Garage layout critique

[tx71nova]

Hi everyone,

Im currently in the process of designing my 30x50 garage im going to start building this summer. Pic attached

Iv finalized the size and everything even with the city so im good there, I just wanted everyones opinion on layout if I have to prep for something/location change in the slab.

Background: The shop/garage is mainly design around cars and working on them but not as a job. I have a 71 Nova im always working on and making better and I just got a 69 C10 that I plan to do alot of fab work to.

The one big thing I wanted was to never have to shuffle cars around to get one out, thats why the garage doors are on the long side not the narrow side.

My main concern is lift placement and just curious what you guys/gals think?

 

[Monza Harry]

Seems like a real good starting place! You will re-configure more than "Geordi La Forge" re-configures plasma conduit, over time as your "acquisitions" come and go. You have shown your cleverness in that you don't show it filled to capacity on day one [I am not anywhere near that clever, mine was about 1000 square ft. short at conception] The spacing between all of your doors leaves wall space for things like a parts washer and an "H" frame press [and room to open the doors on the "Rides" that you will almost definitely want to add with your listed projects. And then the 1.7 Billion things you see that you didn't even know you wanted/needed! You also look to have lots of height for more vertical storage. Harry

 

[rsanter]

I question the location of the man door.
The area between the door and the front wall seems like dead space.
What are you planning with that area?
You can put a shelf against the front wall and move the door toward the front a bit.
Doors and walkways are often good at keeping space clear for shelf access or for space in front of machines

 

[Notch1988]

Just make sure you have enough room to roll a car on dollies from the hoist over to the open bays. Where and what kind of heat are you going with?

 

[tx71nova]

Thanks, i know it will fill up as Iv seen my dads garages fill up. I plan on utilizing the height of the walls with shelfs and possibly a mezzanine. I do plan on putting more equipment in there but the program I use crashes if I put more stuff in it.

The space behind the door I was wondering what to do with, I think I will move the door up, 2-3ft from the front wall should work. It gives enough room to put storage or a bench behind it.

Im going to be putting in floor radiant heat.

 

[Mikeske]

I question the location of the man door.
The area between the door and the front wall seems like dead space.
What are you planning with that area?
You can put a shelf against the front wall and move the door toward the front a bit.
Doors and walkways are often good at keeping space clear for shelf access or for space in front of machines

I actually think the man door should be moved to as close to the back corner of the shop and the main reason is in case of fire and that is you have a easier exit out of the shop if you are in the back of the building. Then that opens up the entire area to L shaped bench area toward the front.

 

[MikeinNorthWales]

Is there a substantial workbench near the lift bay? You may not want to take parts and sub-asssemblies from a car on the lift all the way across the garage to work on a bench. Likewise, do you have a plan for tools at the bench on the right side? The toolboxes are over in the lift bay.

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[johnnyradiant]

I'd be tempted to first put the compressor in a small lean-to or outbuilding. Failing that my second temptation would be to put it in the opposite corner it is in.

I like the idea of moving the man-door to the back part of the shop, perhaps/likely the same wall, in part for the emergency aspect.

If you did the door or the compressor you could also put your motorized tobogan in the front corner where the door is/was and open up the back for more work area.

 

[Ak Jim]

How about adding some windows?

 

[andrewordrew]

Great looking garage - lots of space to play with. Don’t take it for granted and spread out too much (conservative use of space is just as important in a big shop as a small shop, in my opinion). I’ve seen guys sprawl out in big shop and cause more wasted space than anything.

I’d move the shelving to the side wall and move the bench to the back wall. That way the bench can serve both lift bay work and flat stall work.

Having the compressor in a lean-to is a great idea, provided you have a fair climate and ventilate it so as not to kill the compressor.

Do you have another spot for general woodworking tools? Just curious cuz they require even more planning (especially dust management).

How about 220V electrical? Where will those receptacles be located? Be sure you can nest a welding cart somewhere nearby, or at least have access to the outlets where needed.

Looks like a nice shop. I’m envious. Have fun!


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[ZRX61]

I’d move the shelving to the side wall and move the bench to the back wall.

Ditto.

 

[tx71nova]

I actually think the man door should be moved to as close to the back corner of the shop and the main reason is in case of fire and that is you have a easier exit out of the shop if you are in the back of the building. Then that opens up the entire area to L shaped bench area toward the front.

Thats a good idea, the only reason the door is towards the front is because the front of the garage will be flush with the front of the house. So I didnt see a reason to walk to the back of the garage to enter it.

Is there a substantial workbench near the lift bay? You may not want to take parts and sub-asssemblies from a car on the lift all the way across the garage to work on a bench. Likewise, do you have a plan for tools at the bench on the right side? The toolboxes are over in the lift bay.

I was wondering about that, I dont want to be walking back and for a bunch for tools depending on where I am working, My tool box is on wheels but that doesnt always work the best. I might make the right side of the garage more of a storage area or where equipment (drill press, press,ect) to try and keep the tools located in the center of the garage.

I'd be tempted to first put the compressor in a small lean-to or outbuilding. Failing that my second temptation would be to put it in the opposite corner it is in.

I like the idea of moving the man-door to the back part of the shop, perhaps/likely the same wall, in part for the emergency aspect.

If you did the door or the compressor you could also put your motorized tobogan in the front corner where the door is/was and open up the back for more work area.

LOL motorized toboggan
I would love to have the air compressor outside so its alot quiter but in MN outside gets to -20F and I dont want it to freeze. What I think I will do is build a small mezzanine and a small enclosure for it with a vent so it doesnt get so hot in the enclosure.

How about adding some windows?

The program doesnt show it but both garage doors will have windows on the 2nd to the top row. My dad did this in his garage and it lets in alot of light without people being able to see in. Also windows are expensive and its another place for people to break in. I dont live in a rough neighborhood but I dont want to worry about it.

Do you have another spot for general woodworking tools? Just curious cuz they require even more planning (especially dust management).

How about 220V electrical? Where will those receptacles be located? Be sure you can nest a welding cart somewhere nearby, or at least have access to the outlets where needed.

I dont have a spot for woodworking tools since I dont do woodworking, metal/grinding dust is a concern but I was thinking on getting a big curtain on a track like a hospital curtain on steroids to section off the garage so dust/sparks dont go everywhere.

As for 220V I havent laid that out yet but I want at least 1 recepticle on each wall

 

[larry_g]

. I plan on utilizing the height of the walls with shelfs and possibly a mezzanine.

I'll bet there are two hundred threads on this forum about how to add a mezzanine. If your thinking this then plan it in now even if you don't build it the first round. If center support posts are needed then make sure that they have a footing poured in the floor. If it needs structure in the outside framing get it in there now, 10x easier and your ready to go when you want to.

If you look at my build below you can see the rafters and posts installed to hold the second floor. They were installed during the build and the floor and walls installed a year or so later.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ZohmBii]

That's very similar to the way I've built my garage!

It's a 30x50x13 with the doors on the long side, including the man door since it's behind my house. I've also built it with radiant floor heat and a dedicated bay for the 2 post lift on the left hand side.

I went with a 10x10 door on the lift bay and a 16x10 on the larger bay. So the spacing on the front ends up 5' wall, 10' door, 5' wall, 16' door, 5' wall, 3' man door, and 6' wall.

Currently I'm finishing up my utilities (Power & Gas) so that I can get the final inspection done.

 

[Aerospace Eng]

To directly answer your question, I think the lift location makes sense. Just make sure you have enough space around to work and wheel tool carts around.

One thing you may want to consider, although it would add cost, would be to replace the long wall with a single bi-fold door, as on many aircraft hangars. Then you aren't limited to certain spaces to bring vehicles in and out. Want your pickup to move a few feet to the left so you can leave your sled on a trailer in the winter? Done. Need to bring a forklift straight in on the right side of the car to get a pallet off the rack without moving the car? No problem.

A man-door can easily be (and typically is for aircraft hangars) set into the door, freeing up some wall space if you want.

 

[Ilikeike]

Definitely move the compressor outside to a lean-too, 3/4 shed...
Free up valuable space and you don't have to listen to it.
It was one of the best improvements I did to our shop.

 

[Jeffksf]

I would want the lift next to my primary work space and to me that looks like the right side of the garage. I'm leaning towards flipping the doors and lift space.

 

[tx71nova]

I'll bet there are two hundred threads on this forum about how to add a mezzanine. If your thinking this then plan it in now even if you don't build it the first round. If center support posts are needed then make sure that they have a footing poured in the floor. If it needs structure in the outside framing get it in there now, 10x easier and your ready to go when you want to.

If you look at my build below you can see the rafters and posts installed to hold the second floor. They were installed during the build and the floor and walls installed a year or so later.

lg
no neat sig line

Good point , ill look at different mezzanine setups and see which one would work best for me and plan accordingly.

That's very similar to the way I've built my garage!

It's a 30x50x13 with the doors on the long side, including the man door since it's behind my house. I've also built it with radiant floor heat and a dedicated bay for the 2 post lift on the left hand side.

I went with a 10x10 door on the lift bay and a 16x10 on the larger bay. So the spacing on the front ends up 5' wall, 10' door, 5' wall, 16' door, 5' wall, 3' man door, and 6' wall.

Currently I'm finishing up my utilities (Power & Gas) so that I can get the final inspection done.

Nice, Im gonna do a 10x10 for the lift bay and the other door will be 10x20.

To directly answer your question, I think the lift location makes sense. Just make sure you have enough space around to work and wheel tool carts around.

One thing you may want to consider, although it would add cost, would be to replace the long wall with a single bi-fold door, as on many aircraft hangars. Then you aren't limited to certain spaces to bring vehicles in and out. Want your pickup to move a few feet to the left so you can leave your sled on a trailer in the winter? Done. Need to bring a forklift straight in on the right side of the car to get a pallet off the rack without moving the car? No problem.

A man-door can easily be (and typically is for aircraft hangars) set into the door, freeing up some wall space if you want.

Thats a interesting idea but the cost and trying to keep it insulated would be tough/expensive. And most of the ones iv seen online are on the gable end of a building where the loads are less, trying to get a header to support the rafters would be expensive as well

Definitely move the compressor outside to a lean-too, 3/4 shed...
Free up valuable space and you don't have to listen to it.
It was one of the best improvements I did to our shop.

Im already max on footing size and I would have to heat the enclosure the compressor would be in since it gets -20F here in winter. I think the mezzanine idea would get me 90% there for what I want with space and noise

I would want the lift next to my primary work space and to me that looks like the right side of the garage. I'm leaning towards flipping the doors and lift space.

I dont always plan on using the lift, but I always plan on using the open work space as you enter from the end.

 

[logical]

I'd be sure to go high lift with the big double garage door so it is clear if you ever want to add a 4 post in one of those spots. If you have the headroom they are a c by leap way to gain two parking spots without giving up much floorspace. I have a summer car on mine all winter but use it as a storage "shelf" in summer for off season or rarely used stuff.

Can't tell where it's placed exactly but I'd put the 2 post no further in than it has to be (as close to door as practical and not limiting use). Extra space between the lift and back wall will be a lot more useful than extra space between it and the door.

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[4 FN 27]

Looks good.

Can't tell in the model but I would add a Trench Drain under each parking space or run a single parallel to the Garage Doors. MN winters have your vehicles dragging in a lot of snow and road grime as you well know.

 

[Aerospace Eng]

Thats a interesting idea but the cost and trying to keep it insulated would be tough/expensive. And most of the ones iv seen online are on the gable end of a building where the loads are less, trying to get a header to support the rafters would be expensive as well

Hangar doors are rarely on gable ends, as there are frequently multiple bays.

It does add to the structural loads, both due to the weight and due to the fact that with the door up you lose one wall for shear stability. This leads to an increased cost. Whether the utility is worth it is up to you.

I've attached a photo of an older pole-style hangar on the airport with an uninsulated door, but it shows the header/support structure required on a wood structure. This is a Schweiss door, 40' wide, and opens 12' high (bottom of the header truss). The eave is 14' if I recall correctly.

I don't have one handy of the steel structure.

I've also attached a picture of one of my small box hangars with some of my snow equipment in it. It's a 50x41 bay (the whole building is 315'x41'), and has a 14' x 49'6" opening with the door raised.

Because the door is basically a wall, it is easy to insulate. Mine are R-19. It can actually be more energy efficient than a wall with a few garage doors in it, as their R-values are typically lower. It's big, but you only have two hinge lines (top and middle of the door) and it's fairly easy to seal. I have heat pumps for the hangars, and in the winter to keep this bay at 55-60F the total electric bill (lights and heat) was about $200 a month.

 

[penright]

The program doesnt show it but both garage doors will have windows on the 2nd to the top row. My dad did this in his garage and it lets in alot of light without people being able to see in. Also windows are expensive and its another place for people to break in. I dont live in a rough neighborhood but I dont want to worry about it.

The other reason for windows is cross flow ventilation. If you have climate control for summer days then no big deal. Minnesota may not be that big of a deal but in OK, opening windows with our constant fan source (wind), it is like working under a shade tree.

One other wild thought is to consider an "in floor scissor lift" https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35433

If the two-car area is for you daily drivers, then it gives you room to work around the car without the post taking up floor space. Just thinking out loud.

 

[tx71nova]

I'd be sure to go high lift with the big double garage door so it is clear if you ever want to add a 4 post in one of those spots. If you have the headroom they are a c by leap way to gain two parking spots without giving up much floorspace. I have a summer car on mine all winter but use it as a storage "shelf" in summer for off season or rarely used stuff.

Can't tell where it's placed exactly but I'd put the 2 post no further in than it has to be (as close to door as practical and not limiting use). Extra space between the lift and back wall will be a lot more useful than extra space between it and the door.

Both doors will be high lift, they will go up roughly 21" straight up then curve in, also to the bottom of my rafters should be 13' and my lift should only be 12'2".

I dont want the lift to close to the garage door since I dont want 10ft between the front of the car and the back wall where all the tools and benches will be located, thats alot of steps. The lift is currently setup so the biggest truck (crew cab long box diesel) I plan on having on it will fit with 2-3ft minimum to walk around the back.

Looks good.

Can't tell in the model but I would add a Trench Drain under each parking space or run a single parallel to the Garage Doors. MN winters have your vehicles dragging in a lot of snow and road grime as you well know.

I am well awar of the salt/grim winter vehicles bring in haha. I have 2 trench drains, 1 in the center of the lift and one to the spot next to the lift, I dont want to a 3rd one in the far right spot since I want a nice big flat section where I can do suspension and body measurements/fab and not have to worry about the concrete slopping

Hangar doors are rarely on gable ends, as there are frequently multiple bays.

It does add to the structural loads, both due to the weight and due to the fact that with the door up you lose one wall for shear stability. This leads to an increased cost. Whether the utility is worth it is up to you.

I've attached a photo of an older pole-style hangar on the airport with an uninsulated door, but it shows the header/support structure required on a wood structure. This is a Schweiss door, 40' wide, and opens 12' high (bottom of the header truss). The eave is 14' if I recall correctly.

I don't have one handy of the steel structure.

I've also attached a picture of one of my small box hangars with some of my snow equipment in it. It's a 50x41 bay (the whole building is 315'x41'), and has a 14' x 49'6" opening with the door raised.

Because the door is basically a wall, it is easy to insulate. Mine are R-19. It can actually be more energy efficient than a wall with a few garage doors in it, as their R-values are typically lower. It's big, but you only have two hinge lines (top and middle of the door) and it's fairly easy to seal. I have heat pumps for the hangars, and in the winter to keep this bay at 55-60F the total electric bill (lights and heat) was about $200 a month.

Interesting, the garage doors I have picked out have a R-18.5 rating and if there would happen tp be a problem with it there isnt alot of support for those types of doors around here

The other reason for windows is cross flow ventilation. If you have climate control for summer days then no big deal. Minnesota may not be that big of a deal but in OK, opening windows with our constant fan source (wind), it is like working under a shade tree.

One other wild thought is to consider an "in floor scissor lift" https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35433

If the two-car area is for you daily drivers, then it gives you room to work around the car without the post taking up floor space. Just thinking out loud.

A window or 2 would be nice for cross breeze but to have them high enough to keep prying eyes out it would be a pain to open. I can always add them later too if I find the need for them

Iv never been a big fan in floor lift since the big lift pads are in the way of what ever your working on, for some reason it always happens that way haha. The 2 car area isnt for daily drivers, just projects.

I plan on building some sort of wheel holder for the 2 post lift so I can store cars on it.

 

[logical]

Both doors will be high lift, they will go up roughly 21" straight up then curve in, also to the bottom of my rafters should be 13' and my lift should only be 12'2".

I dont want the lift to close to the garage door since I dont want 10ft between the front of the car and the back wall where all the tools and benches will be located, thats alot of steps. The lift is currently setup so the biggest truck (crew cab long box diesel) I plan on having on it will fit with 2-3ft minimum to walk
...

Makes sense, I was guessing the ceiling was much higher.

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[Notgrownup]

Another man door between the rollups. Other than that , it looks pretty good. Plus if the compressor is off the floor that will be great.