Garage Heat bids attached garage

[dlefty]

Hello GJ!
My first endeavor into a garage project is to add heat. Want to share my experience and conversations to see if I am on the proper path.

Newer construction house (finished construction January '17)

Attached 3 car garage, roughly 600 SQ FT
Approx 31ft wide
The 2-car portion with the 16ft wide door is around 21ft deep
The single portion is offset a bit back and has 8ft wide door and goes about 19ft deep.
10ft ceilings.

Entire garage is drywalled.

The basement where the gas line originates is wide open, no finishing work in the way.

In the basement where they would need to turn a gas line up into the garage, there is already an existing capped gas line that terminates close to exactly where this upturn would need to happen, so should not require a lot of piping or additional labor to get the gas there.

All companies who have come to bid out the job plan to run the vent out the back wall of garage (the 3rd car stall) instead of running up through the roof, as they said this would be easiest since it is right where unit would be mounted as well as prevent having to cut into roof some more.

They all include electrician work to get a thermostat out there to control it, nothing fancy like Bluetooth controls, etc.

I am looking at (based on a little research as well as their suggestions) a 60,000BTU unit.

I have made it clear I just want quality, not picky on brand, not too loud, and the two suggestions have been Hot Dawg and Reznor.

Now, here is where it gets interesting. Everyone I talk to locally I know that has a similar set up already, claims a total price they paid to be $1,500-1,800 total. Now either I am getting gouged on these bids or the people giving me the number they paid are inaccurate with their memory of the situation! Lowest bid I have gotten is $3,288 and they go up to $3,500+. I hate to keep wasting companies time to come bid it if that's the right price range, as I respect their time too!

What is everyone's thought? Is that accurate and I am frustrated with the bid costs based on bad information from local research of current owners, or am I getting hammered because it is middle of winter?

I am just outside of Milwaukee in Wisconsin if it matters.

I am open to PM's as well if any not for public consumption discussion

Thanks for any feedback!

 

[pbon]

If the garage is insulated, 60k BTU is about 2x what you need for 600SF. Horizontal vent piping costs more. Maybe $300 for piping. A Mr. Heater 50k is about $400. A Reznor is probably 2x that. Gas pipe and fittings and hose and valve might be $100. So maybe $1200 in parts and a day of labor at $100/hr. $2000 for everything would be OK. I did mine myself for about $350, but I got the Mr. Heater on sale for $250. Do you live in a really expensive area where labor prices are much higher?

 

[spudley]

Mr dlefty...Northern Tool in West Allis has Mr Heater 50K at $349. $3500 seems a bit high if the vent and gas line are as you mentioned.
Maybe one of the guys that got it done for $1500-$1800 could get you a name? I'd keep looking for a better bid.

 

[SALIV8]

How many bids have you gotten?

 

[wanderer]

There are several pieces to it. Heater is about $600. My garage is bigger than yours and has the 45k btu hot dawg heater. It is loud. I’d consider something else if the room above is finished. My heater is much more than I need in the garage. Warms up quickly and cycles often.

As far as the bid....what are you paying for? Need electric, propane, venting. Need to figure out what part of this is running up the tab, then see if there is something else that can be done. I would just call the company that you want to deal with and tell him that the bid is higher than you were expecting and ask if he can explain to you which parts of the bill are contributing to the total. That should give you some insight.

If it were me I would find a local handyman and hire him to do the bulk of the work. I would order the heater online and have him install it and prep for the gas line and cut the boot in for the roof. Perhaps install the entire flue. Then you can call a plumber to come in and install the gas line and have your Carpenter do the rest. Alternately, you could ask the heating and air installer how much to run the flu if you have your Carpenter do some of the work and them start up the heater for you.

What you are seeing news that there are many different trades involved with even a simple task like this. Heating and air guys are probably not thrilled about doing carpentry work or cutting holes in the building envelope for the flue. They probably don’t wanna crawl around in the attic and fish the thermostat wire out either.

I would definitely go out through the roof rather than the sidewall. They don’t want to do this because they don’t want to do shingling or be in the attic, but you will probably be unhappy with it later.

 

[dlefty]

If the garage is insulated, 60k BTU is about 2x what you need for 600SF. Horizontal vent piping costs more. Maybe $300 for piping. A Mr. Heater 50k is about $400. A Reznor is probably 2x that. Gas pipe and fittings and hose and valve might be $100. So maybe $1200 in parts and a day of labor at $100/hr. $2000 for everything would be OK. I did mine myself for about $350, but I got the Mr. Heater on sale for $250. Do you live in a really expensive area where labor prices are much higher?

Thank you for the feedback and the sizing. I was just going off the Hot Dawg marketing material for sizing recommendations, and all the HVAC companies doing the bidding didn’t suggest anything smaller, so learned something there, thanks!
The brochure reads:
1-1.5 car = 30,000
2-2.5 car = 45,000
3-3.5 car = 60,000
I’m guessing it assumes a 3 car is much bigger than mine, or just being aggressive.

No, do not live anywhere that would push labor prices high.

 

[dlefty]

Mr dlefty...Northern Tool in West Allis has Mr Heater 50K at $349. $3500 seems a bit high if the vent and gas line are as you mentioned.
Maybe one of the guys that got it done for $1500-$1800 could get you a name? I'd keep looking for a better bid.

Thanks for the heads up on the heater. That’s the funny part, everyone scratches their heads when I ask who did it, drives me crazy!

 

[dlefty]

How many bids have you gotten?

On my 3rd....

 

[wanderer]

Also, in regards to Heater size remember that you want something that will recover when you’re bringing the room up to temperature. My heater drives me crazy for the first hour or two I’m out there because it’s loud and it’s constantly kicking on and off. My garage is 840 square feet and 11’ tall and has a 45k model. When it’s really cold it will start the heating cycle again by the time it’s finished the last heating cycle, so it goes straight from cooling off into warming back up again. Makes me crazy.

I doubt that there’s a good way around that. It’s just because the garage is cold and as soon as the heater turns off the air cooled down quickly. I’m not sure if a digital thermostat would allow for a wider temperature set point but my manual one does not.

 

[wanderer]

Thank you for the feedback and the sizing. I was just going off the Hot Dawg marketing material for sizing recommendations, and all the HVAC companies doing the bidding didn’t suggest anything smaller, so learned something there, thanks!
The brochure reads:
1-1.5 car = 30,000
2-2.5 car = 45,000
3-3.5 car = 60,000
I’m guessing it assumes a 3 car is much bigger than mine, or just being aggressive.

No, do not live anywhere that would push labor prices high.

Looks about right for in an uninsulated garage at the north pole.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

I would be at $750-$1000 on the labor plus any materials and the unit itself. It needs to be hung, vent ran, power needs to be run, thermostat needs to be run, and then test the unit and clean up any mess. As easy as this sounds it will take 1 person the better part of a day to do this. My day rate is $400 just to show up and labor for an 8hr day on someone else’s job. Since this would be my job I would also have to take into account standing behind my work, possibly coming back if an issue arises etc. Maybe I am different, but I wouldn’t slap it in and consider the book closed. I stand behind everything I do and there is a cost associated with that. Sure the craigslist guy can probably do it, but when it falls from the ceiling or the exhaust backs up into your garage I have a feeling the craigslist guy will be long gone. I hope to never have these issues with any of my work, but if it ever happens you can bet I will be there ASAP fixing it.

 

[BillK]

DL,
Not going to comment about the price but personally I think 60k btu is probably about right, especially if you are not planning to keep it warm all of the time. I have a 5000w electric heater in my attached 2 car. It is listed as 17,040 btu. My garage is insulated and the door is sealed up pretty good. The electric heater works good but it takes about an hour to get up to a decent temp if if it cold out and I have not had it on. If you want to be able to heat it up quick then I think you are on the right track with that btu. Plus you are in a much colder area than I am.

Just my opinion,

 

[pbon]

I am in NH, where we regularly see 0F and the coldest might be -20F. I have an insulated 750SF that shares only 8’ of wall with the house. Ceiling heights are mostly 9.5’ and 13’ but with some 8’ and some 18’. I think a 30k would be fine, but I got a great deal on a Mr Heater 50k so I use that. If I had to replace it, I would buy a Reznor 45k.

I heat full time. I’d rather spend the money to have it comfortable and not have to bring my chemicals into the basement to prevent them from freezing and don’t want my welders and power tools suffering condensation damage internally. Maybe if I did not heat the garage, I would need a bigger heater to take it from 0 to 60F. But I installed the heater to be comfortable. I don’t want every tool I grab to be frozen or to listen to the heater run constantly. I have already been there and done that using torpedo heaters to occasionally warm up the air in my old garage while I worked.

 

[spudley]

dlefty, I just remembered there's a GJ member named James-W who lives near Elkhorn that had a heater installed for $2000. That's not too far away. Might be worth sending him a PM. BTW, from his posts, he seems like a really good guy

 

[savage407]

Do the quotes indicate what hardware (make/model of heater, type of vent pipe, thermostat, means for hanging, etc.) is being supplied? Also a provision for a dedicated electrical circuit. That info could be used to determine the equipment and materials cost. Typically the installed cost is 2x to 3x the hardware cost.

A separated combustion type heater is more expensive than a standard unit. This may account for some of your quoted costs.

 

[jbwilkins]

So all those guys that got it done for $1500-$1800, when was that? A 'few' of years ago construction wasn't booming so the trades were more eager for a 'day job', we also didn't have the tariff's we have on steel now, so costs have risen....

No one here has mentioned the permit cost yet either.....In some jurisdictions it's minimal, but in others, when dealing with electrical, plumbing, and HVAC it could require multiple inspectors and can be more expensive than you expected.........

 

[Showkey]

So all those guys that got it done for $1500-$1800, when was that? A 'few' of years ago construction wasn't booming so the trades were more eager for a 'day job', we also didn't have the tariff's we have on steel now, so costs have risen....

No one here has mentioned the permit cost yet either.....In some jurisdictions it's minimal, but in others, when dealing with electrical, plumbing, and HVAC it could require multiple inspectors and can be more expensive than you expected.........

Permits cost and hassles, contractors are swamped and short handed due to the tight labor market are absolutely legit. Would not be surprised if there was a month or more back log on getting this project done.

The tariffs as related to a garage heater and install parts has no merit. The heaters are the same price has 4-5 years ago, in some case actually cost less. The heater, horizontal vent class III, electrical and gas pipe all in at DIY prices is $800-$1300.

Menards, Fleet Farm and Northern Tool have the 50k heater on sale for about $350

https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...age-heater/f260550/p-1444441200665-c-6861.htm

Horizontal vent kit for $230

https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...ent-material-list/6955535/p-1564554514863.htm

That said on the parts the install by a legit contractor could easily be $1000-$1500 labor. A contractor needs a $100+ / hour to be in business. So $2000 installed could be the low end and $3000 could easily be the norm ????

As for heater size, I have 45k unit in stand alone 1000 sqft well insulated garage. More than enough, had 60k unit replaced because of board failure and rust. It was 20 years old.

 

[dlefty]

dlefty, I just remembered there's a GJ member named James-W who lives near Elkhorn that had a heater installed for $2000. That's not too far away. Might be worth sending him a PM. BTW, from his posts, he seems like a really good guy

Thank you, sent him a PM, hope to hear back.

 

[dlefty]

So all those guys that got it done for $1500-$1800, when was that? A 'few' of years ago construction wasn't booming so the trades were more eager for a 'day job', we also didn't have the tariff's we have on steel now, so costs have risen....

No one here has mentioned the permit cost yet either.....In some jurisdictions it's minimal, but in others, when dealing with electrical, plumbing, and HVAC it could require multiple inspectors and can be more expensive than you expected.........

Electric and mechanical permits appear to be $115. Asked for a part by part breakdown from one vendor and waiting since all bids have just been a lump sum.

 

[ripperd]

60k is definitely overkill for an insulated 3 car attached unless you only plan to heat when you are out there working and need the fast recovery. 30-45k is optimal.

All-in, DIY for myself was probably about 1500. That was a 45k beacon morris, separated combustion kit, stainless exhaust piping, thermostat, thermostat wire, 75' or so of csst I think. Took me probably 3 weekends of off and on work. This is in a insulated 4 car attached.

Quotes seem slightly high but not out of the ballpark. Materials is $1000-1700 depending on how long of a gas run, what kind of exhaust configuration, and what quality of unit (reznor is more, but higher quality). Then you have potentially multiple trades if it is being inspected (the gas and electrical each require different licenses). So $1000 labor is not unexpected.

 

[dcg9381]

No, do not live anywhere that would push labor prices high.

How about permitting and associated hassles? Not so much the cost of the permits, but the amount of hassle needed to submit line drawings, licenses, and whatever the jurisdiction needs to be able to stamp it and / or inspect it? Anything here requiring a permit and inspection is going to start at $1k.

Need licensed plumber and electricians for this install - all of that drives it up.

 

[D45]

I have under $800 in my 75k heater install.....including the heater

Never did this type of work before either

Do it all yourself- easy

 

[yeldogt]

Also, in regards to Heater size remember that you want something that will recover when you’re bringing the room up to temperature. My heater drives me crazy for the first hour or two I’m out there because it’s loud and it’s constantly kicking on and off. My garage is 840 square feet and 11’ tall and has a 45k model. When it’s really cold it will start the heating cycle again by the time it’s finished the last heating cycle, so it goes straight from cooling off into warming back up again. Makes me crazy.

I doubt that there’s a good way around that. It’s just because the garage is cold and as soon as the heater turns off the air cooled down quickly. I’m not sure if a digital thermostat would allow for a wider temperature set point but my manual one does not.

This is only made worse as the heater get's larger and oversized for the space --- the heater is heating the air. A large heater will quickly heat the air and shut off -- everything in the garage is still cold. Cold items **** out the heat and heater goes back on. Cycle keeps repeating. A lower BTU heater can actually make the space more comfortable as it's running longer ... even with less output.

This is always somewhat of a problem when temps are not maintained .. bigger is not better.

If you have a leaking building -- poor doors ... not much insulation. Don't maintain temps .... then a large heater may be what you need. When a building leaks and you go to heat it ... you are not heating just the building ... you are heating the outside as well. The heat in the building will flow out. So a big heater in a cold leaking building may feel great -- it runs and runs.

With NG being cheap today ... even under less than ideal conditions -- it;s cheap to heat.

 

[yeldogt]

The better units w/ stainless steel cost a bit more ... also, the last I checked the horizontal vents are more as well.

My guess is the gas line is a bit of the overall cost.

Do a load test on the building -- then plug that number into degree days for your area. Using your NG gas rate you can guess on the usage. I always tell people to do this -- figure out what it will cost to maintain a reasonable temp. With a decent building and doors most are surprised how affordable it is ... that way you buy the correct heater and don't oversize.

Knowledge is power.

 

[79firebird]

Depending on the size of unit you might have a gas line there but could be to small see it all the time with gas stoves a line is there most times is to small for the new one going in due to other appliances on the line

 

[madmaxnj]

This is pretty eye opening, since I am in a similar situation (not looking to hijack the thread). I have a 24x32x12 detached, insulated, and was looking at 60-75K heaters, like the brands mentioned here, and planning to run an LP tank outside the garage, rather than run NG from the house to the garage. I was thinking in the ballpark of $2K, but I guess I need a bigger budget. It also sounds like I was going overkill on the BTU as well. I'd like to keep the garage around 45-50 fulltime, and then crank it just before going in there. I'd adjust depending on consumption and warm up times. Keeping an eye on this thread for any more useful information.