Garage gas line

[sfeaver]

When installing conduits from the house to the garage, I put in a 2" PVC conduit to pull a gas line through.

I figured I could pull a copper tube through it. Now I am wondering just how feasilbe that is. Underground it has the pull-90s.

Anybody pulled this off? Or is there something better to bring through there? I want to run 3/4" ID minumum, my heater is 75,000 BTU.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[hotrod66paul]

Is copper up to code for natural gas ?? I buried black pipe inside PVC for gas to the garage from the house. Was going to use that flexiable brown gas pipe (don't know correct trade name) but wasn't shure how to properly install so stuck with something I knew.My heater was also a 75,000 btu unit. Might check with local gas company before you F*#@ up something.

 

[dipper]

I also ran a conduit for my build to eliminate any questions during inspections as any plumbing (natural gas lines included) had to be installed by a licensed plumber. Well I wasnt about to pay a professional to install a line I could do; i will just pull a flexible line through when the time comes. I don't think copper would cut it, as they have alot of the CSST line (search ebay or internet plumbing sites) but it is big $$$$ (5-7.00 per foot). You could also try some local plumbing supply houses in your area to see if you can get something cheaper.

I haven't researched fully what I will use, but if it is going to cost alot more than just running black pipe; I'll just redig my trench and bury the black pipe. Might be getting to that point this summer/fall as I would LOVE to have a heater hanging for next winter.

 

[dipper]

You'll need a good fish tape and flex line should pull through okay.
It's only got to go through once.

 

[Steve in Mi]

I think it will depend on the length of the run. In the size you mention I'm not sure how long a coil is available (for a real long run,I'm not sure it is big enough either) but different inspectors have their own rules about a joint within the enclosed run (just like no joints within walls) and most all will agree that the line has to be serviceable. Check with the inspecting agent for the exact requirements for your installation. When I built my shop the building inspector wasn't a lot of help (that has changed with training programs for them they seem much more knowledgeable today) so I went to the gas utility engineers to get answers.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Some gas companies do not allow copper lines to be installed downstream of the meter. If you look through the literature, you find that copper can only be used for natural gas if the sulfer content is below a certain level. This causes some natural gas suppliers to prohibit copper.

IMHO (by far) the best material to use for underground natural gas is high density polyethylene gas line, such as that made by Performance Pipe or similar. This pipe can be joined by either heat-fusion (with special tooling) or by various mechanical fittings (stab couplers for example). It should last 100 years or more, in normal service. It cannot be used aboveground, as UV rays will weaken it, and various codes prohibit it. The second best material would be coated steel that is cathodically protected. Normally this isn't something a consumer can get, monitor and maintain, so it may be an impractical solution. Leaving...the third choice, bare black steel. Black steel (aka maleable iron) will last underground for some time. I've seen it last 30 years before failure. Others have seen it fail in a year, if buried in a caustic or acidic soil. Typically when it fails on the consumer side of the meter, it will fill with water as ground water infiltrates it. Then you can't get gas down it at 7 inches w/c anymore. At that point, the entire pipe should be replaced.

You might try to contact your local gas company and see if they can either put together a section of PE gas pipe for your application, refer you to one of their subcontractors that does this type of work, OR refer you to a supplier that sells the material.

Good Luck.

Phil

p.s. If you use black iron, you'll get better life by NOT coating it at all. Seems disingenuous, but it's true. If you coat it imprerfectly (and you will) and don't apply a galvanic current to the pipe, it will set up various corrosion cells that will cause accelerated rusting at the imperfections ("coating holidays")

 

[chevelle64]

HoosierBuddy is right. Where I'm at in Michigan, the polyethylene (the plastic looking stuff) is the correct way to go. You just bury that without running it through any conduit. But you also need to bury a "tracer" wire in the trench with it. This is used by the gas company to locate the gas line at a later time. They send some kind of signal down the wire and use that signal to locate where the line is. Some sort of NASA stuff I'm sure. You will also need a thingamajig to connect the poly line to black pipe once you're ready to bring the gas line back above ground. The whole UV ray thing. Your local plumbing supply store should have everything you need.

 

[6768rogues]

I had the gas company install a line and separate meter for the garage. They did the whole job and ate most of the cost. Typically they will put in a hundred feet or so of service for free.
They offered me 100 feet to the house and then another 100 feet to the garage from the house. I payed for 3 feet and I think it cost me less than $10. Now I know how much is being used in each building.

 

[dipper]

I never thought of the polyethylene tubing. I could probably run that right thrhough my conduit and up into the garage. It is probably alot cheaper than CSST.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I pay about 30 cents per foot, but buy it 10,000 feet at a time. You'll likely pay more. Tracer wire is another 8 cents per foot. Make sure you use PE gas line. It will say "gas" on the outside of the pipe. Normally it's yellow on the outside and black on the inside. Don't use waterline or some silly thing like that. The fittings to take you to NPT are called "transistion fittings" and you'll need one for each end. They are about 2 feet long.

The pipe and cable locator puts a radio signal on the line. NASA uses a lot of radio signals too, I'm sure.

The seperate meter idea? Check to see what the gas company's mininum bill (also know as "customer charge" is. For most gas company's I know it is around $10 to $15 per month PER METER. So, having that second meter to your garage will cost hundreds of dollars over the life of your heater. I always advise people to run their own line unless they have a business reason (running a business out of the garage and need to keep the expenses seperate) for having the second meter.

Phil

 

[larry4406]

I second the use of the yellow poly pipe. I used pipe by Perfection Corp http://perfectioncorp.com/ and their stab connectors and anodless risers, couldn't be easier. I have propane, but house and garage now share the same tank, one bill.

As another tip, if your conduit is missing its pull wire, crumple newpaper loosely into a ball on one end of the conduit and tie a string around the paper ball. Use a shop vac on the other end to **** it through. Works sweet!

 

[6768rogues]

I pay about $8 per month meter fee, but it includes 4 therms of gas. It ends up net costing me about $4 per month in the heating season and $8 per month when the heat is off, probably totals $75 per year. The gas line belongs to the gas company and is their responsibility up to the meter at the garage, and I installed nothing underground. I like to monitor how much is used in the house and how much in the garage.

 

[sfeaver]

An Update:

I pulled through a 1" CSST line through this 2" conduit, and it was a piece of cake.

I was shocked, it was easier than pulling four 6AWG wires through a 1 1/2" conduit.

Scott

 

[dipper]

Where'd you get the line from and how much did you pay?

 

[W-Cummins]

An Update:

I pulled through a 1" CSST line through this 2" conduit, and it was a piece of cake.

Scott

Sounds good. How are you going to get the special risers on it?? All of them I have seen are a large sweeping 90deg, If you can get a straight one it will not be bad, other wise I'm not sure how your going to do it. Also you can NOT use that plastic pipe in the structure. The conduits come up outside right??


I just noticed that your in CA so you may be able to use it inside there, you can not here....


William....

 

[sfeaver]

I bought it from a local HVAC supplier here in Hamilton, Ontario. It was 320$ for 100' of it. I had to take a course from the Wardflex rep to be certified to use it, but it was pretty basic.

The stuff I used is not plastic, it is Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. Doesnt need risers or anything like that, just a Wardflex fitting on each end.

Scott

 

[GearHd6]

I bought it from a local HVAC supplier here in Hamilton, Ontario. It was 320$ for 100' of it. I had to take a course from the Wardflex rep to be certified to use it, but it was pretty basic.

The stuff I used is not plastic, it is Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. Doesnt need risers or anything like that, just a Wardflex fitting on each end.

Scott

Is that Canadian funds I hope? How much of the 100' did you actually need? I only needed 20' so I found it on ebay for about $3 a foot. I ran the line and the gas company supplied the fittings and tied it all in for me.

 

[sfeaver]

Yes that is Canadian funds (the Canadian dollar is slightly higher than the US dollar today by the way For 1" line it is more than the smaller line. 320 works out to $3.20 a foot, not too bad for being here versus having it shipped I thought.

 

[GearHd6]

Yes that is Canadian funds (the Canadian dollar is slightly higher than the US dollar today by the way For 1" line it is more than the smaller line. 320 works out to $3.20 a foot, not too bad for being here versus having it shipped I thought.

No thats not bad as long as you dont need 5' of it and had to buy 100'.

 

[W-Cummins]

I bought it from a local HVAC supplier here in Hamilton, Ontario. It was 320$ for 100' of it. I had to take a course from the Wardflex rep to be certified to use it, but it was pretty basic.

The stuff I used is not plastic, it is Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing. Doesnt need risers or anything like that, just a Wardflex fitting on each end.

Scott

I see that in my haste ( and reading the preceding messages) I assumed you had used plastic. Should really take more time for better reading comprehension

Anyway I'm thinking about using some of the same stuff you installed. Are there any limitations on running it under ground? under slabs etc...

Thanks

William...

 

[69satelite]

you can use soft copper k or L where I live but I would check with your codes in canada first. and also before you decide that it has to be 3/4 id have your gas load checked by somebody or you might not get enugh gas to fire the furnace

 

[69satelite]

yeh real tough course wardflex offers eh

 

[sfeaver]

I used 96' of that roll, so it worked out great. Thats why I needed the 1" line. With the heater on, I drop from 7" wc to 6.75" wc, so plenty of pressure.

For underslab installs with Wardflex is has to be in conduit.

 

[dodgeram2500]

sfeaver:
Can CSST be direct burried (no conduit)?
What's the min. depth?
Does it need to be inspected like an electrical trench does?

I Can't find anything on gas lines in the Ontario Building Code...

Thanks for any input!

 

[saleen01]

i was looking on ebay to find some Polyethylene Gas Pipe nothing comes up in a search, does anyone have a link

also is there a limit to the length you can use Polyethylene Gas Pipe?

I've got about 50ft from my gas line in my basement, across the driveway and into the garage...


update: just did a little research, seems wardflex is the way to go...pricey, but if i run it myself, i only have to pay a guy to do 3 connections instead of 100 angles and bends to navigate through my basement and under my driveway...

1 at the rigid supply line in my basement
2 at the point the line re-appears in my garage and I switch it to black steel pipe
3 at the furnace

I'm in toronto, anyone know where to buy this stuff?


thanks

 

[saleen01]

i found a local product called Gastite, does anyone have any experience with it?

 

[therealjakeg]

Buddy I work for the gas company. and you should use ppe with steel risers, thats your best bet. good luck.

 

[72Tunaboat]

I have used Gastite and Tracpipe(Wardflex). They are similar products that use their own proprietary fittings. I have used the burial pipe from gstite but not from Wardflex. It is a good product but expensive.