Garage grounding issue

[jnbleu]

Hello everyone, first time posting but I have been reading up a bit on here for a few days now. I am renting a home with a detached garage about 15 feet from the house. Its about 20x16 and was in terrible shape. The previous renters had the wire (2 wire uf) buried in the ground. 2 wire meaning there is no ground wire. They obviously had no idea on even the basics of electrical work because they used tape to make connections where wire nuts and a jbox should have been used. I have since repaired all of that mess. I discovered this when I was running a new outlet to the back for a window ac unit I'm installing.

Now my main question is what to do about not having a ground wire running fromthe feeder line from the house main panel? The breaker is a 15 amp afci and the unit is a 10000 btu 10 amp unit. The ac and 4 flourecents and a radio is all that will be used on this. Landlord won't do anything and I don't own. I just want to know if this is safe to use without having a ground or what I can do to rectify this.

Thanks

 

[sberry]

You can gfci before it leaves the first building.

 

[64duece]

I wouldn't take any chances and would replace the feeder with something suitable for 20A minimum. Even if you don't own, having the "use of it" will be more than worth dropping in some 12/2 or even 10/2 for such a short run. At least you'll know it'll be done correctly as well.

 

[sberry]

What would I do,,, I would jackleg in a new 12 wire in place of the 14 and find a 20 I might be able to swap to or share that was un used. Do it without notice and to the point it is safe, it would pass a forensic and no one would ever know I repaired the faults and you made it better than it was which was a rental with faulty wire.

Behind the fine print a company and an agent would just as see you make an attempt as disregard a known fault. While it may not be legal for you to do the work everyone would just as soon see it fixed and its unlikely to be worse.

Yes, agree with 64

 

[pattenp]

Don't know where you're located but if you replace the feeder and it's no more than 20 amps at 120 volts and feed it off a GFCI outlet back at the house, the feeder only needs to be buried 12 inches. That wouldn't be too hard of a digging job for 15 ft.

 

[jnbleu]

You can gfci before it leaves the first building.

So would the afci breaker that is already feeding the circuit good enough. Or do I need to buy a gfci breaker?

 

[jnbleu]

Yeah I actually bought some 12/2 for the new outlet before I discovered the issues. Also the feeder wire is only buried about an inch downand no conduit going into the garage.its just going into a hole drilled behing the siding they pulled back. Its a total hack job to say the least. I guess I will go ahead and just buy some new 12/2 uf and replace the ru and pipe it into the wall properly. I really didn't want to spend that much on this tho but considering I'm drywalling the garage I might as well do it all right.

Ps can anyone tell me why exactly the nec code prohibits more than one feeder wire to an outbuilding? Is it a fire hazard or what?

 

[jnbleu]

Yeah I actually bought some 12/2 for the new outlet before I discovered the issues. Also the feeder wire is only buried about an inch downand no conduit going into the garage.its just going into a hole drilled behing the siding they pulled back. Its a total hack job to say the least. I guess I will go ahead and just buy some new 12/2 uf and replace the ru and pipe it into the wall properly. I really didn't want to spend that much on this tho but considering I'm drywalling the garage I might as well do it all right.

Ps can anyone tell me why exactly the nec code prohibits more than one feeder wire to an outbuilding? Is it a fire hazard or what?

 

[Mustang51js]

It's not a fire hazard but more of a safety hazard, like someone thinking power is off and then there's another power source. It's basically to protect people that don't know what they are doing and mess with stuff,as are a lot of the codes they make,it's all about lawyers and who to sue

 

[pattenp]

Nope. AFCI and GFCI are two different things. In this case you need the GFCI to protect you from getting shocked from ground faults. AFCI is to protect the wiring from arcing.

So would the afci breaker that is already feeding the circuit good enough. Or do I need to buy a gfci breaker?

 

[Mustang51js]

Your going to end up replacing that arc fault breaker anyway once you start using power tools,so might be better to just get the gfci breaker. I always have issues with homeowners and afci breakers,it detects the arc in vacuumes,power drills,circular saws and stuff like that and has nuisence trips. Until they start making them better you will have issues with the arc fault.

 

[jnbleu]

Thanks for all the advice. I wasn't looking forward to having to change the breaker cause when I looked the other day they are 50 bucks a piece. But if its gotta be done I want it done to where its safe and as close to code as I can get it.

 

[pattenp]

You don't have to use a GFCI breaker. You can come out of the panel to a GFCI outlet and have the circuit continue out to the garage from the GFCI outlet. That's provided you don't do more than a 20A 120V circuit to the garage. You can keep the AFCI breaker in place if it doesn't cause you any problems with nuisance tripping.

 

[Mustang51js]

What I would do if you have to run the wire is put the gfi outlet on your house like said before, this way at least the wire in the ground is gfi protected in case something happens. Worse case is it trips and you have to walk outside to the house to reset,just another option

 

[sberry]

I put an outdoor gfci on the house and pipe in to the ground. Also this second building should have a switch right after it enters the second building it needs a means of disconnect, a simple switch will do. Run the UF in to a box, switch and continue with NM-B

 

[R.Anderson]

Your spending your own money for drywall and electrical on a rental property? Why is the landlord not taking care of this?

 

[jnbleu]

Beacause the landlord does not care and won't do anything unless its an emergency. I have been here two years and just need a get away spot to escape the wife hence why I want an ac for the summer. I've only invested 150 for drywall so its not breaking the bank. Oh and the last landlord I had at another house wouldn't do anything about the FEDERAL PACIFIC breaker panel mounted outside with no inside cover plate.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Oh and the last landlord I had at another house wouldn't do anything about the FEDERAL PACIFIC breaker panel mounted outside with no inside cover plate.

I would have taken a pic of that and when I moved out, sent it to the building inspector, with an address and a note that "this is what I find when I open the panel's door, doesn't look safe to me."

Charles

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The A/C unit is supposed to be on a dedicated circuit & fed from an hacr breaker.

Tommy

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The A/C unit is supposed to be on a dedicated circuit & fed from an hacr breaker.

Tommy

Its a window A/C which would be a cord and plug connection.

Charles

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Exactly. It has to be on a dedicated circuit & fed from a HACR breaker.

Tommy

 

[Mustang51js]

There's nothing that says it has to be on a dedicated line, it would be good if it was so you don't overload the circuit. But he could run a 100 foot extension cord and plug it into the bedroom outlets if he wanted to. Basically what you are saying is if he decides to move the ac from different windows he has to install a new circuit to each window, if it was cut in the wall and permanent then yes,but not for a removable ac unit.

 

[jnbleu]

Yes window ac and it has a gfci plug built onto it.

 

[pattenp]

The provision in the NEC for window AC is that it should not exceed 50% of the circuit capacity if other appliances or general use receptacles are supplied. NEC 440.62(C)

 

[LS6 Tommy]

The provision in the NEC for window AC is that it should not exceed 50% of the circuit capacity if other appliances or general use receptacles are supplied. NEC 440.62(C)

Thanks. Maybe it's just a NJ thing, but every one we install in the schools has to be on a dedicated circuit with an HACR breaker & we have to put a switch on the circuit as a disconnect, too. Maybe that's just for public buildings?

Tommy