Garage framing

[Boneill230]

Making head way on the plans for the garage finally, wanted to get some input from you folks!
Garage is to be attached, 33' wide 40' deep with 16' ceiling. Currently is in the plans to be framed with 2x4 lumber, horizontal blocking staggered at 94" and 98". Roof structure to be an open span truss 5/12 +/- which I am waiting to hear from the manufacturer on design and engineering for the loads and other info.

Front wall to have a 36" x 80" entry door, along with 2- 12' x 14' garage doors.
When it comes to the front wall, Can an LVL beam even be used for the header across the 13’ for the doors or would that need to be a 2x6 framed wall?
I am unsure if I should just go with 2x6 framed walls. Aside from the substantial rise in cost and losing a small amount of space inside there are benefits IMO of going to the 2x6 with the extra strength and ability to insulate more. But im not sure if I NEED to go with the bigger framing.

Thank you for the help in adavce!

 

[kd3pc]

anything over 12' walls...yours 16', we do in 2x6 as a matter of course...your local folks may have a minimum...

Beam will likely need 2x6 or wad of 2x4s...check with the vendor they have specs and details on drilling or messing with the LVL....

 

[Kevin54]

Around here, walls 10' and over in height have to be 2x6's

 

[6768rogues]

For tall walls, we use 2x6 lumber of if they have to be slender we use engineered man made replacements for 2x4s.
You did not say if your doors are in the side with a gable or if they are under the bearing points of the roof trusses. If the doors are in a gable end and you use a standard roof truss designed for a clear span over the doors, the headers over the doors will not be bearing the weight of the roof. If the bearing ends of the trusses are over the doors, you have to use headers capable of carrying the roof cumulative live and dead loads for the areas over the doors.

 

[GMCGarage]

How close are you to the coast in NJ? At 16' tall walls, 2x6 might be questionable with the wind load required due to hurricane. Do you need a permit?

Read this and see what you come up with.

https://www2.iccsafe.org/states/newjersey/nj_residential/pdfs/nj_res_chapter6.pdf

 

[bad_idea]

I am in a 110 MPH wind zone. I have 10' studded walls and I was required to use 2x6s. 2x6 walls get wavy over 10', can only imagine what a 2x4 looks like. To reiterate, placement of doors in relation to roof dictates need for heavy headers or not. Gable end - no load, walls under eaves - load. Both of these are engineer questions though. I am very DIY, but I did pay an engineer to draw up the prints for the garage. Prevents a lot of headaches years down the road.

 

[Boneill230]

Garage doors will be in the gable end of the structure. There will be windows on one bearing wall but that is easy to frame. So if the doors are on a gable end there is no need for an LVL header, Dimensional lumber is sufficient for that? As for location I am in West Deptford, right across from Philly, I checked a wind zone map and. I’m in the 90mph zone if I’m looking correctly.
Glad I asked on here to clear that up, Thanks everyone for the input thus far it’s appreciated! Framing and foundation plans are just about done and will be onto electrical and plumbing

 

[mvusse]

You'll have to use at least 2x6 framing for that height and possibly even 2x8 for 16' tall walls. That height would be much easier to accomplish on a pole barn, but being attached to a house pole barn construction is not possible. 16 foot door on a gable end can be supported by three 2x12 with 1/2 ply in between to get your 5.5" thickness matching the 2x6 framing. 13' span if load bearing can be handled by three 1.75x9.5 LVL beams. Don't know if 2x12 dimensional lumber can handle that.

My garage has 12' lumber walls on top of concrete to get 12'6" ceilings. 16x10 door in gable end I could do with 2x12 dimensional lumber, but the 16x10 door in an eave wall I had to use three 1.75x9.5 1.9E lvl beams. 30" wide windows in eave walls I could just use 2x6 headers.

You might want to see an architect about what you're planning.

 

[bad_idea]

That height would be much easier to accomplish on a pole barn, but being attached to a house pole barn construction is not possible.

This guy did: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375922&highlight=40x60+attached+garage

Another option is to build a stem wall of cinder block or poured concrete a few feet high. Cuts down on the height of lumber. If your house is on a 3' or so crawlspace, then build the stem wall 3' and you will only have 13' of wood. Drop the ceiling height to 15' and you can use 12' boards, saving money over 14' or 16' boards. Also gets the wood that much higher in the air, away from the dirt. Keeps water from coming in under the base plate from snow melt or surface run off.

 

[Boneill230]

This guy did: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375922&highlight=40x60+attached+garage

Another option is to build a stem wall of cinder block or poured concrete a few feet high. Cuts down on the height of lumber. If your house is on a 3' or so crawlspace, then build the stem wall 3' and you will only have 13' of wood. Drop the ceiling height to 15' and you can use 12' boards, saving money over 14' or 16' boards. Also gets the wood that much higher in the air, away from the dirt. Keeps water from coming in under the base plate from snow melt or surface run off.

I do like the pole barn idea but I was unsure how the connecting wall between the house and the garage would work. I would also build the framing on slab and not sink the beams into the ground using the surface mount brackets. Also with the pole bars is it more difficult to finish and insulate the inside?

I would also be a bigger fan of the stem wall method (some stone facia would look good, selling point on the wife lmao) but would go 4’ so I could still achieve the 16’ with 12’ 2x6. Would you just ram set the sill plate into the cap block or is there a different method to fasten?

Thanks again, happy Monday! -__-

 

[GMCGarage]

This guy did: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375922&highlight=40x60+attached+garage

Another option is to build a stem wall of cinder block or poured concrete a few feet high. Cuts down on the height of lumber. If your house is on a 3' or so crawlspace, then build the stem wall 3' and you will only have 13' of wood. Drop the ceiling height to 15' and you can use 12' boards, saving money over 14' or 16' boards. Also gets the wood that much higher in the air, away from the dirt. Keeps water from coming in under the base plate from snow melt or surface run off.

Now you have a stem wall to design though for the load from the studs. Getting also into that hinge in the wall issue.

 

[CraigStu]

Do you really need a 16 ft ceiling? To me that gets into you 'really need an engineer' territory. Looking at your location just outside a major east coast city, I have to think you will need engineer drawings to get a building permit. Maybe a first step is make an appointment w/ someone in the county permitting office for a discussion on what they require. Getting some thoughts here on different techniques is fine but the county will tell you what you can actually do.

 

[bad_idea]

Would you just ram set the sill plate into the cap block or is there a different method to fasten?

Threaded rods are placed in the block, just like building on a slab. You can either set threaded rods into the footer (preferred) or you can place a threaded rod in the block cavity and cement in. Placed in the footer takes more planning but is less likely to pull out. Stud placement and spacing are dictated by code.

 

[spudley]

Would you just ram set the sill plate into the cap block or is there a different method to fasten?

J bolts embedded every six feet along the top of knee wall. But you really need to be asking questions to your city/county inspection dept.
You could be planning something you can't build.

 

[Boneill230]

J bolts embedded every six feet along the top of knee wall. But you really need to be asking questions to your city/county inspection dept.
You could be planning something you can't build.

Yep I get you on that, I spoke to the construction official for my township prior to even starting the plans to see if the size of the structure is an issue. Initially I wanted a detached garage but zoning only allows for a 600 sq ft in my township. I remember the phone cal to the construction/zoning official, “So a detached structure can only be 600 square foot and a max of 15’ peak, but I could build a 2000 square foot garage if I wanted to if it meets the setback requirements?” “Yeah that’s not a problem” obviously more conversation went on with that but I did get my answer.

Main reasons for 16’ ceilings is 2 things.
1 being a 2 post lift
2 being the likelihood of putting a mezzanine on half of it due to my house being a Crawlspace foundation and we have zero storage lol. Mezzanine would be freestanding NOT built into the structure walls

 

[mvusse]

I went with 12'6" ceiling to be able to fit a lift. I have 56' of pallet racks for storage along with a fork lift truck.

Mine is stick built, poured footer, block foundation sticking out 6" above the floor, 12' walls.

 

[Boneill230]

Just an update, finally heard back from construction/zoning official from my trownship. 35’ max height for structures just had to meet the setback requirements. Only DETACHED garages/ “accessory structures” have a max 600sqft and 15’ peak height.
Friend of mine hooked me up with an architect he’s good friends with. He said a 4’ stem wall above the pad with 2x6 walls 12’ high would be fine.

I’m sure I’ll be on here again for more questions, a discussion at work came up on how I’m going to heat the place so a radiant floor/forced air debate started lol.

 

[mvusse]

Radiant floor can be very energy efficient, but only if you spent like 8 hours a day every day in it. It takes 3-4 days to react, so it's not something you turn up a few hours before you go in there and turn off when you're done for the day. You turn it on in fall, and turn it off in spring. So energy efficient to a point, as it will be on 24/7.

If you're just going to work in it on weekends and don't need to keep it heated all week, go with a gas powered garage heater hanging off the ceiling, or forced air coupled with a ceiling fan or two to keep the air circulating instead of all the heat ended up against your ceiling.

 

[Radix2]

Hard time believing that 16' foot walls will look ok attached to a house.

Using either a scissor or raised center truss, you can easily get full headroom over a decent area with much lower sidewalls. Why not build the storage in? At 40 foot span, with a 8 pitch roof, you can get a full height room 18' wide in the trusses themselves for example.

Good to have an architect involved, if this is part of your house, you really should consider how the whole thing comes together too. I was in the same boat with the zoning, and ended up with the 2000 sqft attached garage as a result. Good luck.

 

[Boneill230]

Yeah that’s what I read about the floor heat, efficient but always on in order to work. And it takes a day to just raise the temp a few degrees. We have the gas radiant tube heater at my work and we sweat our butts off in the middle of winter. I’m a fan of the infrared gas heaters, the Home Depot near me has those at the front and they can put out some heat!

As far as how it’ll look next to the house, goofy right now. But we plan on going up and out with the house once the family expands, no point in building a bigger house if we don’t have mini me’s to fill it lol. I used the cheif architect software to get an idea of what I want, I’ll post a rendering of it later tonight. Gable is towards the front so scissors wouldn’t achieve what I’m trying to do, I did look into them though. Will post some pics later

 

[Boneill230]

This is what I'm working off of, it does look huge next to the house but I don't think it looks bad either. Suits it purpose

 

[bad_idea]

I think it would look better if you turn the roof 90 degrees to run parallel with the house. Move the entry door to the right hand side of the garage (on the side of the building). You will still be able to enter the garage from the exterior but I think it will look better from the curb. Might drop the height of the doors a few feet too. Do you NEED a door that high? What will you be pulling in there that tall?

 

[sreeb]

That front wall looks troubling for shear loads.

 

[GMCGarage]

That front wall looks troubling for shear loads.

Nobody ever worries about shear!!!

 

[Boneill230]

I have to screw around with the software, the 4’ stem wall isn’t shown in those pics. Architect said the same thing if I did the full wall in lumber lol. With the 4’ stem I’m looking at 12’ 2x6 walls with horizontal blocking. LVLs for the garage door headers.

 

[Boneill230]

Finally had some time to get some info and some more ideas. The 4' stem wall with a 12' 2x6 stud wall is fine per the architect. BUT on the front wall I more than likely will need shear panels built in. I have plans sent into MiTek to figure what would work best so I should hear back in a week or two.

As for the doors, the pictures below is what I have. 36"X80" entry, 12'wx10'h garage, 12'wx14'h garage door. Now with the different heights I had the thought of constructing a overhang/porch roof over the entry door and the 10' door to bled with the height of the 14' door a bit and to give cover in **** weather a bit (again need to check if wall will support). Just cant do that with the software I have. Siding wise may also do a different siding in the gable of the wall and cast stone on the stem wall

 

[logical]

I guess it depends on how much relative weight you give aesthetics vs utility. There is no way to avoid it looking like a machine shop with an attached office as long as the garage is big enough that you could park the house inside it for the night.

I assume you don't have the space for side entry doors? If you did you could just do windows on the front that blend in by masquerading as more house. As someone suggested, I'd at least move the man door around to the side.

Those are huge doors that take up almost the entire face. I don't think you've replied to anyone asking why you want 16' walls and such big doors. It's none of our business but there is no way around it that a garage that big overpowers the house and doors that big overpower the garage.

If you relocated the man door, made the two garage doors the same height (ideally at or below the house soffits level) and put windows (similar in size and shape to house windows) above the doors to mock living space it could work.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Boneill230]

I get what you are saying and do not disagree. At this point and time the structure will look goofy next the a single story house I knew that when I started planning so I will not argue that fact lol. I do have plans to go up and out with the house in the future (5 ish years) when the family gets bigger, no sense in making the house bigger/adding bedrooms with no one to use them.

As far as the 16' ceilings, yeah its none-ya! lol Really the main reason is the 2 post lift that is going in it requires 190" to clear. The other reason being I'm a HD diesel mechanic and fabricator, I want to be able to work on whatever I want without having to worry about it. But do want to build a mezzanine on the side with the short door for added use.

As for the man door, the entry from garage into the house is on that wall. So my thinking with that was if I put a garage door that close to the wall it will impede entry/exit from house. Would love to have side entries but as it is designed now the far wall is approximately 14' from the property line.


The input is appreciated! Time for some beers after Monday #2

 

[Boneill230]

You mean something like this for aesthetics you is what you were mentioning? I know someone mentioned previously putting the gables to the side which doesn't look bad IMO. But can they make a 45' long truss?

 

[Radix2]

I think most are suggesting to move the man door around the corner to the left - so it is by where you want it, but not on the front....

 

[mvusse]

Most two post lifts only require 144-150". At 190" that's a big one.

 

[Boneill230]

Most two post lifts only require 144-150". At 190" that's a big one.

big lift for big stuff lol. Not to mention being 6'6" the smaller lifts leave quite a dent in your head when you smack it into the arms lmao. We have a 14' and a 16' at work needless to say the 14' probably has some of my skin on it.

 

[Youngandfree]

big lift for big stuff lol. Not to mention being 6'6" the smaller lifts leave quite a dent in your head when you smack it into the arms lmao. We have a 14' and a 16' at work needless to say the 14' probably has some of my skin on it.

Any progress pics?