Garage Lighting Layout Questions

[breakthestatic@gmail.]

Saw a couple somewhat similar threads on this but did not want to hijack their discussions...

I have a roughly 20x20 two car garage w/ 10ft ceiling (finished) that's mainly used as a laundry area and very light duty workshop. Currently, there's a single fixture w/ two A19 bulbs and I was looking to add more lighting while trying to limit the amount of drywall repair. Originally I was thinking of installing four t8/led fixtures, but found that triac dimming bulbs are very limited and somewhat expensive (to run a low voltage dimming line from the wall switch, I'd need to cut through about 8 joists, not to mention the transition from the wall section to the ceiling).

As an alternative, I thought of using a series of sixteen (4x4) 6" recessed downlights (e.g https://www.cooperlighting.com/global/brands/halo/982091/hlb6-led-6-microedge-direct-mount-downlight) and using the fixture holes for access to drill through the joists as needed for the wiring. I'd still need to make a few extra cuts, but overall it seems less invasive.

Pricing would be comparable between the two options and aesthetically the recessed lighting is nicer. I know that the beam angle is not nearly as good with the downlights, but for my purposes, perhaps that isn't a big deal? As noted above, the garage is primarily used as a laundry area. I sometimes also do car maintenance but have dedicated movable task lighting for that. I also occasionally do *very* basic woodworking (cutting trim, shelving, etc.)

Any thoughts on either approach, or if I should possibly go in another direction?

Also, I had some concerns about fire rating and the recessed lighting since part of the ceiling is below habitable space, so I asked my city inspector about it while he was out doing an inspection for my solar install. He said that barring any installation/electrical problems, the plan itself was fine for the number/size of the openings below the habitable space.

 

[dave*99]

Consider surface mounted conduit to power the lights. There are extension boxes you can mount over the existing ceiling box (that currently has the A19 bulb) and transition to conduit.
EMT can be installed neatly.
Consider shielded LED T8 fixtures to meet aesthetic needs.
Recessed lighting in this application has the issues you mentioned.
Triac dimming can work - provided your dimmer and fixtures/tubes are compatible.
There are wireless remote methods available to provide 0-10V dimming. Research Lutron Vive PowPak products.

 

[mm08822]

I would choose surface-mounted inear fluorescents over recessed lighting.

The initial recessed lighting layout may prove inflexible if you decide to later increase the quantity later on.
The linear fluors could be extended/increased on a row by row basis without swiss-cheesing the sheetrock. Surface mounted fixtures don't compromise the fire rating.

Consider cutting a continuous 6" wide strip in the ceiling along the wall (perpendicular to joists) to run the cables into each joist bay for each row of lights. The sheetrock would be pretty easy as it is one contiguous area.
0-10V dimmable fixtures would allow you to put in a better fixture layout for even lighting levels and you can adjust the lighting output for the times surgery is needed to be performed in the area vs. just general a walk-through, etc.

 

[dave*99]

I used these 6000lm dimmable panels with 0-10V dimming. They can also be set to an output level and color temperature with switches on the driver board. I used the manufacturers lighting calculator to design light levels and layout. I'm very happy with the result. Note that there are many similar looking versions or this panel. Some are 4000lm. I needed 6000lm for my layout.

Lithonia Lighting Contractor Select CPANL 2 ft. x 4 ft. 4000/5000/6000 Lumens White Integrated LED Flat Panel Light CPANL 2X4 ALO6 SWW7 M2 - The Home Depot

The CPANL LED Fully Switchable Flat Panel features an integrated driver that allows CPANL to be suspended, direct surfaced mounted or integrated into a t-grid ceiling. The adjustable lumen output (ALO)

www.homedepot.com

 

[breakthestatic@gmail.]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I didn't really think about conduit at first because the fixtures I was looking to install seemed to only have jbox connections (not sure if they were the same model that @dave*99 noted, but very similar). I also would like color selectable lights because my wife doesn't like neutral/cool lighting for daily usage (laundry, getting stuff from second fridge, etc.) but I prefer it when doing any technical work. I also wanted to keep the triac dimming because I'm using a z-wave smart dimmer to control it and everything is already integrated into my home automation software.

I did just find https://www.acuitybrands.com/produc.../fml4w-wrap/low-profile-wide-housing-led-wrap, which offers color temp selection and is triac dimmable. I don't see any knockouts for connecting via conduit, but I guess I could just drill out the holes manually. I would prefer the look of the flat panels, but haven't come across anything that meets my other requirements.

I guess the other cheapest option would be to just get led-ready tube fixtures and dimmable tubes, but then I lose out on the color switching (unless I want to manually swap out bulbs when working ).

 

[dave*99]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions! I didn't really think about conduit at first because the fixtures I was looking to install seemed to only have jbox connections (not sure if they were the same model that @dave*99 noted, but very similar). I also would like color selectable lights because my wife doesn't like neutral/cool lighting for daily usage (laundry, getting stuff from second fridge, etc.) but I prefer it when doing any technical work. I also wanted to keep the triac dimming because I'm using a z-wave smart dimmer to control it and everything is already integrated into my home automation software.

I did just find https://www.acuitybrands.com/produc.../fml4w-wrap/low-profile-wide-housing-led-wrap, which offers color temp selection and is triac dimmable. I don't see any knockouts for connecting via conduit, but I guess I could just drill out the holes manually. I would prefer the look of the flat panels, but haven't come across anything that meets my other requirements.

I guess the other cheapest option would be to just get led-ready tube fixtures and dimmable tubes, but then I lose out on the color switching (unless I want to manually swap out bulbs when working ).

Look for fixtures that have a knockout on the side or end if you plan to use surface mounted conduit. The fixture you linked has a spec sheet that says connections must be made in a junction box. It's quite likely there is a driver module and a knockout right in the same compartment. The connection should come down from the ceiling.

Given the size of the fixtures, you have opportunity to cut sheetrock, make an imperfect repair and cover any sins with the fixture.

Also, there are likely 0-10V dimmer modules available that are Z-wave compatible.

https://www.amazon.com/Z-Wave-Dimmer-ZEN54-Required-Separately/dp/B0C7J4YMSZ/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I have 0-10V dimming in my shop and triac dimmers elsewhere in my house. My triacs are the latest offering from Leviton and my fixtures are "compatible" The 0-10V system is smooth and works perfectly. The triac stuff flickers, strobes and *****. I've adjusted the modes, set the hi and low limit trimmers etc. Sometimes they work well....sometimes not.

I'm not sure I follow your comment about color switching while working - do you plan to get on a ladder and adjust the switches?

 

[breakthestatic@gmail.]

Yeah, for the color switching my thought was just use a small stool I already keep in the garage to go up and change them - figured it wouldn't be more than a minute to flip them to the desired color output. I'm not tall but can definitely reach the ceiling already when using it.

For the dimmer, I wanted to keep the existing one I have, as it has a lot of programmable features that I use, which *probably* can't be found in most other dimmers, e.g. the dimmer's LED brightness strip can be addressed via automations to change color, brightness, animate, etc. I use it for notifications like when pulling my car into the garage, it flashes green when the car clears the garage door obstruction sensors (a more high-tech hanging tennis ball) or if my kids are inside and the volume goes above a certain threshold, it alerts me so I can go in and see if they're fighting, hurt, etc.. It also has a ton of programmable macros. The 3 buttons (up, down & config) can each be programmed to respond to up to 7 taps (I don't use all 21, but at least 8) to control other smart devices around the garage & house.

I have definitely come across flickering, noise & uneven dimming from some bulbs throughout the house, but the dimmer company maintains a compatibility list and there are some t8 options that have been tested (none of the aforementioned issues), e.g. https://www.homedepot.com/p/toggled...Tube-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-D416-40321-2/308086232. If I go the separate bulb/fixture route I know I'd be giving up the adjustable color temp, but would something like https://www.maxlite.com/products/t8-lamp-ready-fixtures/LSU2XT8USE4806 work? It looks like it has the knockout connections for the conduit, is moderately low-profile and I believe is compatible with the bulbs I linked above.

 

[dave*99]

Yeah, for the color switching my thought was just use a small stool I already keep in the garage to go up and change them - figured it wouldn't be more than a minute to flip them to the desired color output. I'm not tall but can definitely reach the ceiling already when using it.

For the dimmer, I wanted to keep the existing one I have, as it has a lot of programmable features that I use, which *probably* can't be found in most other dimmers, e.g. the dimmer's LED brightness strip can be addressed via automations to change color, brightness, animate, etc. I use it for notifications like when pulling my car into the garage, it flashes green when the car clears the garage door obstruction sensors (a more high-tech hanging tennis ball) or if my kids are inside and the volume goes above a certain threshold, it alerts me so I can go in and see if they're fighting, hurt, etc.. It also has a ton of programmable macros. The 3 buttons (up, down & config) can each be programmed to respond to up to 7 taps (I don't use all 21, but at least 8) to control other smart devices around the garage & house.

I have definitely come across flickering, noise & uneven dimming from some bulbs throughout the house, but the dimmer company maintains a compatibility list and there are some t8 options that have been tested (none of the aforementioned issues), e.g. https://www.homedepot.com/p/toggled...Tube-Light-Bulb-2-Pack-D416-40321-2/308086232. If I go the separate bulb/fixture route I know I'd be giving up the adjustable color temp, but would something like https://www.maxlite.com/products/t8-lamp-ready-fixtures/LSU2XT8USE4806 work? It looks like it has the knockout connections for the conduit, is moderately low-profile and I believe is compatible with the bulbs I linked above.

The fixtures and bulbs you linked are single ended - and they will work together. Just be sure to stay compatible when purchasing replacements in the future.

Also the tubes you linked come with lamp holders - an unnecessary expense if you are buying new fixtures.

 

[cybrdyke]

Use a 0-10V dimming fixture with a Lutron Vive Powpak and Pico switches. No need to run wires thru joists at all. This is the simplest solution. Trust me, dont mess around trying to dim LED tubes on a Triac dimmer. It's a journey of frustration that you wont like.
Good luck,
CD

 

[breakthestatic@gmail.]

Thanks for the dimmer suggestion! I've definitely come across quite a few issues with triac dimming myself (had to return probably a dozen different bulb combos when I first started installing these switches). However, once I started using the compatibility guide provided by the manufacturer, I haven't had any trouble whatsoever. The tubes I linked to earlier were specifically tested and confirmed working with no dimming issues, flickering, noise, etc. so I'm fairly confident I won't have issues. In the event they do cause trouble, I could always add the remote 0-10v dimming module later I think.

 

[dave*99]

Thanks for the dimmer suggestion! I've definitely come across quite a few issues with triac dimming myself (had to return probably a dozen different bulb combos when I first started installing these switches). However, once I started using the compatibility guide provided by the manufacturer, I haven't had any trouble whatsoever. The tubes I linked to earlier were specifically tested and confirmed working with no dimming issues, flickering, noise, etc. so I'm fairly confident I won't have issues. In the event they do cause trouble, I could always add the remote 0-10v dimming module later I think.

Only if you have a fixture that has a driver with a 0-10V dimming input. The diming modules discussed so far provide a 0-10V output to a driver. They do not drive the tube directly.

 

[breakthestatic@gmail.]

I was thinking I could use a zwave dimming module like https://www.z-wave.com/shop-z-wave-smart-home-products/qubino-flush-dimmer-0-10v. My dimmer has a "smart bulb" mode that passes full current through the switch all the time. I could then associate the dimmer w/ the 0-10v module in the first fixture and get 0-10v dimming that way. Is there something I'm still missing or would that generally work?

 

[dave*99]

I was thinking I could use a zwave dimming module like https://www.z-wave.com/shop-z-wave-smart-home-products/qubino-flush-dimmer-0-10v. My dimmer has a "smart bulb" mode that passes full current through the switch all the time. I could then associate the dimmer w/ the 0-10v module in the first fixture and get 0-10v dimming that way. Is there something I'm still missing or would that generally work?

What fixtures/tubes are you considering? A 0-10v input is needed if you ever go that route.

 

[cybrdyke]

You lost me.
If you're going to use those tubes with a triac dimmer, and it doesn't work out well, then you cant use that qubino to make them work on 0-10. You wont have a driver to work with.
I'm trying to say this without being offensive....you're starting off using the wrong technology and then, if it doesn't work, you want to add even more complicated devices to try a fix that ultimately wont work.
Just use 0-10 in the first place and get it right.
My opinion. It's your garage....
Good luck,
CD