Garage Heating

[CountyCop911]

So I decided to finish my 3-Car currently unfinished attached garage. I have it completely insulated and sheet-rocked. Even though it is ~ 15 degrees here currently the area maintains around 50 degrees or ~ +35 considring outside. Here is my dilemma. Looking for a heater and if I had a magic wand I would select a natural gas force air hung from the ceiling however the unit requires venting to the outside for the flu. My problem is directly above anywhere the unit would be mounted is a living space and additionally venting horizontally to the outside is not an option. I would prefer to avoid electric considering the inefficiency of supplying heat however it is what it is. I have (2) 300-amp diverse route electric services in the house so provisioning the amperage is not a concern. Couple of issues, first I want to use it selectively, by that I mean if I am not working out there or have some sort of gathering where it might be used I may choose to not use it, easy enough with a switch or thermostat, just mentioning a parameter. The possibility exist in which I could install a small furnace in the basement (already have 3 so the wife probably will not notice if I slip one in) below however it would require some amount of additional duct work and cost since I hate and **** working with vents. Wondering if anyone else has encountered the situation and what their solution was. Just might be I answered my own question and electric is the only reasonable solution. The garage is 36 x 24 x 11 or slightly over 9,500 cubic feet.

 

[bmcdowell40]

I think you answered your own question. If you can't (or dont want to) vent vertically or horizontally, your only option would be to go electric.

Why is it not an option to vent horizontally?

 

[curiousB]

I would think putting a furnace in basement and then ducting to garage is more work than solving a vent solution for ceiling hung "Mr Heater/modine/hotdawg" style NG unit. One 3"-4" B-vent v.s. return and supply air ducts of 150 sqin each or more. I also suspect its not legal to ingest garage air into the home to heat it and send it back due to potential carbon monoxide cross contamination.

I vented vertical in a garage with a bonus room over it. The second story was slightly smaller foot print than garage so I have short "hip roof" on a couple sides that I ran up the vent (behind the 2nd floor knee wall). How about running up in a closet corner and just box in that corner with drywall? Also horizontal has to have some options.

Electric is 3.5X the operating cost in IL over NG so you decide how hard you want to find a NG solution. I would rule out unvented heaters as they create a ton of moisture and I think they make you noxious.

 

[regguy1]

I have the Mr. Heater 45K BTU NG in my 26' x 30' and it heats the space very well, you can see it in this video:

 

[CountyCop911]

bmcdowell40, as to the horizontal venting 2 sides are exposed to the inside of the house the others are on the front of the house and I can't think of a way to make it cosmetically pleasing and functional.

 

[mebedave]

Maybe something portable that you can bring the heat to you instead waiting for the whole garage to heat up. Built heaters start heating from the ceiling down. As an idea look at this http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200481573_200481573?cm_mmc=Google-pla-_-Heaters-_-Electric%20Heaters-_-173066&ci_sku=173066&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw={keyword}

 

[ptschram]

Vent-free heaters aren't that bad IF you have a good air circulation scheme. Move the air,t eh condensation isn't as bad and the air is moving and moving air is good.

I pick up the parts to install my oil furnace on Tuesday! Can't wait.

 

[dave67fd]

i could install a small furnace in the basement (already have 3 so the wife probably will not notice if i slip one in)

huh!!

 

[drb007]

Before you bail on electric, seriously consider a Mitsubishi Minisplit system. Very efficient, very inexpensive to run, great even heat AND you get AC!
After lots of consideration, this is what I did. So much cheaper than the HotDawg natural gas heater I used to run. It will pay for itself in a year!

 

[RKA]

Before you bail on electric, seriously consider a Mitsubishi Minisplit system. Very efficient, very inexpensive to run, great even heat AND you get AC!
After lots of consideration, this is what I did. So much cheaper than the HotDawg natural gas heater I used to run. It will pay for itself in a year!

A couple issues with this...
1. Initial expense can be higher
2. Condensor would likely be mounted on the side wall, so still visible from the front of the house. If you don't like an unsightly vent pipe, this may not make you any happier.
3. Reset your expectations about heat on demand. It may take a few hours to get the garage up to temp (possible more if the unit has to go into defrost cycle too often). Having two shared walls with the house will help a bit because they are already "heating" the garage a bit. You'll also need to oversize the unit a bit (if you plan to turn the unit on/off routinely). At 15F ambient, you're already losing considerable heat output.

All that said, I use mine occasionally and love it so far (installed 2 mos ago). The time to temp is a bit longer than I was hoping for, but the compromise is worth it considering the low running costs. And over it's lifespan, energy costs will only go higher.

 

[drb007]

In my application, the install cost was very close to running NG, as I have a detached workshop and had to run underground gas line. In an attached garage the cost for the heat pump will be higher initially, but with lower operating costs, you will make that back quickly.

 

[CountyCop911]

I have been weighing my options and came to the conclusion I will likely be limited to Electric Heat. I have some real physical limitations surrounding NG. As I mentioned prior, my application will not demand fulltime usage however I want to be able to selectively use the Heater on an as-needed basis. I considered including the Air Conditioning aspect as well however the Garage in question is used as the main entrance to the house and there is some amount of opening and closing of the doors day and night. That and the fact the warmer temperatures have never bothered me so I do not think the AC side would make sense for me. That being said does anyone have an online source they have used for the purchase or research of permanently mounted Electric Heaters? Not that it is necessarily a bad thing however most appear to be portables with brackets to hang them from the ceiling or wall. I found this website http://www.ultimategarageheater.com/garage-heater-calculator.php that has a calculator you can use to determine, by entering Heater Type, Space, and Demand parameters, the recommended BTU and Wattages. It is not limited to just the Electric option. Nevertheless for me the determination was 43,000 BTU/hr or 12,600 watts. Most of the higher Wattage units require 3-Phase power which is not an option for me considering residential AC power. Thanks for your time.

 

[dave67fd]

One of the more popular electric heaters is the Dayton G73. There are other similar units but you get what you pay for here. Some links to a couple of the more popular sites with good info.

Those heaters will cost a fortune to buy and run at that wattage but as you said is irrelevant because of 3ph.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_heaters-stoves-fireplaces+electric+electric-heaters

http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/category/portable-outdoor-heaters

 

[RKA]

It seems like you can get up to a 35K btu unit on single phase, which should heat that space up easily in under an hour. If you're only looking for a 10-20 degree rise, that might even be too much. But this site will give you an idea on sizes and options. Can't endorse the site or the brands...just found it doing a quick google search. Dayton is a good brand though.

http://www.heater-store.com/heavy_duty_unit_heater_dimplex_11806_prd1.htm

 

[curiousB]

It seems like you can get up to a 35K btu unit on single phase,

Yes but that is going to require a 40-50A 240V branch circuit. That is some beefy wiring you'll need to do.

 

[RKA]

I have (2) 300-amp diverse route electric services in the house so provisioning the amperage is not a concern.

It's going to be costly to run, but that's what he wants.

 

[curiousB]

About 90¢ an hour to run based on IL pricing..... (maybe he has good insulation so it won't cycle much once warmed).