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Garage Not Air Sealed..

CraigStu

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This sounds to me like a really bad situation. To me it is completely unacceptable. I am hopeful that the county(?) building office will be able to help. I'd also try to figure out how to get the county health department involved. The company that actually constructed the build is going to put off doing anything for as long as they can. They did the build, pocketed the profit, and now anything they are forced to do is a pure expense. I suspect there was some really shoddy work done and am somewhat worried that it passed all the construction inspections done by the county as it was built. So will there be a problem w/ them if it turns out some shoddy work wasn't noticed or purposely overlooked? I hope not but...We had our home built 2.5 yrs ago in southern Va and the final thing the county did before giving the occupancy permit was to do a vacuum test on the house. If the house is not sealed properly it will be fixed before the permit is issued. I wonder if there is a problem w/ the HVAC system. It should pull air out of the living area, run though the heat/cool system and be pushed back into the living area. Just a big loop of air moving through living area, ducts and the HVAC unit. There really shouldn't be any reason that it should create the vacuum that is sucking the odor from the garage into the house. Although the door should be sealed as built we know that isn't always perfect. So an experiment that might be worth trying would be to seal that garage door opening w/ masking tape on the garage side. Use 2 inch wide tape and don't forget to tape across the floor to the door also. It would be nice to seal that kitchen cabinet too but w/o actually being there I am not sure how to go about that. Best wishes t you.
 
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Wrench97

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I'm confused about the air intake comment. Sealing the ingress under the wall will take $5 and 5 minutes, but wherever that air intake is, that is not going away. My wife ******* about humidity and also opens the windows. Not much I can do except go to work and earn unlimited money so that she can run heat, a/c, humidier, dehumidifier all at the same time with the windows open.
Our wives are related?
 

65ranchero

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Just a small story: In my other house the A/C system was replaced and the evap. unit sat in the attic , I just happened to be up there to look at some thing and I found that the attic was not as hot as it usually is.
What I found was that the main trunk line was not attached all the way to the evap. outlet and leaking copious amounts of conditioned air into the attic space.
So this could be part of your problem, it happens!
What you have is a potential health issue, maybe get the local or county health dept. involved.
 

BillK

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From the sound of it what you really need to be concentrating on is the source of the smell itself. No building will be perfectly sealed. You said:

"it literally takes your breath away. It smells like salt/urine/mildew all mixed together and it's not a whiff of a smell it's just so thick in the air it's disgusting"

If it is as bad as you are describing it then I would call your health department. Have you asked any other residents if they are having the same issue ?
 

mikepelchy

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Is there a floor drain or any other type of plumbing in the garage that would have a drain? The drain would have a p-trap and the water in the p-trap would evaporate over time if there is little to no usage and you could been smelling sewage gases. If you do have a drain, you can just dump water down it and then I've read that pouring a little cooking oil while help keep the water from evaporating so fast
 
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krn1188

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This sounds to me like a really bad situation. To me it is completely unacceptable. I am hopeful that the county(?) building office will be able to help. I'd also try to figure out how to get the county health department involved. The company that actually constructed the build is going to put off doing anything for as long as they can. They did the build, pocketed the profit, and now anything they are forced to do is a pure expense. I suspect there was some really shoddy work done and am somewhat worried that it passed all the construction inspections done by the county as it was built. So will there be a problem w/ them if it turns out some shoddy work wasn't noticed or purposely overlooked? I hope not but...We had our home built 2.5 yrs ago in southern Va and the final thing the county did before giving the occupancy permit was to do a vacuum test on the house. If the house is not sealed properly it will be fixed before the permit is issued. I wonder if there is a problem w/ the HVAC system. It should pull air out of the living area, run though the heat/cool system and be pushed back into the living area. Just a big loop of air moving through living area, ducts and the HVAC unit. There really shouldn't be any reason that it should create the vacuum that is sucking the odor from the garage into the house. Although the door should be sealed as built we know that isn't always perfect. So an experiment that might be worth trying would be to seal that garage door opening w/ masking tape on the garage side. Use 2 inch wide tape and don't forget to tape across the floor to the door also. It would be nice to seal that kitchen cabinet too but w/o actually being there I am not sure how to go about that. Best wishes t you.
I ended up doing that last night and it helped a lot with the odor coming from the garage under the door - but the smell coming through the cabinet still remains. I can’t figure out what is causing the odor - it’s so frustrating.
 
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krn1188

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Here's a thought.... Use this as an excuse to get out of you rental agreement and move.
I will move if it comes to it. We have had a really bad experience this past year so I was trying to avoid it. We moved once before this to a townhome in a “luxury” complex in August. That is what started this entire nightmare. We had to leave the majority of our stuff stored in the garage while we looked for a place to move out to from the first week or two. The neighbors cooked multiple times a day really strong food and it came into our apartment in clouds of smoke. There were bugs. It was horrifying. I thought this apartment would be fine since it was new and it seemed fine at first. We have no neighbor issues.
 

mikepelchy

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Also, maybe there is some plumbing in the wall for the sewer that has failed and is allowing sewage gases into the wall and eventually into the garage and house.
 
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krn1188

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Is there a floor drain or any other type of plumbing in the garage that would have a drain? The drain would have a p-trap and the water in the p-trap would evaporate over time if there is little to no usage and you could been smelling sewage gases. If you do have a drain, you can just dump water down it and then I've read that pouring a little cooking oil while help keep the water from evaporating so fast
Nothing I can see - all I see is drywall and concrete really :/.
 
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krn1188

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From the sound of it what you really need to be concentrating on is the source of the smell itself. No building will be perfectly sealed. You said:

"it literally takes your breath away. It smells like salt/urine/mildew all mixed together and it's not a whiff of a smell it's just so thick in the air it's disgusting"

If it is as bad as you are describing it then I would call your health department. Have you asked any other residents if they are having the same issue ?
I didn’t think about calling them, but that’s a good idea. I do have a call into someone who specializes in odor detection but just waiting.
 
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krn1188

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You just moved in recently so you may have items in cardboard boxes still? Get rid of any stored cardboard boxes. In humid places the chemicals in cardboard can produce bad musty 'horsebarn' like smells just like you described.
We moved in, in October and we had some things out there for 3 months maybe as we were going through things. We had someone come after maybe a month and a half to remove some bigger furniture pieces we weren’t going to use - bookshelves, a chair.

Now everything is gone besides a few bikes, a stroller, two metal shelves with some tools and one furniture box that’s been waiting to be picked up from the shipper. I think there’s also a Christmas tree we kept on the porch and two winter wreaths.

Is it possible the odor is in the concrete from the boxes sitting there? I noticed a lot of my neighbors still have stuff piled high in their garages so I can’t imagine they are experiencing this type of thing.
 
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krn1188

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Remember document everything! Cost incurred, time, who you talked to, what was done and so on.
It will help your case if they want to keep your deposit and such.
Thank you, I will do that. I wish I could get somewhere but so far it’s just been spinning my wheels so to speak. Hopefully this week something will start moving along.
 
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krn1188

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Well - unrelated to the garage in the upstairs hallway - the ceiling ac vent has a brown ring around it. Unsure what it is, didn't see a leak, but it's something visual I guess.
 

jbtvt

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Where in New England are you? I drive back and forth from NH to NYC most weeks, if you're along the route I'd be willing to check it out. Almost 20 years in commercial and residential construction. Curious how bad this could be on a new building. If it is as bad as you describe my bet would be on a dead animal as someone else mentioned. I only made the mistake of using rat poison once, for a reason...
 

PassnThru

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The neighbors cooked multiple times a day really strong food and it came into our apartment in clouds of smoke.
Do you literally mean that their cooking caused clouds of smoke in your apartment? It is what you said and I just want to get a reference point on that.
 
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krn1188

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Do you literally mean that their cooking caused clouds of smoke in your apartment? It is what you said and I just want to get a reference point on that.

There was not smoke exactly, but when they would cook there would be a thick haze throughout the entire apartment. Our smoke alarms never went off or anything. We ended up figuring out that it was coming through the shared wall somehow, but it was the absolute worst in the downstairs 1/2 bath there. There was a thing in the ceiling - some type of venting in the 1/2 bath with the laundry room and when we opened it, it was the worst there.

It was so strong and so bad, it would come around the plumbing in all bathrooms/tubs/showers. I'd go to take a shower, or bath my child and it was like he was bathing in whatever they were cooking. They cooked very fragrant food multiple times a day, so it wasn't really livable and the property manager there just sent out HVAC - they said it was a "pressure" situation and we were told it was "normal" to smell your neighbors cooking time to time. On top of that, we were told it was cleaned and sanitized before we moved in - the entire place was carpet besides the kitchen/baths and I was picking up buckets of black dirt in my vacuum no matter how many times I went over it.

Then, there were bugs. TONS and tons of bugs... it was like we were living in an abandoned storage facility over a restaurant - not a "luxury townhouse". We had the movers leave everything in the garage and we were going to move it in ourselves after a few days because of the pandemic and it seemed the safest way to handle it. We never were able to move the majority of our things in because it was so disgusting - and we left them outside in the garage which my husband said would be totally fine for a few months.

At the end of the day, it took us 3 months to find this place and move, which was new and everything around us was still being built. It's a beautiful apartment - I never hear or smell my neighbors. There is way less carpet. But, the freezing cold air blowing out of every floorboard all winter and the smell was really hard to manage.

I assumed that maybe the odor in the apartment was that - the smell of that stuff we were getting rid of. But everything has been gone forever, except for the smell and now this weird urine smell that wasn't there to begin with. On top of it, I'm sick and sneezing everyday since the air has been turned on and I'm not sure if it's a mold issue or a pest issue even though I've seen no evidence of anything. We just have a disgusting odor, allergies for me and my toddler and now this stain around the hallway upstairs AC vent.

I'm at a total loss here. They're supposed to be in touch tomorrow but this has been a few week process of the same story, so I am planning to call the building inspector just to cover my bases. I'm wondering if because air is being drawn in through the garage and leaking in, if mold spores got into the ductwork and when the AC turned on, not it's turned into mold I can't see. That, with the humidity makes the most sense to me - but at this point I have no idea. The majority of our being sick started when the air was running everyday though and the humidity got high.

It has been a rough, rough year. We had lived in the same apartment for 5 years prior to these two moves and didn't want to move, but we had college students move in that stayed up yelling and screaming until 6 am everyday and it couldn't be resolved through management. Then the pandemic and lockdown happened and it was so, so awful. We could hear EVERY word of their conversation all day long and then screaming and doors slamming all night with a little tiny baby. If we have to move from this place, I don't even know where to look. I assumed new was the way to go, but now I'm unsure.
 
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krn1188

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Where in New England are you? I drive back and forth from NH to NYC most weeks, if you're along the route I'd be willing to check it out. Almost 20 years in commercial and residential construction. Curious how bad this could be on a new building. If it is as bad as you describe my bet would be on a dead animal as someone else mentioned. I only made the mistake of using rat poison once, for a reason...
I am a bit outside of the Boston area. I have some photos of what the garage looks like in some places if that helps. I showed the management and one construction person said it was wrong and the other said it was fine because it was sealed on the inside. But I can see the framing and a gap, so I'm not sure - but I'm not knowledgable on home building, so maybe what they're saying is correct. I can't tell if anyone else is having any issues. It all "looks" really nice besides a lot of big giant cracks from settling.
 
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BillK

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Well - unrelated to the garage in the upstairs hallway - the ceiling ac vent has a brown ring around it. Unsure what it is, didn't see a leak, but it's something visual I guess.
That sounds like something is being drawn through the ducts. Does the brown ring wash off easily ? Sounds like what you see in houses where smokers have lived for 30 years.
 
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Yarz

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Tarentum PA
Thank you! I will try your suggestion with the window. They’re definitely automatic and turn on when they sense humidity. There is a switch to turn them on and off, but if they are activated by the humidity in the room - it won’t allow me to turn it off. All three are going non stop right now. The only one I can actually turn off is the one over the stove. Even now the humidity has dropped outside and inside pretty drastically and those fans are still going strong. I asked the contractor if I could somehow have them turned off Bc I also read it’s a fire hazard for them to run 24/7 and he sort of laughed it off.
If you truly believe the fans running 24/7 may be pulling the odor in, turn off the breaker they're on.

Sure, they may be on the same one as the bathroom lights, or something similar, but that shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience for a few hours (or a day) compared to what you've already got...
 
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krn1188

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Sure - it’s in our upstairs hallway. We had the dehumidifier running underneath that area for a while so I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or it was a coincidence. It had been raining, but I didn’t see any water leaking.

Sorry about the white blob, I was trying to zoom and ended up drawing on the image 🙄. There’s like a little orange looking box up inside under there though whatever that might be.
 

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krn1188

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If you truly believe the fans running 24/7 may be pulling the odor in, turn off the breaker they're on.

Sure, they may be on the same one as the bathroom lights, or something similar, but that shouldn't be too much of an inconvenience for a few hours (or a day) compared to what you've already got...
I can give it a shot. I think it’s mainly the return above the kitchen door - whatever that smell is its getting around the seals on the side and underneath and just going up and through. But maybe those fans running all the time is also pulling it in. They are running full speed 24/7. I have a 22 pint dehumidifier in my toddlers room and it can’t even keep the humidity below 60 the majority of the time. I have one in the garage and one in here but the entire place is so humid 70 on average it seems. Do I need large capacity dehumidifiers for every room?
 
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krn1188

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That sounds like something is being drawn through the ducts. Does the brown ring wash off easily ? Sounds like what you see in houses where smokers have lived for 30 years.
I actually haven’t tried to clean it or mess with it yet. I was going to go grab a chair and unscrew it and see if I could see anything. Not sure what I’m looking for - but still. It definitely wasn’t there a few days ago :/.
 

BillK

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The brown stain looks like water damage to me. If it was me I would take the grate off and take a look but since you are renting I'm not sure if you should mess with it at this point. I bet the ceiling drywall is still wet from whatever leaked there.
 

65ranchero

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Do you know if each apartment have it's own HVAC unit?
I would at least take that vent grill off using the 2 Philips screws or at least loosen them enough to drop the grill down and take a look inside and to see if it has flex ducting or metal.
 

Wrench97

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Looks like condensate from the A/C duct, I wonder if it's uninsulated metal, or the pan is not draining and blowing water throughout the system?
 
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krn1188

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Do you know if each apartment have it's own HVAC unit?
I would at least take that vent grill off using the 2 Philips screws or at least loosen them enough to drop the grill down and take a look inside and to see if it has flex ducting or metal.
My husband did pop off the vent in the ceiling and he said there was some metal tape and he went to peel it back a little to see if he could see around it but it was too dark and some water started to come out so he just pressed it back down and screwed it back in. Not sure if he saw what kind of duct it was - he said it was a shiny metal.
 
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krn1188

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Looks like condensate from the A/C duct, I wonder if it's uninsulated metal, or the pan is not draining and blowing water throughout the system?
That’s what I was wondering also. They’re sending serv pro out apparently and are assuming it’s a ceiling leak. I requested them to send Hvac as I’m thinking that’s more the correct person but they don’t agree. I’m super frustrated.
 
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krn1188

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Do you know if each apartment have it's own HVAC unit?
I would at least take that vent grill off using the 2 Philips screws or at least loosen them enough to drop the grill down and take a look inside and to see if it has flex ducting or metal.
Yea they are all separate - sorry missed that.
 

65ranchero

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OK, it looks like you are starting to get some where, but it still bothers me why building maintenance is no poking his head up into the vent area and shine a flash light in there.
 
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krn1188

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OK, it looks like you are starting to get some where, but it still bothers me why building maintenance is no poking his head up into the vent area and shine a flash light in there.
I think it’s partly Bc I requested them to have some sort of plan coming in because we are still being really precautious about the virus. I have a young, unvaccinated child and so having a lot of traffic in my apartment is not the smartest. We are still majority isolated at this point and do contactless everything.

So honestly I am really fearful of lots of people in here for extended time frames. I’ve seen most people not wearing masks or shoe coverings in other apartments and it’s very stressful. When I talked to the property manager I politely requested to be able to have some sort of plan to address the issues before just having tons of people coming through. I think they just don’t want to accommodate that - so they’re pushing me off.

Now, I told maintenance about this vent on Monday. I sent the PM a picture and spoke with her tuesday and now all of a sudden it’s an emergency that they “have” to come at 830 am tomorrow. It hasn’t been an emergency all along when my humidity was 80 percent some days or that my floors were sweating and all my stuff was wet. It wasn’t an issue that I can smell rancid odors wafting throughout - but now it’s an “emergency”.

Sorry to complain. My toddler just started coming down with something and I’m not comfortable having anyone come tomorrow until I see how he’s feeling. I think they could wait a day considering it’s been ongoing and where they are working is right next to his bedroom.
 

65ranchero

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While I do understand your dilemma and health of your child

You have to also realize that that maintenance and HVAC have to coordinate and look at the issue together and come up with a "plan" so it also seems to be a case of some resistance to allow access.
If in fact there is moisture leaking you better plan on being out of there while they inspect / repair.
Is there anyway that you could temporarily relocate to a relatives house or have the rental company pay for a hotel?
Plus, Servpro as they advertise should decontamination after the fact
 
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kd3pc

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Sure - it’s in our upstairs hallway. We had the dehumidifier running underneath that area for a while so I don’t know if that had anything to do with it or it was a coincidence. It had been raining, but I didn’t see any water leaking.

Sorry about the white blob, I was trying to zoom and ended up drawing on the image 🙄. There’s like a little orange looking box up inside under there though whatever that might be.
I had an HVAC vent similar to this one in my half bath. Two days after having the satellite installed and cables configured by DISH, this vent started to flow water. Like gallons over three hours. We, too, had just moved in, and apparently the dish fellow stepped on the "black vent" pipe and broke it without noticing or saying anything to us.

Water supply and drains and HVAC were all suspect, until we went to the attic and traced back from the "leaking" vent to a wet spot about 2' away. When the framing and pipework flexed, the 2.5" vent leaked like a sieve at the glued joint, where the pipe was cracked all the way around. Replaced about 10' of black plastic and fittings.

This vent was part of the stack vent and stunk to high heavens and left damage almost identical to your picture. They will need to get access to the attic to troubleshoot and repair, and you need to treat this seriously, and let them get it repaired properly - once and for all.

There will be a need to clean up the damage resulting from this event.
 
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krn1188

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While I do understand your dilemma and health of your child

You have to also realize that that maintenance and HVAC have to coordinate and look at the issue together and come up with a "plan" so it also seems to be a case of some resistance to allow access.
If in fact there is moisture leaking you better plan on being out of there while they inspect / repair.
Is there anyway that you could temporarily relocate to a relatives house or have the rental company pay for a hotel?
Plus, Servpro as they advertise should decontamination after the fact
I don’t have any family in the area or anywhere near by, so relocating will be a pretty big challenge. I understand they need to work together, but I was just requesting that they try to coordinate it so that there were not people in and out constantly. Plus, this issue with the vent is recent - noticed it late Sunday night into Monday. All our other issues - we were waiting on a plan for who would be inspecting what and when. I just wanted to make sure the right people were here so that it would limit exposure. It looks like HVAC will be out here Wednesday and Serv Pro before then I guess.
 
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krn1188

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I had an HVAC vent similar to this one in my half bath. Two days after having the satellite installed and cables configured by DISH, this vent started to flow water. Like gallons over three hours. We, too, had just moved in, and apparently the dish fellow stepped on the "black vent" pipe and broke it without noticing or saying anything to us.

Water supply and drains and HVAC were all suspect, until we went to the attic and traced back from the "leaking" vent to a wet spot about 2' away. When the framing and pipework flexed, the 2.5" vent leaked like a sieve at the glued joint, where the pipe was cracked all the way around. Replaced about 10' of black plastic and fittings.

This vent was part of the stack vent and stunk to high heavens and left damage almost identical to your picture. They will need to get access to the attic to troubleshoot and repair, and you need to treat this seriously, and let them get it repaired properly - once and for all.

There will be a need to clean up the damage resulting from this event.
Do you think there’s that much water in there? I was assuming that it was just a little condensation Bc of the humidity and not a major leak. I haven’t seen any water coming out or anything - just my husband saying there was a tiny bit when he pulled the tape up.
 
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