's claim of waterproofing a slab, not my product but another company's product.

That is when you swooped in and started insinuating that I was hocking snake-oil.

We can end this on a sour note or you can offer to buy me a coffee or a Miller Lite and I will gladly accept. Your call.;)
 

thegarageguy

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Scott, never blamed you for anything. You are putting words in my mouth. I don't know why you would take my opinion so personally. I have no problem with you nor your products. Matter of fact, i can say without a doubt that you offer some great products because I have used them for years with great success. My issue is not with you or what you sell. I am just coming in from a different approach than you.

Everyone is looking for a magic bullet and some may read this thread and think they have found the holy grail. I just don't feel that a densifier alone will suffice in a garage environment for most people. Most may be dissapointed by its performance and appearance or lack there of.

As for coffee....anytime.........beer, don't drink, so you'd be drinking alone. You have my number,call me anytime.
 

Edger

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Hi Garage guy,

I am the one who suggested recently that hardening would suit some people and I believe that to be true. I hardened hundreds of floors and now I just put it forward for others to consider because I am not in that business and do not sell any flooring products so I have nothing to gain other than a sharing of experience.

The reason I suggest it is because the floor becomes much more serviceable and it costs close to nothing when compared to epoxy coatings.

It still looks just like concrete, it has no extra shine, no color, but the floor will be chemically changed to semi seal the surface and take much longer for oils etc. to penetrate and it will prevent dusting. I think that is better than plain concrete and for those who do not have the budget for a quality coating this is a great low cost treatment to improve the concrete surface either forever or until they get around to coating it.

I used to see floors in cheaply built factory units that were soft with a trowel-polished surface that had been worn away down into the stones by forktruck tires. There was no polish left and only rough stones in the biggest wear areas and all the stock was covered in grey dust from the concrete.

I would put down two coats of the old sodium silicate hardener and that would stop the dusting and wear dead. After a while they even began to develop a sheen in the not-so-worn areas indicating that the hardness of the soft concrete was sufficient for wear to polish it.

The newer hardeners are made from different chemicals and work much better. It has been only recently that hardeners have been called densifiers and have been used as an aid to the polishing of concrete and to maintain the polish longer. None of these actually add density to the concrete with a film of some sort, they just cause a chemical reaction which changes the molecules into a harder product so softer floors do not really matter except to say that a softer floor will not harden to as high a level as a harder floor will. If a concrete floor is polished and hard it will be improved marginally with a hardener, but if it is soft and dusting it will be improved dramatically with a hardener as far as the owner can tell.

Hi Legacy,

About Aquron, I was told that it allowed air to pass through, but did not allow water vapour because the molecules of water were too large to pass through. It worked many times for me, but as for more technical stuff I guess you need to talk to Aquron about that. You bring up a good point about hardeners doing a similar thing and I have often wondered how much water is stopped by hardeners.

However, Aquron apparently works differently by filling up the voids in concrete with a gel that adds hardness and makes the concrete more dense as well as stopping the transfer of water molecules. A small amount of Aquron liquid can react with chemicals found in concrete and create a gel that grows inside. Although it densifies and hardens concrete, it does it in a very different way to the typical hardeners and densifiers available now.

I think Aquron solves many problems regarding water and concrete, but I would not recommend it as a replacement for a hardener and it seems to be sold in a very expensive way according to one post. That is a pity because it would be a really useful product for some problem applications.
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Good post Edger.

I agree. It's not for everyone but certainly is better than doing nothing.
The best part is you can always upgrade later with no major inconvenience.

I will look further into the Aquron.
 

CamarosRus

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After many months of research and procrastination Im still trying to reach a conclusion on which MOISTURE VAPOR TRANSMISSION product to have applied or apply myself.

Some of the below can only be applied by certified installers and some productsd anyone can buy at a given distributor.

Most of the below are quite expensive. I'm wanting to LEARN which are the best value.

KOSTER, AQUA FIN, MOPEI, ARDEX, Arizona Polymers Vapor Solv, BASF Master Top, Sherwin Williams Aqua Solv AND many others

I'm bewildered why at a flooring forum on this major web site there is not more testimonials for this important segment of the concrete floor repair industry
 

LegacyIndustrial

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Camaro, aqua fin is good and available through kenseal. The prep and application are very similar to any epoxy system. We have used with some below grade garage slabs with good results .
 
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