Garage hoist

[Dustin Pahl]

Okay I am planning on buying a manual chain hoist to lift deer bear lawn mowers atvs and anything else heavy in the garage. The problem is I can't afford to buy a whole trolly system or I beam or anything fancy like that.. My plan is to build a beam with 3 2x4s and lay them across the trusses in the garage. Then attach something like this with an eye bolt to hook the hoist to. the other problem I came across looking in my garage is how the trusses are out together I don't know if this will be structurally sound. This is where I plan to put it. Only 10 foot instead of 8 just so I have a mid point in between trusses. But I need to know if I put it here will it hold the weight I need. I am buying a 1/2 ton hoist. The clips holding the 2x4s together on the left are what concern me. Any help with this project would be great!

 

[readhead]

The bottom cords of the truss 's are speced to hold up drywall and not much else.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

But will by extending over 6 trusses be strong enough for my needs?

 

[Dustin Pahl]

Or what would you suggest trying to do build some kind of a beam at the peak?

 

[SILVERPLATE]

I don't think it would work if went across a dozen truss's, like Readhead said this bottom pieces will not really hold anything at all. You need a new concept that does involve your truss's.

 

[kbs2244]

You will never find anyone to recomend what you discribed.
But I have seen it done hundreds of times.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

99% of the time I will be using this to skin deer.. That's why I'm doing it. So I will rarely have anything over 250 pounds at the most. I just want it to have enough to support more if I wanted. And if I get any bears to skin or hang.

 

[rancherbill]

Don't do it.

If I was doing it I'd us 3 2x6 or thicker. On a Heavy load the 2x4s will bend and the two adjacent trusses will end up with all the load.

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

I weigh 260 lbs. I walk on trusses all the time. One truss, not spreading the weight over four trusses. I haven't had a truss break out from under me in 30 years. You won't have a problem IMO.

Sent from my XT1032

 

[pattenp]

Run a tie from the beam up to the peak of each of the two trusses that the load will be centered between. You'll be fine with what you plan to lift. The ties will help spread the load out to the walls. The tie can be made up using some cable with a turn buckle.

 

[HoosierMark]

If your only going to do it on a temporary basis, why not make a couple of cripple props to put between the floor and the bottom of the truss. Make them with a U so they can slide up each side of the bottom chord. When you are done, kick the bottom out and put them in the corner or store them out of the way. Simple temporary support for what you plan to hang.

 

[DC73]

Run a tie from the beam up to the peak of each of the two trusses that the load will be centered between. You'll be fine with what you plan to lift. The ties will help spread the load out to the walls. The tie can be made up using some cable with a turn buckle.

I like this approach. If it was me, I'd do the overkill thing and run ties to the top of each truss above the beam. I'd also use something beefier than 2x4s - 2x6s at a minimum.

DC

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Those joists don't span the whole width of your garage. They are tied with those cheap plates ( correct way to do it, but it isn't done for support). You put any sort of moderate load across two or even three and they will start sagging and eventually drop.

My advice is collar ties with struts dropping down to the joists.

 

[matt_i]

Couple of things, its not a good idea, it violates all sorts of safety rules by not knowing the engineering allowance for the truss, etc. You build it for a deer and then decide it might be OK to pull a big block out of your Custom Deluxe.

That said, as mentioned above, trusses typically won't break on you if you walk on them. Trusses typically won't break if you jump up and down on them, that's probably 4x to 5x the loading due to impact.

Were I doing the project for myself I'd do as suggested and run a couple of vertical 2x4s up on each side next to the peak.

I do have a different suggestion with the design of the hook hanger. Don't attempt to weld it like a handcuff around a stack of beams as you will have a smoky charred mess if you get any sort of weld penetration. What I would build is 2 pieces of plate which are shaped like a lower case "t" without the hook on the bottom. The horizontal piece will sit atop the stack of beams (ideally an equal number of wood beams on each side). Cut, via a mill or torch, a closed-end slot in the center of this horizontal plate, thru which you pass a piece of vertical flat bar. Then fillet-weld both above and below the horizontal plate (build it on a bench). Drill a hole in the bottom end of the vertical bar, making sure there is 1-1/2 diameters of material under the hole. Then attach an anchor shackle for your hoist point, or if the hoist has its own hook, use a holesaw to cut a hole for that directly into the plate.

This design puts your weld in a double shear mode, its much stronger than the original design proposed which is in direct tension. Its not that the first design won't work but you are putting max confidence (iow something over your head large enough to kill you) in your personal weld quality when you put a weld in tension. In shear, there is more margin for error.

Are you a millwright who spends 20 hrs each week running overhead beads or are you a person who drags a buzz box out a couple times a year? I have no idea, either is fine, but the idea is to put strength into the design rather than being completely reliant on your welds if you don't have that much experience.

 

[wssix99]

I feel like this is one of those threads where this is going to happen, no matter what anyone says.

I don't personally recommend doing this, (It would be much better to use a rig that transfers the load to the floor.) but if you do, here are some things that will increase your chances of survival and the roof not collapsing:

- Get away from the middle of the room. The middle of the trusses are the weakest point for this kind of thing. The closer you move towards the walls, the more load will be transferred to them in a way where the trusses are stronger.

- Use the 2X4's for something else. They are really weak and will form a "U" as they are put under load. This will concentrate the load and will undo any benefit you might get from running them across multiple trusses. 2X6, 2X8, etc. would be better.

- Anything you can do to bear on the top chords of the trusses is better. They are designed to withstand downward forces. (The bottom chords are not.)

- Don't stress the trusses like this with snow on the roof.

- Have a friend skin the dear with the door open and watch from the outside.

 

[xtremek]

A couple of thoughts pop in my head, although I'm no civil engineer. Why build your tube when you can buy it? Why not drill a hole through the bottom of the tube and put a nut on the eye bolt instead of welding? Use a tube that's slightly oversized so you have room to throw a nut on it. Lastly, if you're really worried about the trusses carrying the weight, prop the ends up with some 4x4's. Take them out and store them in the corner, or someplace out of the way when you don't need them. Use some kind of jack screw to make sure the 4x4's are actually doing the supporting. Just my $.02.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

I'm not sure I quite follow the new approach at the hook hanger part but I have a feeling I should definitely change my plan for that. Second I have decided to use 2x6s for the actual beam and 2x4s to brace it more kind of like this... ???? and if need be I can get a couple 4x4s for extra support to the floor I'm lifting something overly heavy. Does that seem like enough? I'm interested in understanding the new hook hanger idea however.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

By the way my idea for the hanger would be welded prior to putting on the beam and then slid onto the end before setting the beam.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

Should I run the ties to the peak or to where I have in the picture?

 

[pattenp]

Tie should go close to the peak.

 

[zcar751]

Your idea would work for the occasional light lift but I would want to beef up the trusses that are being loaded and spread the load across more trusses with at least 2x4x16. You could sister some 2x6s to the trusses or use 3/4 plywood cut in 4 inch length screwed and glued to the truss on both sides.

 

[wssix99]

Second I have decided to use 2x6s for the actual beam and 2x4s to brace it more kind of like this...

You don't want to do that.

The truss modifications, as you have drawn them, will likely make your roof weaker by pulling on other parts of the truss in ways they weren't designed. It's hard enough on the trusses that you have chosen to put your load at the weakest point on the whole unit, but transferring loads inside the trusses can make things much worse. (Best to leave truss modifications to truss engineers.)

Given the way your bottom chord is spliced, you can probably double the holding capacity of your roof just by moving your load half the distance towards one of the walls.

 

[carotene]

As PP mentioned, those bottom chords are not continuous. They are 2 - 2x4's joined with plates. The bottom cords of the truss are designed to be in tension, keeping the two pitches of the roof from flattening out by gravity. Definitely not designed for point loads at any point on the span.

250 lbs is enough of a load you'll want to span the load bearing walls (not the gable walls) or bearing wall to pole/support.

I'd go with temp supports under the span as PP mentioned.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

You don't want to do that.



The truss modifications, as you have drawn them, will likely make your roof weaker by pulling on other parts of the truss in ways they weren't designed. It's hard enough on the trusses that you have chosen to put your load at the weakest point on the whole unit, but transferring loads inside the trusses can make things much worse. (Best to leave truss modifications to truss engineers.)



Given the way your bottom chord is spliced, you can probably double the holding capacity of your roof just by moving your load half the distance towards one of the walls.

So what would you suggest I do if I can't move toward a wall? How could I brace it Better without sacrificing the original truss support..?

 

[Kellyblues]

One of my best friends is a self employed carpenter. He has a photo album of this concept gone wrong. Even some you wouldn't think would have given in.

 

[wssix99]

So what would you suggest I do if I can't move toward a wall? How could I brace it Better without sacrificing the original truss support..?

If you have to put the load there, right in the middle of your room, I would either:
- Tear out the entire roof and install a new one that is engineered for what you want to do.
- Have a "friend" do the work in the garage while you observe safely from the outside.
- Find another way to joist your loads in the room.

The proper tool for this situation is a gantry lift or a tripod:

^ These safely transfer the load to the floor, which is strong. Commercially available ones can be pricey and are designed to hold greater loads than you are looking to deal with. You can copy the design with wood or metal pipe from your local lumber yard and accomplish the same thing. You could even take an old metal children's swingset, cut it down a little, and be good to go.

A system with metal pipe would allow you to just unscrew the thing and store it in the corner of the garage when you don't need it.

You can also get tripod headers for this kind of thing and use whatever length of pipe you want. http://www.nativeoutdoors.com/boss-buck-tripod-header-with-pulley.html#.VcIyB98c11Q

Potentially, you could even get one of these tripods higher up in your rafters than the lift you are envisioning. All you need to do is get whatever length of pipe you need.

 

[Diesel Dan]

...

I've seen people pull engines with less bracing(aka, none) on 30' residential trusses spread out over two 8' 2x4s. I don't recommend what they did and don't plan on duplicating it but there was no structural failure.

There were times when I had to use the trusses to lift something. We spread the load out over several trusses and then ran supports down to the concrete. Had to pull the cab off a tractor and needed every inch we could get.

 

[Dragoonmc]

As others have said, if it has to be right there in the middle then sister pieces of plywood over the metal plates, then run cables to the top chord of the truss that is meant to hold a load and again sistering plywood to over the metal plates will help. Also use 2x6 or 8 with something to keep them from trying to rotate on you

 

[Dragoonmc]

Also any way you can get the load directly to the floor is going to be better than the above

 

[kbs2244]

Guys.
He is talking a deer, maybe a black bear or a lawn tractor.
That is a 200 lb max.
As said, more than one 250 lb plus carpenter has gone from one wall to the other by using the bottom cord of a truss.
And most never even thought about it and lived to go to diner that night.
He is not talking about D8 Cats or Abrams tanks.

 

[gscallon]

Here's a thought. If the bottom chord of your trusses is something like 8 feet off the ground, why don't you just get one or two eight foot long two by fours and attach u-shaped simpson-type brackets on one end of each of them. Store these posts against the wall, or outside, or even slide them up on the chords themselves where they're out of the way. Then when you want to hang something from your truss, just grab them and prop them in place with the simpson bracket cradling the bottom chord and the other end on the ground. Put one on either side of the hang point and you essentially have a strong crane/tripod type setup. When you're done just remove the vertical posts and slide them back up in the rafters so they're out of the way. Cheap, easy, and likely to be more than strong enough for what you're looking to do.

Good luck!
-Greg

 

[Kellyblues]

Guys.
He is talking a deer, maybe a black bear or a lawn tractor.
That is a 200 lb max.
As said, more than one 250 lb plus carpenter has gone from one wall to the other by using the bottom cord of a truss.
And most never even thought about it and lived to go to diner that night.
He is not talking about D8 Cats or Abrams tanks.

I hoped my carpenter friend on one the jobs he did where this idea went wrong. The only thing the guy had hung was deer. It was that stress over time. The pulling to skin it and so on. If I remember it was about 5 years. He had the tack plates or what ever those are called joining everything.

 

[wssix99]

Guys.
He is talking a deer, maybe a black bear or a lawn tractor.
That is a 200 lb max.

I have faith in the OP's marksmanship and outdoor skills and see him doing much better than that.

more than one 250 lb plus carpenter has gone from one wall to the other by using the bottom cord of a truss.

When they do that, the walls provide intermediate support and it's nothing like this situation.

 

[readhead]

Nothing ever fails until it does and then we won't hear about it. Back when I lived in California I knew a contractor that fixed trusses. That is all he did and kept five guys busy. Mostly for things like this or people that loaded the "attic" with mountains of ****.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

If i decide to just run 4x4s down to the ground under 2 bottom chords how far apart could inhale these to make any difference? Could I have them 10 feet apart my total length of my beam? Or would they have to be closer together toward where I am lifting?

 

[Hounddog]

Keep your eye out for someone selling an I beam/A frame rig...with wheels so you can push around the shop. Some can be sketchy so look at the fab closely. Push it to the back of the shop when it's not needed.

 

[Smiliesafari]

I've done pretty much the same. Only spanned 4 trusses. Lifted engines and transmissions. Never had a problem. Trusses are a lot stronger than most people think. Just don't stand under whatever you're hanging.

 

[Dragoonmc]

I've done pretty much the same. Only spanned 4 trusses. Lifted engines and transmissions. Never had a problem. Trusses are a lot stronger than most people think. Just don't stand under whatever you're hanging.

Were your trusses split in the middle like his are though?

 

[Vegaman_Dan]

The design as presented will put the whole thing in tension, not compression, with the weight pulling down over open unsupported space. The truss design works by compression and in this situation, the weight will compromise the bottom stringer by pulling it out of line and actively breaking the compression of the triangle.

Will it work? For such a light weight, probably. Is it safe? Maybe. Will it damage the roof? Possibly. You won't know until it is too late.

Gantry or tripod made out of wood would be very easy to quickly build and set up where you need it. It could also easily be knocked down and stored. That would be my choice for this type of lift requirement.

If you absolutely need / want to do a truss, then build a separate one that fits into the space that is built to stand the needs of the design. Sheathed in plywood would be an excellent choice as well.

 

[Dustin Pahl]

Okay after looking in my shed today it will be hard to work around lateral posts even if they are removable.. So my question is.. Is there any way I can just use my beam and my trusses and have it sturdy enough to do what I need? I could so extra bracing or something. That's all I can ask at this point I need to get working on this project but I want to do it right.. Somewhat.. I don't want a tri pod or posts or anything like that. All I want is an eyebolt mounted to the ceiling in some way that I can hook my chain hoist to during deer season when I cut up and skin deer.. That will hold more than enough weight. Please help me on this I am becoming very frustrated. Please help!!!