Garage Owner's Worst Nightmare- Fire

[GTV]

The unthinkable happened to my father over the weekend. His two story garage that we built with help from family and friends back in 1991 burnt to the ground. Other than the decades worth of accumulated and inherited automotive and woodworking tools was his project '34 Ford 'glass coupe that he has been building for the last 11 years. He was doing the final detail work before blowing it back apart for paint. Also stored inside was a LOT of valuable vintage VW hot rod parts that I had saved for a project car. Everything is gone, it's a complete and total loss. The only thing keeping me from loosing my mind is the fact that I know he lost so much more than I did. He is absolutely devastated.

http://www.prescottenews.com/index..../29624-fire-leaves-total-loss-in-dearing-park
(FYI, there were not "containers of gasoline" in the garage)

I bring this to your attention for a couple reasons. First, make fire safety a top priority in your garage. You probably know what that means better than I do. If there was something you were putting off, do it ASAP. Take extra precautions. Go overboard. It can happen to you.

Second, where do we go from here? What should we expect? Does anyone here have advice who has lived this horror story? He has been in contact with the insurance company, but how on earth do you put a price tag on this?

I sincerely appreciate your help during this difficult time.

 

[vettex2]

what started the fire?

sounds like you folks could use a water tank nearby.

 

[Brandon314159]

Man that is terrible. As a fellow VW owner (and hot-rodder) I feel your pain on loosing accumulated parts for 'the dream project'

Glad to hear nobody was hurt.

My post-frame building has metal roof, concrete siding, and very little wood near the floor. I take fuel storage and ignition sources fairly seriously having had family friends loose their shops or homes to fire growing up. I have a ridiculous number of fire extinguishers (CO2, dry chem, and halon) sprinkled around my shop. I've been on fire before and didn't much care for it.

Approved grease rag storage is important (we had one light off at my high school growing up but it never escaped the can). Early detection is important and it sounds like this area is real dry and light on the water supply. Hopefully rebuilding is possible.

My insurance company (in discussion home/shop/etc. loss due to fire or whatever else we're covered for) indicated that they cover materials and labor to rebuild the structure. I'm sure it'll be a minor battle and I hope that nothing is found in the investigation to put the blame on your father (causing insurance to not want to pay out).

Cheers.

 

[Hephaestus29]

If you find yourself in need of a full auto
transmission I have one Ive been thinking
about parting with. If I remember correctly
it came out of a fastback.

 

[Rickster55]

That truly *****. So sorry. I guess the bright side is that nobody got hurt or worse.

 

[Kaizen]

I don't know what they are called but it's a middleman that fights with insurance companies. Hopefully your dad has accurate inventory or video of all his stuff - something I do yearly. This old house did a project for Tom Silvia's brother in Billerica. He had a lot of collectibles and they outline what these people do. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fullthrottle24]

First, glad everyone is safe. Not sure how it is where you live, but here fire restoration services swarm in trying to give you advice and take advantage of your misfortune. If you have any receipts from items in garage, that will help with insurance. Fire departments sometimes do their own investigations, if so work with them first insurance company second. Insurance companies don't care about sentimental value, just appraised value. That *****!

 

[fullthrottle24]

what started the fire?

sounds like you folks could use a water tank nearby.

By the way:

the fire tetrahedron is a four-sided geometric representation of the four factors necessary for fire: fuel (any substance that can undergo combustion), heat (heat energy sufficient to release vapor from the fuel and cause ignition), oxidizing agent (air containing oxygen), and uninhibited chemical chain reaction

Second:

Your advice of a water tank does not help put out a fire. You would need a fire suppression system.

How about having some sympathy or something useful to say when you post.

 

[59 wagon man]

I don't know what they are called but it's a middleman that fights with insurance companies. Hopefully your dad has accurate inventory or video of all his stuff - something I do yearly. This old house did a project for Tom Silvia's brother in Billerica. He had a lot of collectibles and they outline what these people do. Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

they are called public adjusters and usually work on a percentage of what they collect

 

[driftpin]

what started the fire?

The investigation will probably focus on the chimney for the wood-burning stove, as that sounds like a potential cause. A start would be for the fire investigator to file the national report on the equipment in the fire (NFIRS), where it's suspected that the fire began. A search of the database could reveal that a particular model of heating device has a higher proportionate number of fires where that appliance is involved.

Poorly-maintained masonry chimneys are often the source of residential fires, as they become creosote-laden, not having been cleaned, and the flues may have damage which allows migration of embers outside of the intended pathway of the chimney flue. I suspect the wood stove may have had a metal chimney. The joint where the chimney passes through the roof, or any structural member in its path, is another likely location.

Depending on what type of wood was being burned, that can also contribute to the incidence of fire. Burning PT lumber may seem like a 'good way to dispose of scraps,' but the chemicals it's treated with are nothing you want to be inhaling as the wood combusts. The material can also deposit in the chimney, and continue to out-gas every time the stove is fueled and used.

Highly-resinous wood can burn unevenly, and can explode with much force when the resin is heated to its combustible point. Embers from this could carry onto a combustible surface outside the chimney.

Here is an article from the NFPA which can give the interested consumer information on chimney fires: http://www.nfpa.org/Assets/files/Ab...ential Fires Involving Chimney Connectors.pdf

Here are NFPA standards for residential chimneys: http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-stand...ist-of-codes-and-standards?mode=code&code=211

I'm sorry to hear of your property loss, thank god no one was injured.

As to evaluation of what was in the garage, I periodically take a video of the garage contents, including the drawers full of tools, or anywhere you have them concealed, in cabinets, for instance. This at least gives you a starting point to itemize what's lost. It's always good to have a rider for your tool collection to ensure you have additional coverage but I am afraid that vehicles uninsured are probably unrecoverable, unless you had some-sort of a rider.

 

[captain14]

There has been several other threads here on members loosing their garages to fires.

Blue Bomber(?) was one, his avatar is a taillight from a 1959 Chevrolet (?)

And maybe two more I can think of. I know two of them wrote about the recovery process in thier threads.

I feel For both of your losses.

 

[andersen24]

Sorry for your loss - it is one of the most traumatic things a person can go through. Bottom line, everyone is safe, and items can be replaced.

A couple of things.....fire departments typically conduct investigations for criminal negligence (or assisted by local LE) and for prevention measures. i.e. a space heater starts a fire, reports it to UL and find there are other circumstances where space heater 'x' has caused similar fires. Insurance companies will pay the claim and their investigators are looking to subrogate the expense of the claim.

My advice - remember your insurance rep is basically the sales person, you will be dealing with the adjuster. The adjuster's job is to pay the claim, but protect the financial interests of the insurance company. What they tell you is NOT the final say. HOPEFULLY you have receipts, photo's etc. Sentimental pricing is not in their vocabulary. Too many times I have seen when something like this happens people realize they are way underinsured - hopefully that is not the case for you. Stand firm on your beliefs and start NOW listing all the contents and start pricing replacement costs for items. They won't pay you for what it is new today, they will depreciate the value and pay you that. Do the work now and it will save you headaches in the future. Good luck, ***** to see ANYBODY have to go through this!

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Holy ****! I'm glad there were no injuries. Sorry for your loss.

Tommy

 

[PFSard]

Sorry to hear about the disaster in the Prescott area. Hopefully, the affected will have little hassle with the insurance company. I have no advice on how to handle the insurers.

 

[summit151]

Sorry to hear that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PeterT]

Gl.ad it wasn't my garage

 

[gnpenning]

Sorry for your loss. More importantly I'm glad no one was hurt.

Several years back I had a trailer house that I lived in while building a new home. I had moved about 90% into the new home and was showing the trailer to rent. I had reduced my insurance not covering contents as I wasn't going to have any there. I showed it and the next morning it was on fire. A total loss. While my adjuster was decent to work with you will still feel like the got you.

My local FD was out on a agreement call with another department. The fire house is just over a mile from my place. Instead they had all hands 25 minutes away at an apartment complex fire. People there lost their homes and much more than I did. Many had to relocate for an extended period of time and lost everything. I was lucky compared to them. My local department helped save many others from losing there homes.

I just did an insurance audit this winter. I have added many tools and equipment since the last time. I made a major increase in coverage on buildings and contents. The one thing my agent made clear was terminology. If you tell the adjuster you did work for others and you do not have a Commercial policy you will be out of luck. I don't have hay in my barn but I do have feed. I don't have any used parts but have materials and supplies.

Use caution in how you label items. It can mean the difference between coverage and getting nothing. I hope you have good coverage.

 

[1jjpop]

My neighbor had a fire ,lost all his tools & etc. , he had to make a list of his tools.He listed ever socket ever wrench sperately . Then the Ins. paid him 80% . He got his check & went & bought sets of each. Come out pretty good.

 

[ard]

Ive walked through my house and my shop with a video camera and did a verbal inventory of **** (er, my valuable tools, equipment and parts). "Here we have an antique VW jack from a 1969 beetle. Here is a Stanley Plane, here is another with number blah blah" Just speaking and letting your recollection flow will create a powerful record. You might not care about 20% of the **** in the video, but once you force the insurance to pay replacement value on that, maybe you dont get screwed so bad in the end....

Trying to remember everything after the fact would be impossible.

It took hours, transferred it to a thumbdrive, tossed it in the safety deposit box with the digital backups.

 

[jarhead]

WOW, first off glad everyone is ok, Sorry about the loss of valuables.

 

[redrunner]

Been there, done that, would not wish it on anyone.

Really sorry for your loss. It is very depressing to even look at it.

My fire was a small flash fire, cleaning solution caught on fire via some sparks about 3 gallons. I tried to put it out with fire extinguishers and ended up calling the FD. It was unbelievable how fast the stuff burned up the wall when I hit the fire with an extinguisher.

The best part of the story was the insurance company adjuster was great to work with. I felt I was treated very good. He understood what I wanted and did not argue much at all about the contents. The work of cleaning up took almost the entire summer with every thing covered in soot. Smoke sponges to work to remove most of it, then shellac based primer, followed by paint.

 

[_cruster]

Gl.ad it wasn't my garage

Classy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[GTV]

Wow, quite a lot of responses here. Thank you.
To answer some questions, yes, the fire had something to do with the wood stove. Metal chimney. He used untreated wood from a trees. He started a small fire then went back inside the house to let it heat up a little. Something he has done most winter mornings for many years. The fire somehow escaped the chimney and spread to either the roof or the second floor.

He has a fair amount of receipts saved from his hot rod build. All of my parts were rare old performance parts that are painfully hard to find. They were acquired at swap meets, online, or horse trading. An easy $10-$15k worth at "retail" prices, but I keep remembering more so that figure is climbing. It was all of my really good stuff. I don't expect to get anything back. It stings.

I recently moved into a home/garage of my own and I will definitely keep track of its contents. Fire suppression system is a great idea. Is there a smoke detector that would work well in a garage environment? I imagine a home unit would get set off all the time in a working shop. What about a "safe" place for flammable liquids and such?

Thanks again for the words of wisdom (well, most of them).

 

[moneypit_k5]

x2 on recording your property. And keep a copy somewhere other than your house.

I try to take some photos of the shop every so often, just as a visual queue.

 

[vettex2]

By the way:

the fire tetrahedron is a four-sided geometric representation of the four factors necessary for fire: fuel (any substance that can undergo combustion), heat (heat energy sufficient to release vapor from the fuel and cause ignition), oxidizing agent (air containing oxygen), and uninhibited chemical chain reaction

Second:

Your advice of a water tank does not help put out a fire. You would need a fire suppression system.

How about having some sympathy or something useful to say when you post.

or water for the fire trucks

I asked a serious question.
I also read the article and it said there was no water nearby.
Now you wanna be a richard?

Sorry I didn't bow down to you.
Nor will I ever.

 

[strength_and_power]

Sorry about what happened. Hopefully some good will come from it, personal heightened awareness or someone else will benefit.
Www.uline.com for various cabinets designed to store flammable liquids may be a good starting point. Or Grainger or probably most of the industrial supply places. I'm sure OSHA has all sorts of regulations for flammable items and providing a safe workplace.
My grandparents retired to Prescott, 19 Highland Terrace, top of a hill with an awesome view of Thumb Butte. The house had central HVAC but also a few wood burning stoves, hearing your story has me given me new respect for those things.
Best of luck in the days ahead


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[IdahoMan]

Those little fire suppression sprinklers are pretty inexpensive I think. I don't know how quickly the initiate though. Anyone?

 

[SuperCat]

Sorry to hear about your Dad's huge loss, it must be tough to stomach. The most important thing is your Dad is okay. Unless some of us, you still have your Dad. I am sure your Dad was there for you, now it is time for you to be there for him. Give him a hand rebuilding his shop, or if the insurance company does that for him, help him break it in! Life is short, so spend more time with your Dad whenever you can. There will come a day when he is gone, and you will wish you had just a little more time to spend with him, turning a wrench, telling a joke, fixing something. I miss my Dad.

 

[garagelogician]

Wow, such a terrible loss...but thank God your Dad is safe and sound and that their house didn't burn up too. I hope all goes well with the insurance company and that he can rebuild/resupply. Be sure to make plenty of memories with him in the new shop.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. I almost had a fire once in my garage from a leaky torch set up. Luckily it was in the middle of the floor and away from combustibles. I was able to get the valve closed and fire out before it got out of hand. But it was scary as hell. Now I check for leaks all the time and have spark arrestors.

We also had a fire when I was a kid in a large shed/workshop area so I know the feeling somewhat. Although we didn't have a lot of really valuable stuff like your dad did but there were losses.

At least no one was injured and the house was saved.

I have a lot of flammable material, not in flame cabinets, that I've been meaning to weed through and reduce. This might be the impetus I need to do it.

As far as flame cabinets go, I know they are available but they are also pretty expensive. I am trying to find a used one but even those are sometimes out of my budget. I need to start by purging what I can't really use in the short term.

 

[maxpower_hd]

Sorry about what happened. Hopefully some good will come from it, personal heightened awareness or someone else will benefit.
Www.uline.com for various cabinets designed to store flammable liquids may be a good starting point. Or Grainger or probably most of the industrial supply places. I'm sure OSHA has all sorts of regulations for flammable items and providing a safe workplace.
My grandparents retired to Prescott, 19 Highland Terrace, top of a hill with an awesome view of Thumb Butte. The house had central HVAC but also a few wood burning stoves, hearing your story has me given me new respect for those things.
Best of luck in the days ahead


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OSHA absolutely has tons of regulations on flammables. However NONE of them apply to a home workshop unless you are employing people there.

 

[Capt Chrysler]

Glad to hear no one was injured.


Capt. Chrysler

 

[strength_and_power]

OSHA absolutely has tons of regulations on flammables. However NONE of them apply to a home workshop unless you are employing people there.

I totally get that OSHA would not be involved in a home shop but you won't find specialty cabinets for flammable storage at Home Depot.

After reading multiple garage build threads, a majority of them are better equipped than a commercial shop to which there is absolutely no issue with that on my end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[justnutsandbolts]

I am looking for these fire suppression systems

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1505322&postcount=72

It says he got them from Griots Garage but I cannot find them there.

I cannot find any pricing info. They all seem to be made in India.
Some search reveals this:

http://fire-extinguishers-hydrants-...sure-modular-5-kg-automatic-fire-extinguisher

http://www.ceasefireservices.com/automatic-modular-fire-extinguisher.html

http://www.delta-tec.net/products/tungus.htm

This 5kg unit is $42 but it would have to be imported.

http://www.kanexfireextinguishers.com/automatic-modular-powder-fire-extinguisher.html

 

[strength_and_power]

OSHA absolutely has tons of regulations on flammables. However NONE of them apply to a home workshop unless you are employing people there.

I totally get that OSHA would not be involved in a home shop but you won't find specialty cabinets for flammable storage at Home Depot.

After reading multiple garage build threads, a majority of them are better equipped than a commercial shop to which there is absolutely no issue with that on my end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Micommando]

Sorry to hear this news! Glad all were ok.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Approved grease rag storage is important", as is type X sheetrock

My parent's home needed gutting after a pile of drop cloth left by a painter, wetted with paint thinner and turpentine spontaneously went on fire. Drop cloths were folded 1 1/2 hours before the fire. Another issue, oily rags need to be washed thoroughly, if you can smell oil after washing, wash them again' better yet use paper towel, placed in a metal receptacle outside. Turpentine is a crazy solvent it will react with just about anything combustible.

 

[UpstateNY]

Wow, thanks for posting. I don't use a wood stove in my shop but I'm sure all on here that do will give it an inspection and a good cleaning as a result of your story. Is that your dad standing off to the right adjacent to the tree in the first pic ?

http://www.prescottenews.com/index..../29624-fire-leaves-total-loss-in-dearing-park

 

[cgall]

Sorry to hear of this terrible loss. How did he get the VW out, rear door?

 

[Aberdale]

Thanks of the heads up on fire protection. It's something that most of us probably don't give a second thought until too late.

On the positive side, no one was hurt. Hopefully you (or your dad) had a decent insurance policy in place. Most of the things lost are just things. And it's unlikely you will be able to replace it all just like it was. But you will have the opportunity to get other things to replace the old ones. New tools! New vehicle projects! And you will be able to rebuild with improvements that will make the space even better than it was before!

At least, that's the way I would look at it. It eases the pain of the loss.