Garage Painting help

[bobberbob]

Hi there. I just joined the site and would like to update my garage to be more functional.

Here is the back story leading up to my most recent curious event:

About 2 years ago I painted all the walls in my garage grey. I didn't put primer down because the paint that I had, if I remember correctly, had primer in it. At least I think that's the case, but it was a couple years ago.

I then painted a Harley sign on one wall, and a Longhorn emblem on the other. All was looking good.

The other day, thanks to this site, I decided to re-paint and leave grey on the bottom but paint white about 4 feet down from the ceiling, then separate that with a red line.

After successfully painting one wall with white, I started with the 4" red line. After three coats it still wasn't covering very well so I stopped. The next day I removed the tape and behold: both the white, and the grey paint was being removed as I pulled the tape away.

What was worse: I could put a finger nail under the red paint and peel it back to the drywall in sheets.

So I took a putty knife to the white and the Longhorn emblem and was able to pull off big sheets of paint, right down to the drywall. It even pulled up the old grey that was underneath.

However, the grey on the bottom doesn't come off so easy. It is sticking well.





SO:::: Any ideas why this has happened? Has this happened to you? Any advise?

 

[TONE]

When you painted the original cote 2 years ago did you clean the drywall?

Usually the dust from sanding is the cause of lifting paint. You can paint with the best paint but if its going on top of dust it has nothing to bond or hold to.

How was the original paint job holding up?

And welcome to the site.

 

[Mavawreck]

What kind of paint are you using? Is it all the same kind? I was in a house the other day where the popcorn ceiling was coming down in one big sheet several mils thick, unprimed sheetrock underneath and it seemed like moisture was the initial cause. No adhesion at all though. I wasn't there to fix that fortunately.

 

[bobberbob]

The original paint appears to have stuck to the wall pretty well. It is not easy to chip off. However, when I put the white paint on top of it, then it became very easy to peel away, all the way to the Sheetrock.

It's very confusing. It started to come off at the seams, but as I worked on it more, it started to come off all over.

I have attached a picture or two of the before peeling. I have one of the beginning of the peeling when I started to notice I had a bigger problem.

Later today I will post the most recent version of the chaos, wherein the entire top section of white and most of my Longhorn are now just a memory.

 

[Mavawreck]

Sounds like a paint compatability issue to me. If it were mine, I'd get all the loose stuff off, hit it with some kilz primer, then start over again with an interior paint of your choosing but stick with one brand and obviously one type if you can.

 

[DYNA BILL]

bobberbob,
Sorry I don't know how to help with your paint problem, but I do like your theme. My garage...

 

[neverenoughtools]

Sounds like a paint compatability issue to me. If it were mine, I'd get all the loose stuff off, hit it with some kilz primer, then start over again with an interior paint of your choosing but stick with one brand and obviously one type if you can.

I second this statement !

 

[rquackenbush]

This looks like latex over oil paint... That might not be the case, but it goes along with the "paint compatibility issue." I've had similar problems painting trim in houses... While most modern houses are painted with latex, there are still some contractors that paint all their trim with oil because it flows better (it really does work better). However, no matter how much you clean and rough it up, the latex will eventually peel off just like it did in your picture.

 

[bobberbob]

bobberbob,
Sorry I don't know how to help with your paint problem, but I do like your theme. My garage...

Dyna Bill that is a nice garage.

Here is a pic of when I first painted mine:

 

[bobberbob]

Do you think if I buy some PVA Drywall primer and paint over the rest of the grey and also the now bare wall, that new paint will stick better?

 

[bobberbob]

Here is a picture of the most recent state:

 

[DYNA BILL]

Dyna Bill that is a nice garage.

Here is a pic of when I first painted mine:

Man, that looks great bobberbob! Wish I had gone larger on my Harley logo. Did you hand paint it? I used a stencil I drew on Autocad then cut it out and traced on the wall. Then hand painted it.
Your bike looks great too! Black is the only color!

 

[bobberbob]

I printed a copy of the logo on a standard sheet of paper. Then I measured from the edges in Centimeters then scaled it up to fit my wall. It was all math to make it fit.

Once I got the straight lines done, I then used string to get the non-straight lines in order to pencil them in.

I have the whole series of the paint job somewhere. I will have to start a new post soon and post the progression pics.

It took me three weeks and three coats on each color, and 2 on the black.

 

[jvitez]

Do you think if I buy some PVA Drywall primer and paint over the rest of the grey and also the now bare wall, that new paint will stick better?

Nope, not the best. PVA drywall primer is fine for bare fresh drywall, but not the best for any that's been up for a white or already been painted. The reason it's used at all is because it's cheaper than high adhesion stain blocking primer. It works because fresh drywall is quite porous, so you can get away with a cheaper, less adhesive primer and has essentially zero hiding ability. For anything else, you need a better, more expensive primer.

For your scraped off drywall, even though it's bare now, I'd only use a high adhesion, stain blocking primer. Maybe you don't need the stain blocking, but the two usually come together, as least with the paint brands I've used. Top coat paint on bare drywall will never stick as well as primer, because that's how it's formulated.

Paint incompatibility is often based on the solvent, like was mentioned, ie latex over oil, shellac based over oil, oil over latex, etc. It's fine to use latex over an oil primer though, and many high quality modern latex top coat paints specifically state they can be used over an oil top coat, but these are usually the more expensive lines in a particular brand.

My recommendation: peel/scrape off everything that's loose, everywhere. Prime over bare and partially scraped drywall with a high adhesion stain blocking primer, one good coat should do. Don't scrimp. Then repaint with a high quality latex top coat, and use at least two coats. This should last a very long time.

Don't buy cheap paint!!!! You get what you pay for, especially in paint. I don't think brands make as much difference as the line within the brand. Don't buy the top top line either. Usually you're paying for zero VOC and other dubious benefits, at least for a garage. I find the second from the top in a brand is the sweet spot of price/performance.

 

[bobberbob]

Nope, not the best. PVA drywall primer is fine for bare fresh drywall, but not the best for any that's been up for a white or already been painted. The reason it's used at all is because it's cheaper than high adhesion stain blocking primer. It works because fresh drywall is quite porous, so you can get away with a cheaper, less adhesive primer and has essentially zero hiding ability. For anything else, you need a better, more expensive primer.

For your scraped off drywall, even though it's bare now, I'd only use a high adhesion, stain blocking primer. Maybe you don't need the stain blocking, but the two usually come together, as least with the paint brands I've used. Top coat paint on bare drywall will never stick as well as primer, because that's how it's formulated.

Paint incompatibility is often based on the solvent, like was mentioned, ie latex over oil, shellac based over oil, oil over latex, etc. It's fine to use latex over an oil primer though, and many high quality modern latex top coat paints specifically state they can be used over an oil top coat, but these are usually the more expensive lines in a particular brand.

My recommendation: peel/scrape off everything that's loose, everywhere. Prime over bare and partially scraped drywall with a high adhesion stain blocking primer, one good coat should do. Don't scrimp. Then repaint with a high quality latex top coat, and use at least two coats. This should last a very long time.

Don't buy cheap paint!!!! You get what you pay for, especially in paint. I don't think brands make as much difference as the line within the brand. Don't buy the top top line either. Usually you're paying for zero VOC and other dubious benefits, at least for a garage. I find the second from the top in a brand is the sweet spot of price/performance.

Thanks very much.

This is good advice!

I have scraped off all the loose stuff I can find. I have now spackled the areas of paint that I didn't get and the holes. Tomorrow I will sand the hole thing, clean, then prime.

Hopefully tomorrow I will have new photos to post of a freshly primed wall.

If that goes well, in a week I will resume my painting scheme, with white on top, grey on bottom. I hope to seperate the two with a red stripe, or a black stripe, then a 1" grey strip about 1" from the ceiling.

I have the vision, it is just the details of painting the seem to elude me.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Daniel Dudley]

I think you used water based original paint, and it did not sink in. I think you are using water based paint over it, and the water is getting in, and causing it to lift. I have had problems with water absorbtion in the past, and MAYBE a trouble shooter oil/alkyd based primer will help.

But you know the problem is in the base coat. Sometimes a trouble shooter primer will get in and stick better, but the real reason it is used is because it does not react the same as a water based product.

I have no idea if this will be helpful to you, or what products you are using now, but there is absolutely zero penetration of that first coat into the drywall.

 

[Ocho]

I'm not sold on the the paint/primer all in one stuff. I've used the paint with primer mixed in two or three times now with less than stellar results.

I had a paint job go south on me like that a few years ago. We used the paint/primer all in one stuff from HD and when we pulled the tape off the paint came with it. We had painted our front door and the entire door peeled off in about ten minutes. IIRC, it took the old paint with it as well, and it was several years old.

The last couple of paint chores I went back to Kilz followed by the regular Behr paint and it looked great.

Oh yeah! Welcome to GJ!

 

[NUTTSGT]

i had similar problems in my garage. I had started a thread on it too. The wall are OSB painted with an oil based paint. Years later, last fall, I painted the top of the walls white. I used Kilz oil based primer. I wanted a blue stripe to break the two colors. I used a RustoLeum latex paint. It peeled too. I ended up, sanding where the stripe would be and painting 3 coats. I let it dry for two days. Then I took a razorblade and cut the edge between the painted stripe and tape. This kept it from peeling off.

 

[scott3257]

I used Glidden PVA primer from HD and topped it with Behr paint. I was able to peel sheets of the paint, off the primer. I painted a red and black stripe with Behr all in one paint n primer (The expensive stuff). The paint I used for the stripe stuck to the PVA primer just fine, but the other paint just peel off in sheets. Im just carfeul now and try not to touch the paint. Been a few months and seems to have dried cured all the wasy and sticks better than the first few days after the repaint.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

I would suggest pulling off what you can from the wall & sand down any major flaws. Find a paint store that carries Zinsser Gardz. Put a coat on the whole wall. It should **** into the porous area. Put another coat or 2 on until the finish is shiny when dry. Once you have that shiny finish you can putty & sand. Once you're finished with that, touch up those spots with more Gardz. In 3 hours you'll be ready to paint, or prime if you're doing light over dark. Gardz penetrates & locks down the surface. I'm currently using it to lock down the surface of walls that weren't primed properly, & when new wet paint hits the old paint & sit for a bit, the surface blisters & lifts away. A gallon should be all you need for that wall. Benjamin Moore carries it in my area.

 

[Ohio Auto]

Are you using frog tape???? If not that is what I would use.

Secondly are you removing the tape right before the paint completely dries?? If not you should.

 

[Kevin54]

I printed a copy of the logo on a standard sheet of paper. Then I measured from the edges in Centimeters then scaled it up to fit my wall. It was all math to make it fit.

Once I got the straight lines done, I then used string to get the non-straight lines in order to pencil them in.

I have the whole series of the paint job somewhere. I will have to start a new post soon and post the progression pics.

It took me three weeks and three coats on each color, and 2 on the black.

For others in the future, keep an eye out for overhead projectors like they used to use in school. They come up for sale quite often and can be bought for around $20. Print anything you want on transparency plastic for printers then project the logo onto the wall. I even used one for an asymmetrical flame job on the tailgate of my truck