Garage Mini Split

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Funny, the ductless mini-split is the standard in the rest of the world. Why not here? Ever been to the Caribbean? That's all you will see in hot, humid climate. Having experienced both the ductless mini-splits and PTACs, I would never, ever put in one of those noisy PTACs. They take up prime space down low where every shop needs it instead of up high out of the way too. A shop is generally a big open space. Move the air around with a ceiling fan and a mini-split should work fine. In the Caribbean, we just open the doors and the bedroom units cool the whole place.

Yeah, it is, where they have AC. Low cost retrofit, but the large volume of refrigerant for the multi-zone systems pose another issue, not yet addressed stateside. so lets say you have several zones. 4 lets say. And lets say one is in an IT room where the computer guy also has a desk. Now, all in, you have all that refrigerant ran thru the building, but you also have an evaporator in an IT closet that is 10x12 with a desk in it. Lets say it gets a leak. If the checkvalves do not hold, and depending on location, that room could be filled with refrigerant, suffocating the occupant.

These systems do not require refrigerant monitors.

We have better solutions for the ways buildings are constructed here. Having 400 condensers hanging off the side of the building does not pass for attractive in the US. Other places? Totally commonplace.

The airflow *****, there are hot and cold spots, it is not what the US market wants.

Keep in mind, "world class" also means third world.

 

[MushCreek]

In the right application, they perform beautifully, and do fill a void. Our house is 1444 square feet, but so tight and well-insulated that the peak A/C load in South Carolina is only 9000 BTU, or 3/4 ton. They don't make central systems that small that I know of. Our Mitsubishi units are very quiet, and can throttle way back when the load is small. With the construction of our house, one single unit can keep the entire house an even temperature as long as the interior doors are kept open, which we do. There are no cold spots or warm spots. The same unit in a leaky old farmhouse would be a disaster, and the homeowner wouldn't be very happy.

We have a 12K unit in the central part of the house, and a 9K in the master suite. We only run one at a time unless it is down near zero outside- a couple nights a year. We have them on timers so the 12K runs during the day, and the 9k runs at night during A/C season. They are the quietest heat pumps I've ever heard, both inside and out. I challenge visitors to see if they can hear it running! Don't bash the entire technology just because people don't use them right.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

In the right application, they perform beautifully, and do fill a void. Our house is 1444 square feet, but so tight and well-insulated that the peak A/C load in South Carolina is only 9000 BTU, or 3/4 ton. They don't make central systems that small that I know of. Our Mitsubishi units are very quiet, and can throttle way back when the load is small. With the construction of our house, one single unit can keep the entire house an even temperature as long as the interior doors are kept open, which we do. There are no cold spots or warm spots. The same unit in a leaky old farmhouse would be a disaster, and the homeowner wouldn't be very happy.

We have a 12K unit in the central part of the house, and a 9K in the master suite. We only run one at a time unless it is down near zero outside- a couple nights a year. We have them on timers so the 12K runs during the day, and the 9k runs at night during A/C season. They are the quietest heat pumps I've ever heard, both inside and out. I challenge visitors to see if they can hear it running! Don't bash the entire technology just because people don't use them right.

That is funny. Not bashing at all there buddy, easy does it. They do fill a hole, but a void? Nope, sorry. There is almost always a better way to go than a Mini-split. I have seen them cobbed into many places trying, almost always, to save money. They are fairly cost effective, but the vast majority are misapplied. I promise you, I am not just blowing steam, I work for one of the "BIG 3" manufacturers, and we have our own line of mini-splits (re-branded) and VRF as well. We have sold a few. Very few. The market isn't there in the US. Its an interesting product until you see what all it takes it to work "OK".

If you are happy with yours, I am glad, that is awesome. Sometimes they are the easiest solution. sometimes the cheapest. Very seldom the best overall.

 

[AZpilot]

That is funny. Not bashing at all there buddy, easy does it. They do fill a hole, but a void? Nope, sorry. There is almost always a better way to go than a Mini-split. I have seen them cobbed into many places trying, almost always, to save money. They are fairly cost effective, but the vast majority are misapplied. I promise you, I am not just blowing steam, I work for one of the "BIG 3" manufacturers, and we have our own line of mini-splits (re-branded) and VRF as well. We have sold a few. Very few. The market isn't there in the US. Its an interesting product until you see what all it takes it to work "OK".

If you are happy with yours, I am glad, that is awesome. Sometimes they are the easiest solution. sometimes the cheapest. Very seldom the best overall.

I have asked a few times and never really had it answered. What is best in my garage in Arizona with limited space and budget. The big three want big money to get me what I want. So where do you go from there?

 

[Ohmthis]

I have asked a few times and never really had it answered. What is best in my garage in Arizona with limited space and budget. The big three want big money to get me what I want. So where do you go from there?

I've been in the HVAC industry for a good while too (since 1993). Things have evolved quite rapidly over the last 10 years or so. The demand for more efficient equipment has driven most of these changes. Not every situation has the same "best" solution. You have given us your requirements and asked for help. I believe that a mini split is exactly what would make you happy. They are small (not space hogs), perform well when installed correctly, efficient (depends on make and model), are easily installed without major retrofits, and can be very affordable (again make and model). My only draw back with them in a garage is the filtering. They need to be cleaned a lot (as much as weekly). Again insulation will help tremendously which ever route you choose. Don't let budget fully dictate which unit you buy. Factor in installation costs, energy costs, durability, and ease of use. I have put in several PTAC units and they all seem to **** out at or around 5 years. They are in the $700-$900 range. Replace two and you have paid for a decent mini split. There's my take on your situation. Do your research on what ever you decide. Good luck!

 

[AZpilot]

Ohmthis,

Thanks! I did research. I have all of my walls and doors insulated with high R value insulation. I researched units and the LG fit in with my needs and budget. Will have a pro finish it up. Should be here this week. Just get a little concerned when one member posts that mini splits are all used wrong and shouldn't even exist in the USA.

 

[Ohmthis]

Some people don't like change (I'm not insinuating anything, just a broad statement). There were grumblings when 410a first came on the scene. There were false claims all over the place and it has turned out to be a good refrigerant. You'll enjoy the unit, just make it a habit to clean the filters weekly until you know how dirty they get.

 

[AZpilot]

Some people don't like change (I'm not insinuating anything, just a broad statement). There were grumblings when 410a first came on the scene. There were false claims all over the place and it has turned out to be a good refrigerant. You'll enjoy the unit, just make it a habit to clean the filters weekly until you know how dirty they get.

Will do on the filter. Living in Arizona frequent filter cleanings are a weekly maintenance task currently, so no problem there.

 

[jobo1004]

My experience in HVAC is more on the commercial side, but until this thread I've never heard anyone extol the virtues of window units and PTACs. They're basically the cheapest POS the industry makes.

 

[Ohmthis]

They are definitely throw away appliances anymore. No service fittings and cheap cost makes them cost prohibited to repair.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Will do on the filter. Living in Arizona frequent filter cleanings are a weekly maintenance task currently, so no problem there.

I wouldn't worry about it. I just ordered a mini-split the other day for my garage Gilbert. One of my good friends works for the biggest distributor in the country, so he was able to get me a ridiculous deal on a system. The deal was so good that he bought one for his own garage and so did the guy that's installing my system......so that tells you what the Arizona professionals think. Also, my friend has said many times that his next house will be nothing but mini-splits.

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

My experience in HVAC is more on the commercial side, but until this thread I've never heard anyone extol the virtues of window units and PTACs. They're basically the cheapest POS the industry makes.

My experience is 100% commercial. Overhauling centrifugal chillers, screw machine work, Large commercial RTUs and custom air handlers. I am not exactly "extolling their virtues". Here is what I am driving at, its a bit like some other things on this site, there seems to be "go- to" solutions here that I don't think are the best in every case, or even in a lot of cases. Mini-splits would not be my "go-to". I am very forward thinking, and enjoy new technology, but lets be honest, you are about as likely to change a compressor in a mini-split as you are in a PTAC. Some will. Most won't. PTACs would not be my "go- to" either for a garage. Most shops (non- commercial) I would go a standard split. In a commercial or large home shop, I like Convertible package units (RTU) set outside and ducted in.

Window units have their place too. Again, not my go-to.

Sorry if I confuzzeled anyone, not my intent.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I think mini splits are so popular on this site because a lot of us can't run ducting for various reason, nor do we want to put a hole in our walls for a window unit or PTAC. My HOA would have an absolute **** if I stuck a window unit or PTAC on the side of my garage. Also, if I decide to move someday I can pull the mini split out and patch the 4" hole in my wall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a mini split is far more efficient than a window unit or a PTAC. A quality mini-split should be serviceable far into the future (Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, etc.).

 

[justinjoyal]

Am I reading right ? Someone suggesting a PTAC instead of a mini-split ?

Well that surely is a first for me...

 

[Big Daddy Chop Shop]

Thick headed bunch here aren't you? Perhaps reading comprehension is not all that important. Or perhaps I am just in the wrong place. Never have I ever seen a group so dedicated to one way of doing things. T8 shop lights, mini-splits and pole barns. Well, you can't fight city hall.

 

[SALIV8]

Huh?

t8's and pole barns are not good either, now??

 

[Ohmthis]

Thick headed bunch here aren't you? Perhaps reading comprehension is not all that important. Or perhaps I am just in the wrong place. Never have I ever seen a group so dedicated to one way of doing things. T8 shop lights, mini-splits and pole barns. Well, you can't fight city hall.

Don't take offense! Once a solid idea/plan is descussed it sticks around pretty good. I do applaud you for being open minded enough to give several viable options Hang around and give more of the experience you have.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

My experience in HVAC is more on the commercial side, but until this thread I've never heard anyone extol the virtues of window units and PTACs. They're basically the cheapest POS the industry makes.

A PTAC big enough to heat/cool a good sized garage will cost almost the same as a standard split or ductless mini split and be nowhere near as efficient or quiet.

They are the right unit for the right application. A garage isn't it...

Tommy

 

[justinjoyal]

A PTAC big enough to heat/cool a good sized garage will cost almost the same as a standard split or ductless mini split and be nowhere near as efficient or quiet.

Exactly. Why would anyone bother ?!?

 

[AZpilot]

So far not so good. Ingram air and water said the unit was in stock. Now it is not. It has not shipped yet.


1981 Cherokee Chief

 

[chrispyny]

Been doing HVAC for a few years now (just shy of 2 decades) and I would NOT recommend mini-splits. If you want ductless in this size go with a PTAC (hotel room unit). They are basically disposable, less costly than a mini- split, can be heat pump or A/C, with or without electric heat.

Mini splits make zero sense the way we try to use them in the US, its a different story in other countries. The parts suppliers are ever- changing, the items go obsolete very quickly, and they are not, generally speaking, great quality, or backed well.

I would Echo Magicrat, go window shaker, PTAC, or go all out. The other option (mainly for larger shops) would be a packaged convertible unit. The Mini-split fills a void in the business that isn't really there.

First, edited to add, i sincerely appreciate your opinion.

I have to disaggree with your statement about mini splits not making sense. I agree they are not for everyone but they are PERFECT for my house.
I have a 1400sqft raised ranch. First floor is a 2 gar garage on the right, and my den with fireplace, and a half bath on the left. Upstairs is my dining room/living room and kitchen on the left, and three bedrooms and a full bath on the right.

I have been going thru the house, turning it from 1971 to 2016 over the last 4 years since i bought it. It has not water baseboard with a ng boiler in the garage for heat, and i burn a lot of wood in the winter, as i'm a homesteader and love burning wood, tending my veggie garden, and doing man things all year long.

I have NO room for any ducting, or any room for any kind of conditioning equipment in the house. In my case, i already have a two step plan for mini splits in my house, as i am SICK of my window shakers. SICK of the noise, SICK of the electric bill, SICK AND TIRED of installing, and removing windows every season.

Step 1. I plan on installing a 2 zone split on the left side of the house. Comdenser on a concrete pad, a small wall mount 9k btu unit downstairs for the den and bathroom, and a bigger wall mount 18-24k unit upstairs to cool the living/dining room, and kitchen.

Step 2. Once i recover from the costs of step one, step two is installing a three zone condenser on a wall mount on the right side of the house. Zones will be 7k btus for each of the three bedrooms.
This will leave me with all rooms in the house but the garage conditioned.

It will not be cheap, but i will do the install myself, and an aquiantance who does hvac will turn it up for me.

It's the only feasable option for me other than window shakers. It will be pricey but will pay off in the end.

 

[Gila Monster]

I have asked a few times and never really had it answered. What is best in my garage in Arizona with limited space and budget. The big three want big money to get me what I want. So where do you go from there?

I also live in Az, and just another option you may want to look into is a swamp cooler, especially if budget is an issue.

I have a friend with one in his garage mounted through the wall where he does a lot of work with a side business, and I'm impressed with the performance. It also costs only pennies a day to operate.

There's drawbacks also, but I personally would look at that option first.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

I also live in Az, and just another option you may want to look into is a swamp cooler, especially if budget is an issue.

I have a friend with one in his garage mounted through the wall where he does a lot of work with a side business, and I'm impressed with the performance. It also costs only pennies a day to operate.

There's drawbacks also, but I personally would look at that option first.

Swamps don't work too well during monsoon season and they will rust everything in the garage. They are cheap, but a pain in the ****.

 

[AZpilot]

Having lived in Arizona as long as I have, swamp coolers blow up my allergies and rust my tools. Standard AC was my only choice. The budget comes in where I cannot pay an AC and heating company to purchase from and install. My first, second and third quotes were all above 5 grand.

 

[Gila Monster]

Swamps don't work too well during monsoon season and they will rust everything in the garage. They are cheap, but a pain in the ****.

Eh, I think the rust issue is over stated. If you adequately ventilate it it's fine. Not a speck of rust on any of his tools or equipment fwiw.

Many shops use evaporative cooling, and it's not like technicians are getting gangrene.


It's true during Monsoon they won't work well, but it's a few weeks a year.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Eh, I think the rust issue is over stated. If you adequately ventilate it it's fine. Not a speck of rust on any of his tools or equipment fwiw.

Many shops use evaporative cooling, and it's not like technicians are getting gangrene.


It's true during Monsoon they won't work well, but it's a few weeks a year.

It depends on what you are doing. When working with bare metals or machine tools it gets ugly. Hand tools typically aren't the problem.

FWIW, I grew up in Phoenix in a house with a swamp cooler, so I'm not new to them.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

Unless you're either willing to DIY, I don't see a mini split or conventional AC done by a pro getting much under $5k (unless you have a hook up).

A large window unit would probably be the best compromise. Living in AZ, I will say though getting it cold when it's 110+ in a garage during the summer takes a while and can really run up a bill if you try to keep it conditioned year round.

Evaporative coolers do a good job bringing down the temp quickly in a hot garage and costs almost nothing to run and are really cheap to install, but if you have allergy issues, that might be a deal breaker. I think rust issues are overblown.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

You guys that keep saying that rust issues are "overblown" haven't done metal fabrication around a swamp cooler. It all depends on what you're doing; I'm not going to work on my race car or rifles just tocoat everything in WD40 when I'm done to prevent flash rusting. If you're just working on lawn mowers then a swamp cooler is great. My welders don't do to hot when a swamp cooler is blowing away my shielding gas. My last garage had a swamp and so did my friend's shop; my new garage is getting a mini split.

Also, you can buy mini splits for $1,500, install it yourself per the included instructions, then pay somebody to charge it. That's what I'm doing.

 

[AZpilot]

Also, you can buy mini splits for $1,500, install it yourself per the included instructions, then pay somebody to charge it. That's what I'm doing.

Ding, ding, ding! Winner.

 

[Gila Monster]

You guys that keep saying that rust issues are "overblown" haven't done metal fabrication around a swamp cooler. .

Swamps don't work too well during monsoon season and they will rust everything in the garage. They are cheap, but a pain in the ****.

Um, you're the one saying EVERYTHING is going to rust in the garage if you use a swamp cooler.

So yeah, you're way overblowing the problem.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

My bad......enjoy sweating your balls off with your swamp cooler come July.

 

[Gila Monster]

Also, you can buy mini splits for $1,500, install it yourself per the included instructions, then pay somebody to charge it. That's what I'm doing.
Ding, ding, ding! Winner.

Ding, ding, ding! Winner.

Then install it yourself, what are you complaining about?

You're saying no one here will give you an answer about what to do about the high price of quotes for installing a garage AC and that you can't afford it.

I have asked a few times and never really had it answered. What is best in my garage in Arizona with limited space and budget. The big three want big money to get me what I want. So where do you go from there?

 

[cwii]

I have to chime in with a part in this from El Paso. My swamp is on the roof of my shop. Drag out the 32 ft ladder, Every year at least new pads probably a pump, leaks, the roof looks bad. Ever drive around and look at alot of homes with poorly maintained coolers, even the newer roofs look bad..
This is my last year with the cooler this fall its out and the split is in. As of now my research is taking me towards the Mr Cool.
Chuck

 

[justinjoyal]

Unless you're either willing to DIY, I don't see a mini split or conventional AC done by a pro getting much under $5k (unless you have a hook up).

5k$ ?

I don't know what area you're in or who you deal with but that's non-sense!

Around here 2500-3000$ (CDN) gets you a good quality 12k btu unit with a 10-yr warranty!

 

[AZpilot]

Also, you can buy mini splits for $1,500, install it yourself per the included instructions, then pay somebody to charge it. That's what I'm doing.
Ding, ding, ding! Winner.





Then install it yourself, what are you complaining about?

You're saying no one here will give you an answer about what to do about the high price of quotes for installing a garage AC and that you can't afford it.

There is a previous time and an after to my question. It has now been answered a long time ago. I am not complaining.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

5k$ ?

I don't know what area you're in or who you deal with but that's non-sense!

Around here 2500-3000$ (CDN) gets you a good quality 12k btu unit with a 10-yr warranty!

I said unless you install it yourself, most places would try and charge around $5k out the door for everything, parts and labor.

Not the price for the unit itself.

I think it's an extreme markup for many of the mini split units, but that's been my experience when getting quotes. Fortunately I have a friend that does HVAC for a living.

 

[justinjoyal]

I said unless you install it yourself, most places would try and charge around $5k out the door for everything, parts and labor.



Not the price for the unit itself.



I think it's an extreme markup for many of the mini split units, but that's been my experience when getting quotes. Fortunately I have a friend that does HVAC for a living.

I am talking labor included. Turn key type of deal, not DIY!

5k is ridiculous, considering a standard installation.

 

[PoorOwner]

Maybe you can give the name of the installer so we can fly him from Canada and pay him in USD $2500. Lol

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

I am talking labor included. Turn key type of deal, not DIY!

5k is ridiculous, considering a standard installation.

Your guy is working for peanuts.
Glad you found a hook up, but that's not typical.

Most pros around here don't install no name Chinese mini splits and then stand behind them for 10 years. That sounds more like a "handy man" type deal.

I knew the economy was getting bad in Canada, but I didn't know people were that desperate for work

 

[justinjoyal]

Your guy is working for peanuts.

Glad you found a hook up, but that's not typical.



Most pros around here don't install no name Chinese mini splits and then stand behind them for 10 years. That sounds more like a "handy man" type deal.



I knew the economy was getting bad in Canada, but I didn't know people were that desperate for work

You know what, I am the guy.

And believe me, I'm not desperate at all and my prices are at par with the competition.

I would feel like one hell of a crook if I sold my mini-splits for 5k... Even the high end ones!