Garage heating suggestions

[mristine]

I live in Minneapolis. 3 car garage. 10 foot ceilings. Insulated walls (the ceiling is not, but I could easily throw some fiberglass up there). Mostly I want the garage heated for woodworking, including staining and painting. I will not be out there everyday, Occasional weekends and some week nights.

Oh, I have 2 inch garage doors. Insulated. R9 ish. No windows, although I may put one in.

I have natural gas available (as opposed to LP).

Ready .... set .... go!

 

[TTA89]

Hanging forced air heater... Hot Dawg, Modine, Beacon Morris... Ton of choices and installs in this forum.

 

[astroracer]

Spot heating is going to be a problem with painting and staining. They need to be at room temperature to work correctly. If you plan to work out there keep the heat on to keep your materials, paint and stain from freezing. Firing up a heater "for the day" is not going to keep your materials warm enough to work with.
Mark

 

[D45]

Hanging forced air heater... Hot Dawg, Modine, Beacon Morris... Ton of choices and installs in this forum.

Agreed, especially with NG being available

 

[bzinsky]

I'd go traditional forced air system, It's very simple and easy to install. Just a single exposed duct down the middle of the garage and no return duct. The total system cost is cheap since it's so simple.

That's what I have in my 2 car garage, works great for occasional use. Most importantly it heats up the garage quickly.

 

[nafterclifen]

Copied and pasted from another thread...

My house is all electric. And my panel is in my garage. So I hung a Fahrenheat FUH725 (7500W) heater in the corner of the garage above the man door. Garage is 20x22x9. Walls are 2x4" insulated with R15 and ceiling is 2x6 insulated with R21. Both 9x7 garage doors are insulated too. Two windows and one man door. Heater will make you sweat in 1 hour if left on high, even if you are wearing shorts and tank top.

https://www.marleymep.com/system/files/node/file/field-file//zbl-fuh54.pdf

$390.00 Heater
$100.00 125' 8/2 NM-B copper wire (did not use all of it)
$ 20.00 40a breaker
$510.00 TOTAL

 

[Bolson32]

How cold does it get in PA Nafter? I'm doing something similar, just the 5000w heater but for a 1.5 car at 22x15. R15 in the walls and 3" of spray foam on the ceilings. I'm thinking it should be warm enough in there. I doubt I'll keep it on all the time but I bet it warms up plenty quick.

 

[Jon_E]

If I didn't have wood-fired radiant tubing (hot water) in my slab, I'd be installing a PTHP - that is, a packaged terminal heat pump. Similar to what is in a hotel room. Heating and cooling in one unit. I like my garage to be in the high 50's max during the winter, I sweat and I don't like wearing more than a t-shirt when working. Not ideal for paint and stain, but I can always jack the heat up to the 60's for a day or two when finishing is necessary. If the floor is warm, everything will feel warm.

 

[92nsx]

Being in woodworking you wont like the direct vent heaters. It will blow saw dust all over. You will prob want a infrared heater.
Something like this.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/tls/d/garage-heater/6355649160.html

How ever the 75k Beacon Morris direct vent heater you can pick up at your local Menards for $550 plus tax.

https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...1-c-6865.htm?tid=-5271519658189605562&ipos=18

 

[Bolson32]

I'm from Minnesota as well but mini splits/heat pumps apparently don't work worth a **** up here. I had at least two HVAC companies say they've put a bunch in and taken a bunch right back out because they only work when it's above zero. It frequently gets below 0 def Fahrenheit here so that's a big concern with heat pumps. They need to pull what little warm air there is out of the surrounding air and at -20 there isn't much to be had.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

Copied and pasted from another thread...

My house is all electric. And my panel is in my garage. So I hung a Fahrenheat FUH725 (7500W) heater in the corner of the garage above the man door. Garage is 20x22x9. Walls are 2x4" insulated with R15 and ceiling is 2x6 insulated with R21. Both 9x7 garage doors are insulated too. Two windows and one man door. Heater will make you sweat in 1 hour if left on high, even if you are wearing shorts and tank top.

https://www.marleymep.com/system/fil.../zbl-fuh54.pdf

$390.00 Heater
$100.00 125' 8/2 NM-B copper wire (did not use all of it)
$ 20.00 40a breaker
$510.00 TOTAL

I went this route as well except used a Profusion 7500 watt. It was 150 dollars at Menards. I used about 20 feet of wire, 40 amp breaker, a 50 amp range cord, 50 amp receptacle, single gauge new work box, some Romex straps, a couple conduit protectors, and some misc. hardware. I've got probably about 100 bucks in materials. Total cost for my heater setup was 250.

If I had NG readily available I'd probably go that route, but I would have had to trench piping from the meter as my garage is detached. Also, I've got far less in my heater setup than what I could have even gotten just the heater for. I figured to trench, the heater, and all the supplies I'd have at least 1500 bucks. I think 1250 dollars will buy a lot of electricity for just one heater that will only be used a couple hours a day.

 

[Bolson32]

I figured to trench, the heater, and all the supplies I'd have at least 1500 bucks. I think 1250 dollars will buy a lot of electricity for just one heater that will only be used a couple hours a day.

This is my thought process too. I got a quote for $2000 in St Paul for a forced air furnace and that didn't include me renting and trenching the NG pipe. $2000 can buy a lot of electricity, especially at ~.08/kWh.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

I'm from Minnesota as well but mini splits/heat pumps apparently don't work worth a **** up here. I had at least two HVAC companies say they've put a bunch in and taken a bunch right back out because they only work when it's above zero. It frequently gets below 0 def Fahrenheit here so that's a big concern with heat pumps. They need to pull what little warm air there is out of the surrounding air and at -20 there isn't much to be had.

I wondered this myself. I was thinking of doing a mini-split or heat pump but almost nobody I talked to heard anything about using them in a garage application unless the garage was heated all the time. My worry is that I'd wanna use it and it wouldn't work worth a **** and having spent a lot to set one up would be pissed that my 75k BTU kerosene heater would have worked instead of it.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

This is my thought process too. I got a quote for $2000 in St Paul for a forced air furnace and that didn't include me renting and trenching the NG pipe. $2000 can buy a lot of electricity, especially at ~.08/kWh.

When I priced a gas vs electric heater the electric 27,000 BTU was 150 dollars for a decent quality one (Profusion). For a similar NG/propane one it was 400 dollars for the low end (Mr. Heater) and 600 for a higher end (Beacon Morris). I would have had to run approximately 100' of trenching from the meter to the garage. A contractor friend told me that to do it myself would have cost at least 600 bucks minimum to rent the trencher and get the supplies. That's not including permit costs. I figure to pay someone to do it would have been at least 1000 minimum. I was able to easily do the electric one all myself, and ended up with a total cost of about 250 dollars. The gas one would have run me at least 1500 I figured. For someone that will only run it for a couple hours of run time a day I highly doubt the gas one would ever pay for itself, especially since we are going to move in a couple years. I also like the fact of no fumes, no combustibles, and it's quiet.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

If I didn't have wood-fired radiant tubing (hot water) in my slab, I'd be installing a PTHP - that is, a packaged terminal heat pump. Similar to what is in a hotel room. Heating and cooling in one unit. I like my garage to be in the high 50's max during the winter, I sweat and I don't like wearing more than a t-shirt when working. Not ideal for paint and stain, but I can always jack the heat up to the 60's for a day or two when finishing is necessary. If the floor is warm, everything will feel warm.

I'm with you, I hate sweating when working and 50's are plenty warm when there's heating being produced. 50 degrees in an 8 foot ceiling is different than 50 degrees in a 20 foot ceiling. If it was 65 degrees at the thermostat in the last shop I worked at it was cold as hell.

 

[Bolson32]

How big is your shop Auto and where are you located? I have a 15x22 open ceiling and a low hip roof, so maybe 12ft at the peak. Spray foam insulation, wondering if I should spring for the 7500watt or if the 5000watt will do. Only plan on running 50amp service out to the garage.

 

[nafterclifen]

How cold does it get in PA Nafter? I'm doing something similar, just the 5000w heater but for a 1.5 car at 22x15. R15 in the walls and 3" of spray foam on the ceilings. I'm thinking it should be warm enough in there. I doubt I'll keep it on all the time but I bet it warms up plenty quick.

I'm in NE PA which is mountains. Below is a link displaying averages from a local town.

https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/east-stroudsburg/pennsylvania/united-states/uspa2809

Wattage can be set to either 3750, 5000, 6250 or 7500. It ships at the max (7500) which is where I left it. The temperature control dial has a built-in thermostat. I keep it on the dot just before Low (see attached pic). This keeps the garage at 55, unless temperatures are in the single digits then it drops to 50 in the garage.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

How big is your shop Auto and where are you located? I have a 15x22 open ceiling and a low hip roof, so maybe 12ft at the peak. Spray foam insulation, wondering if I should spring for the 7500watt or if the 5000watt will do. Only plan on running 50amp service out to the garage.

Approximately 15x27x8. Located in central Iowa. The 5000 watt Profusion was 100 dollars. The 7500 watt was 150. They both use 220/240. Only difference is the 5000 watt uses a 30 amp breaker and 10/2. 7500 watt uses 8/2 and 40 amp breaker. If you've got 50 amp service you've got plenty for the 7500. You're talking maybe a 75 dollar price difference between the heater and supplies. The breakers cost the same amount, and the Romex isn't a huge price difference, maybe 20 dollars in a 50' roll. The 8 gauge is just a little harder to work with compared to 10 since it's stranded so it's bigger. Either way though you're still doing all the same prep work.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

I'm in NE PA which is mountains. Below is a link displaying averages from a local town.

https://www.usclimatedata.com/climate/east-stroudsburg/pennsylvania/united-states/uspa2809

Wattage can be set to either 3750, 5000, 6250 or 7500. It ships at the max (7500) which is where I left it. The temperature control dial has a built-in thermostat. I keep it on the dot just before Low (see attached pic). This keeps the garage at 55, unless temperatures are in the single digits then it drops to 50 in the garage.

Glad to hear it's working well for you! I'm in the process of finishing up some insulation work. I don't have any in the walls but have 1" foil faced foam on the ceiling with R13 kraft faced and 1/2" OSB on top of the trusses. It makes a HUGE difference between open trusses and closed. Essentially you're dropping the ceiling 4' when you close the ceiling off. Right now my big push is to get a nice 2" R6 garage door since I've got a garbage wood one now that's super drafty.

 

[Bolson32]

Approximately 15x27x8. Located in central Iowa. The 5000 watt Profusion was 100 dollars. The 7500 watt was 150. They both use 220/240. Only difference is the 5000 watt uses a 30 amp breaker and 10/2. 7500 watt uses 8/2 and 40 amp breaker. If you've got 50 amp service you've got plenty for the 7500.

This is a concern, I would like to use one of these that I posted in another thread and run an actual thermostat.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037MXM1C/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Looks to only be rated at 24amps, which would work on the 5000 but would appear to be undersized for the 7500. Unless I'm not factoring something in.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

This is a concern, I would like to use one of these that I posted in another thread and run an actual thermostat.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037MXM1C/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Looks to only be rated at 24amps, which would work on the 5000 but would appear to be undersized for the 7500. Unless I'm not factoring something in.

I'm not sure what the 6400 watt setting uses for amperage but it's possible you could just leave it on that and still use the Aube transformer.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

I would think the least expensive option (at least up front) would be electric that someone posted about early on. If you aren't going to heat the garage very often, the lower price per BTU of the NG over electric will take a long time to make up for the higher expected initial cost.

Presume OP is going to heavily insulate the ceiling/attic and work hard to eliminate any avoidable air infiltration.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

I would think the least expensive option (at least up front) would be electric that someone posted about early on. If you aren't going to heat the garage very often, the lower price per BTU of the NG over electric will take a long time to make up for the higher expected initial cost.

Presume OP is going to heavily insulate the ceiling/attic and work hard to eliminate any avoidable air infiltration.

That was my thoughts. If the place is properly insulated it's going to hold heat very well. Yes, the initial on time may be high, but after that to maintain the temp is very little. Also, in my case, I was dealing with a little bit of a space concern. The electric heaters of a similar size to a gas heater are MUCH smaller. I used my garage to make extra money as well, so it's paid for anyways. If I was out there screwing around for hours on end with no capital gain I would highly reconsider, especially if I was going to be there for years and years.

 

[nafterclifen]

Oh, and don't forget about green hinges! I have them installed on both of my doors for piece of mind.

 

[nafterclifen]

I'm not sure what the 6400 watt setting uses for amperage but it's possible you could just leave it on that and still use the Aube transformer.

Fixed the link to the Fahrenheat spec sheet in my original reply. According to it, below are WATTS and AMPS @ 240v...

15.6a @ 3750w
20.8a @ 5000w
26.0a @ 6250w
31.3a @ 7500w

Not sure how this compares to the Profusion unit.

 

[nafterclifen]

I'm not sure what the 6400 watt setting uses for amperage but it's possible you could just leave it on that and still use the Aube transformer.

This is a concern, I would like to use one of these that I posted in another thread and run an actual thermostat.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0037MXM1C/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Looks to only be rated at 24amps, which would work on the 5000 but would appear to be undersized for the 7500. Unless I'm not factoring something in.

Here is a link that I had bookmarked which describes the install and parts needed to install an external (digital) thermostat on a 240v heater.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55584

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

Fixed the link to the Fahrenheat spec sheet in my original reply. According to it, below are WATTS and AMPS @ 240v...

15.6a @ 3750w
20.8a @ 5000w
26.0a @ 6250w
31.3a @ 7500w

Not sure how this compares to the Profusion unit.

Same specs as the Profusion.

 

[NewShockerGuy]

Wanted to add as well and ask questions. My garage gets cold in the winter/hot in the summer so having air and heat during the opposite times would be beneficial.

When we travel overseas they have these units that do both heat and air conditioning but I don't know what they are called nor how hard of an install it would be.

Could something like this be put in a garage? It would seem idea since it can do both but not take up precious space... What is involved with an install like this? Just wire up electrical and then bolt it on the wall?

Thanks,
-Nigel

 

[mristine]

I would think the least expensive option (at least up front) would be electric that someone posted about early on. If you aren't going to heat the garage very often, the lower price per BTU of the NG over electric will take a long time to make up for the higher expected initial cost.

Presume OP is going to heavily insulate the ceiling/attic and work hard to eliminate any avoidable air infiltration.

Yep, I am going to insulate the ceiling. When I said I have NG available, I meant I can run the line. I put a "t" in front of the 2 pound regulator for this purpose when I ran the line for my range. I would still need about 100' of copper to get there.

I am leaning towards electric. 5000w or 7500w? Profusion or Fahrenheit?

 

[Bolson32]

Wanted to add as well and ask questions. My garage gets cold in the winter/hot in the summer so having air and heat during the opposite times would be beneficial.

Could something like this be put in a garage? It would seem idea since it can do both but not take up precious space... What is involved with an install like this? Just wire up electrical and then bolt it on the wall?

Thanks,
-Nigel

Depends on where you are Nigel. This is the Mini-split I was talking about earlier. It's essentially an air conditioner, there's an outside condenser and just no ducts. When you run it the other way it works as a heat pump. The OP and I are in Minnesota and they will work here most of the time, but it frequently gets to sub zero temperatures and they don't really work when it gets that cold. If you live in a more moderate climate, this is very likely the route I would go.

 

[justinjoyal]

Wanted to add as well and ask questions. My garage gets cold in the winter/hot in the summer so having air and heat during the opposite times would be beneficial.



When we travel overseas they have these units that do both heat and air conditioning but I don't know what they are called nor how hard of an install it would be.

Could something like this be put in a garage? It would seem idea since it can do both but not take up precious space... What is involved with an install like this? Just wire up electrical and then bolt it on the wall?



Thanks,

-Nigel

I find it kinda funny (no offense) that you mention you see them when going overseas, because they’re pretty much everywhere here in Quebec/Canada and I see them very often in the US as well. [emoji6]

Depends on where you are Nigel. This is the Mini-split I was talking about earlier. It's essentially an air conditioner, there's an outside condenser and just no ducts. When you run it the other way it works as a heat pump. The OP and I are in Minnesota and they will work here most of the time, but it frequently gets to sub zero temperatures and they don't really work when it gets that cold. If you live in a more moderate climate, this is very likely the route I would go.

Most mini-split heatpumps nowadays will have great output down to ~ -5F.

The best models provide up to 80% of their nominal capacity @ -25F !

 

[Rockcam]

If you are doing painting, look into radiant tube heaters.

Very even heat, no fan to blow dust around on wet paint.

Great in really cold climates like ours.

 

[yeldogt]

Heated one of my studios for years w/ electric -- only thing available. Electric is easy and cheap to install if you have the Amps available -- silent ... the only problem is the cost of operation. When electric is .20kw you become an expert in building envelope management.

Some people can work in a cold shop w/ gloves and any heat is too much -- I don't want to be bundled up. w/ .20KW electric .......propane needs to get close to $4.50gl before equal in cost to the electric. Currently that makes propane 40% of electric costs. NG can be 1/3 the cost of propane ..... so if NG is available is's a fraction (Cost) of heating with electric.

If you are building or planning on staying and you have NG available -- it's the cheapest long term way to a nice warm shop.

Mini splits are great -- with all the models available you can't generalize about performance ... it all about getting the proper unit with proper capacities for the intended use. Look at the COP .. many of the better units can get you full performance down to about 5 and are still producing heat 3x cheaper vs electric resistance. If you only have real cold temps a few days a year -- having a resistance heater to help out the HP is another way to go ... the heat pump is still giving you what it can much cheaper vs resistance. But.. BG is still cheaper to operate .. it's all question of size. A big shop in a cold climate w/ poor insulation is going to benefit from the cheapest fuel.

That electric studio was my first mini -- it was years ago before VS and hyper .. but it saved me lots of $$ over always having to use the electric resistance and through the wall unit for AC.

Like window units, the PTAC are loud (like a motel) ... hated that thing ... it was a heat pump ... so I ran the unit when I was not there ... shut it off when I arrived and used the resistance. It was the main reason I got the mini -- for the AC so I would not have to listen to the PTAC in the summer.

To the OP -- With staining and finishing ... you need to get a sealed combustion unit. The new cabinet units are really nice -- and they blow the heat along the floor. I use one and really like it.

 

[fmzip]

I went this route as well except used a Profusion 7500 watt. It was 150 dollars at Menards. I used about 20 feet of wire, 40 amp breaker, a 50 amp range cord, 50 amp receptacle, single gauge new work box, some Romex straps, a couple conduit protectors, and some misc. hardware. I've got probably about 100 bucks in materials. Total cost for my heater setup was 250.

If I had NG readily available I'd probably go that route, but I would have had to trench piping from the meter as my garage is detached. Also, I've got far less in my heater setup than what I could have even gotten just the heater for. I figured to trench, the heater, and all the supplies I'd have at least 1500 bucks. I think 1250 dollars will buy a lot of electricity for just one heater that will only be used a couple hours a day.

Is this unit quiet? I've read reviews that some of these Like the Farenheit clack really loud when they turn on, like startling loud, wake you from a sound sleep loud?

 

[Bolson32]

Is this unit quiet? I've read reviews that some of these Like the Farenheit clack really loud when they turn on, like startling loud, wake you from a sound sleep loud?

The Profusion 5000watt is pretty quiet. No clunk, just hear the fan. For a garage it's super quiet I'd say.

 

[The_Auto_Tech]

Is this unit quiet? I've read reviews that some of these Like the Farenheit clack really loud when they turn on, like startling loud, wake you from a sound sleep loud?

I don't notice the clack unless it's dead quiet in the garage. To me it would not wake me up from sleeping. I'm not sure why it would be a problem anyways as it's more quiet than any combustion furnace.