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Garage Pics and questions

ckucia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
We moved into our new place over the very cold weekend.

Now that we've closed on the house, I'm comfortable posting some pics of the garage.

It's a 32x48. Pole construction with a poured floor.

Insurance company wants it sided ASAP.

Questions will come in a post after the pics.

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ckucia

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
So the structure obviously needs some OSB replaced and some siding. There's a pile of siding over the hill - haven't counted it yet to see if I have enough.

Question 1. Housewrap? I'd like to insulate someday, but it seems like house wrap is inexpensive and would seal out a lot of wind.

Question 2. The bottom of the structure. OSB is basically touching the ground. Even if covered with siding, I'm worried about longterm moisture. On the back there's a gap between the siding/osb and the poured floor.

So I was thinking of maybe using concrete blocks for the first foot or two and then siding/osb from there up. Problem is, the poles are on the outer edge of the slab, and then there are horizontal 2x4s, then OSB, then siding.

Can I just block in between the poles? They appear to be PT 6x6s, but it still seems like exposing them to weather is a bad idea. How about blocks between the poles, then concrete backer board on the outside face below the OSB/Siding?

Or, can I set the blocks so the poles are inside the void and let them overhang the slab by the thickness of the outer block wall? This won't be load-bearing, just critter and moisture blocking.

Any other suggestions for the lower couple of feet of wall?

Question 3. The roof. Don't like how water runs off at all. Long term I'd like to add ladder eaves on the side, and restructure the edge of the gambrel to add wings. I figure the wings will slow the water down enough that I could actually hang gutters and they wouldn't get ripped off by the first heavy downpour. There's barely any overhang now to get a gutter under. Any chance I can get temporary gutters on there that would stay on? Worried the steep angle of the roof will wash them off in a heavy rain. Keeping water away from the foundation seems like a good idea.

The gambrel doesn't use barn trusses. The top part of the roof is just a standard truss on top of vertical walls. Then the lower roof are just joists formed between the bottom of the upper truss and the first floor outside wall. Adding wings shouldn't be a structural issue. It does bother me that all the weight of the upper part of the roof is borne through the 2nd story walls onto the 2nd story floor rather than being transmitted to the outer walls, but it is what it is.
 

Iroc-Z

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Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
720
Location
New Germany, MN
My Opinions
Question 1
Hose wrap is a must. Is there any under the siding that is up?
Question 2
I would use pressure treated plywood or similar board and go around the bottom. That is what most pole shed builders do.
Question 3
I would try and keep it simple and see if gutters would solve the problem.

Last Opinion
That building looks like it has good bones but I would be questioning the siding and osb on the whole building. If it was me I would probably pull off the siding on the front and back and repair replace and osb that is damaged. Then wrap the whole building in house wrap and replace siding. The siding looks to be super cheap vinyl siding. This way you could get the base boards done in treated and know that your good. Roof looks like good steal so you should be good there. Should be really nice when done.
 
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ckucia

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
My Opinions
Question 1
Hose wrap is a must. Is there any under the siding that is up?

I haven't looked, but I assume there isn't. There is OSB under it.

Question 2
I would use pressure treated plywood or similar board and go around the bottom. That is what most pole shed builders do.

Sounds like it would work.

Question 3
I would try and keep it simple and see if gutters would solve the problem.

Last Opinion
That building looks like it has good bones but I would be questioning the siding and osb on the whole building. If it was me I would probably pull off the siding on the front and back and repair replace and osb that is damaged. Then wrap the whole building in house wrap and replace siding. The siding looks to be super cheap vinyl siding. This way you could get the base boards done in treated and know that your good. Roof looks like good steal so you should be good there. Should be really nice when done.

That's basically my plan. Pull all the siding, repair all the OSB. Wrap it. Put the siding back on.

Also thinking about adding some windows...
 

Iroc-Z

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Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
720
Location
New Germany, MN
Last if you do end up replacing allot of osb do it one wall at a time. I would not rip off osb around the whole building in one shot. That is just my opinion. Even with the stringers the osb helps keep the structure square.
 

stm317

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Aug 8, 2017
Messages
1,339
I agree with the overall plan of repairing, wrapping it all, and then residing. Although, if you don't have enough of the current siding laying around, then trying to match it could be pretty difficult.

If you're going to be buying new siding, I wonder if it wouldn't be faster/cheaper to tear all of the OSB off, wrap the naked framing in Tyvek, and then just hang metal on the exterior like a traditional pole barn. That would avoid the cost of new OSB and additional siding.
 

Iroc-Z

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Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
720
Location
New Germany, MN
I agree with the overall plan of repairing, wrapping it all, and then residing. Although, if you don't have enough of the current siding laying around, then trying to match it could be pretty difficult.

If you're going to be buying new siding, I wonder if it wouldn't be faster/cheaper to tear all of the OSB off, wrap the naked framing in Tyvek, and then just hang metal on the exterior like a traditional pole barn. That would avoid the cost of new OSB and additional siding.

Price it out both ways. If you are ok with the look of tin it might be the way to go. The tin in my opinion would out last cheap vinyl siding.
 
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ckucia

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Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
Definitely agree to do one wall at a time with the OSB. Especially not knowing how deep the poles go or how well their anchored.

One of the reasons I was looking at other solutions for the last few feet at the bottom is that would also free up more siding for reuse in case I need it.

Worse case, the one end wall with the worst OSB is pretty hard to see - if it didn't match exactly, or even if it ended up being white, I could probably live with it.
 

Iroc-Z

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Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
720
Location
New Germany, MN
Another option I have seen for people who want the build to match is do the sides and the back in steal and then spend money on nice siding for the front.
 

matt_i

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Mar 14, 2008
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10,741
Location
SE Michigan
I had a structure in TN with osb touching the ground. My solution was to form a shallow footing and pour it with bagged concrete and some anchor bolts. Then place pressure-treated on top of that and reframe the wall. Sheet with new ply and sided with vinyl.
 

Orionrising

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Nov 16, 2012
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960
Location
Western Maine
Early this fall osb was almost as expensive as zip panels no housewrap to worry about then.

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rooster-tail

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Dec 20, 2012
Messages
11
Location
St. Louis, Misery
Put 4ft. green metal siding on the bottom all the way around. They cut mine to length when I bought it. Use the siding you take off and from the pile to finish the top. You can always change the top to metal later if you want. As others have said, definitely wrap it. I wish I would have wrapped mine before I sided it.
 
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ckucia

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Sep 23, 2008
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Location
West Virginia
I like the idea of metal on the bottom. Even if it were a shade off from the roof, nobody would likely notice.
 
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ckucia

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
Just an update to the thread...

We're sorta moved in - at least we're living in the new place.

We're 2" above the amount of rain we should have by this time of year. The driveway turned to mud about 4 weeks ago. I'm parking at the top and driving the ATV up and down the driveway to minimize the damage. I guess I'll be doing some excavation if it ever stops raining.

That's made getting any sort of sheet goods down to the garage a little difficult, short of me marching them down by hand one at a time. I've been putting it off, but the homeowner insurance gave us 60 days and that's the end of this month.

I used Google Earth to measure the driveway. It's 750' from the road to the front of the garage and about 100' elevation drop. Google's reasonably accurate horizontally, but sometimes their elevation leaves a bit to be desired.

My wife wants a range installed (the cooking kind), so I've managed to rig up the ATV with a hitch that will fit my HF trailer to get the stove down. I can use that to shuttle OSB/plywood/etc down.

So, the way the PO built the pole barn is with poles, obviously. The poles are basically 8' apart, a mix of 6x6, 6x4 and 4x4. He made the corner poles fit the building footprint of 32x48, but then he used outside girts making the whole building 32'3" x 48'3" so whole sheets don't fill the space. At the top of the poles, there are two 2x12 boards nailed on either side along the long wall supporting the 2nd floor joists. Not how I would have done it, but that's what I got to work with. The girts also leave an odd gap around the garage doors (never really finished) that has to be covered.

So, the plan is to replace the outside girts on the lower part of the walls with bookshelf/commercial girts and spacer boards. That will make it possible to use full sheets of OSB and will close the gap around the garage doors. I'm going to use PT plywood on the bottom 2' and then OSB on the rest with the girts spaced to intersect with the gaps in the sheet wood (unlike what the PO did) Plan on using metal roofing/siding on top of the PT plywood on the lower portion as soon as I find a good source and then use the vinyl siding on the rest. When I hit the level of the beams holding up the 2nd floor, I'm just going to continue that lip around the side walls and then continue up the sides. Seems the easiest way to go and it will give an interesting detail I suppose.

Leaving off windows on the 1st floor for security even though we're in the middle of nowhere. It also give more wall space. I will probably put some on the 2nd floor since I already have them and it's darker up there with no doors.

I can get metal roofing at Lowes although they seem pretty pricey, but most other places around here aren't open on the weekends or evenings which limits my ability to use them. I don't need all that much so I may go ahead and use them. I'm going to use housewrap under the metal and siding, although I'm still debating between Lowe's house brand and Tyvek. I think Tyvek's better, but it's just an unheated garage and either's got to be better than nothing. Thought about using felt paper, but the wrap's a lot easier once I have to get up on a ladder with it.

We've got rain constantly until Saturday afternoon and the range is a priority. I hope to at least get some PT plywood and maybe the metal siding/roofing down to the site and maybe start cutting/installing it this weekend. I have to go bottom up with all of it, and it seems easiest to work my way up in sections - remove/install sheeting/install housewrap/install siding then get all the ladders set and do the next 4' or 8' taking down the old and putting up the new.
 

nolimits76

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Jul 11, 2013
Messages
959
Location
Oklahoma
If you are running short on time, it is plausible to go back to the insurance company and ask for a time extension.

When I request time extensions on construction projects, I like to utilize a combination of historical data from NOAA and a reputable site like weather.com to show precipitation amounts and dates it was actually received. The tricky part is that a torrential downpour on Sunday can affect my guys ability to work the next few days afterwards, which is when daily reports, etc. come in handy to prove I have a legitimate time delay claim.

My point is using this is a logical and methodical method I use with existing government agencies so it should suffice for your purpose too.

Here's a link to the NOAA website:
https://www.climate.gov/maps-data/dataset/past-weather-zip-code-data-table
 

dave_dj1

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Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Messages
222
Location
Jackson, NY
That right there is why we need zoning, and I'm not an advocate of more .gov supervision but it would keep things like this from happening. That being said there are suppliers that carry metal roofing and the accessories to go with it like J channel and drip cap. I'll throw a couple names out there and you can check to see if they are in your area.
Harvey industries
Erie materials
abc building supplies
I don't see any of these names in VA but I did find these: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...3!1f0!2f0!3f0!3m2!1i379!2i265!4f13.1;start:20
 

astroracer

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Joined
Jun 22, 2005
Messages
3,001
Location
Mid_Michigan
For the rat wall use PT tongue groove 2 x 6's. Plywood will still wick moisture and the 2 x 6's will be the same thickness as the girts.
Something like this will work well.
2v295zHANx9EDKg.jpg
 
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ckucia

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Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
WV has adopted the IBC IIRC, but most counties have no enforcement outside the metro areas. Frankly, I doubt most people outside those areas would support it and enforcing it over such a rugged, sparsely populated area with very independent (by necessity) people is pretty impractical. The local tax authorities are trying, slowly.

It does lead to a lot of strange construction.

It's in my nature to at least find out what code is for a project and I generally comply with it, but no one's looking over my shoulder here.

My profession is IT, but I got far enough studying mechanical engineering to know when I'm in over my head. I research just about everything to some degree before I start.

All that said, you'd be amazed where some of the locals can shoehorn a mobile home without using any specialized equipment.

This place was a foreclosure, so we knew a lot of the issues going in, although we've had a few surprises, which we were mostly prepared for. We had an unusually cold winter followed by more rain than we've seen in several years. That was something we hadn't planned for.

On the flip side, it will be worth close to double what we paid once we've fixed everything and we plan on retiring here so we have time to put off some things that aren't urgent. Once we get through mud season, ill have a lot more time and more daylight too.

Just have to get over the hump while keeping my sanity.

But honestly, I never thought I'd have a space this big. I was expecting to build a 12x24 workshop maybe with a storage loft. Even with the issues, I consider myself very lucky and I'm looking forward to all the projects ill be able to accomplish now that I couldn't even dream about before. After two years working on gravel outdoors, and a garage too small to even get my truck in before that, I really appreciate what I have now. My wife says it's a place worthy of my abilities, so now I have to prove her right.
 

xtremek

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Apr 13, 2012
Messages
11,603
Location
St. Johns, Mi
I totally get the soup driveway. To make things easier, can you get some 2"-4" crushed concrete to dump in the driveway so you can drive a truck down it. I understand this thread is about the siding, but maybe a long Saturday dumping rock may make things go faster? Good luck beating the deadline.
 
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ckucia

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Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
Unfortunately, the road is steeper and almost as bad as the driveway right now. Hills on both ends where it intersects better roads. I'm not sure any heavy truck is going to want to attempt to get down it - the fire department already got stuck once.

I've complained to the state, who manages the county roads in WV, and they had an inspector come out. They said it needs to be stabilized, ditched and graded, but they can't start until the weather improves. In the meantime, they're supposed to dump some gravel as a temporary fix. But that hasn't happened yet. It's rained almost continuously since they told me they were going to do that.

There are only four full-time residents on our ~3 mile road, including us, and maybe 3 part-timers. Most of the traffic is tractors visiting the pastures. So I doubt we're a high priority. And it that doesn't change that the road is all but impassable for heavy equipment right now. I'm apparently the only one that works full time away from home - the rest are retired or farming the fields. So there hasn't been much reason to keep the road in good condition. I'm doing about as much damage as the tractors, but there isn't a lot I can do about it besides try and pick paths that do the least damage.

Could be worse. I heard on the radio that one of the local highways was blocked from a landslide this morning...
 

lakeroadster

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Jan 19, 2015
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5,166
Location
Central Colorado
Oh the joys of moving into another home.... all those unknowns.

Is the elevation of the driveway such that you can drain the water to somewhere... or are you going to just have to build it up?

The base is key, excavate and then fill with large stone. Otherwise anything you just dump on top will just end up being driven down into the mud... for decade after decade.
 
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ckucia

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Sep 23, 2008
Messages
370
Location
West Virginia
The driveway is cut into the side of a hill. There was a rough ditch on the upper side but some of it slipped and blocked it. I've cut drainage ditches across it with a shovel in an attempt to drain water off. There are also two culverts but more are needed.

I have a tractor with a scraper blade, but I haven't been able to move it yet. Maybe next weekend if we get a break in the rain. My plan right now is to get a box blade.

The driveway essentially sunk over time, so the lower side has a bit of a berm keeping the water from draining. Plan right now is to scrape that off so I get drainage on the downside, then try to excavate the slip enough that I can get a ditch along the entire length.

Then I'm going to probably rent a mini excavator and take out the rest of the slip and try to excavate some of the hill away. I'd like to put the ditch a few feet away from the driveway, widening the driveway in the process so we aren't forced into ruts by the constraints of the width. I also noticed the ground around the ditches saturates, so I'm trying to keep the water away.

Then scrape the soft mud off (I may have to do that first) and grade the stuff under that to drain to both sides. That should basically make the area "flat" other than a crown to the lower hill and to the ditch. I want at least a culvert every 100', maybe even every 50'. Then put down some geotextile cloth, and add some base rocks. The base will then end up being above grade. Once that gets packed, I'm hoping to find someone who can deliver crusher run, which is basically packable stuff for the road surface.

I can push a lot of the excavation over the hill, or drag it to the bottom and dump it on several places we could use fill.

Most of the existing gravel is now part of the mud, so I'm guessing it's a lost cause. The mud won't wash off anything without abrading it and I can't see how trying to recover the gravel is practical.

The first 500' is the worst. The lower 250 to the garage gets a little soft, but still can be driven on. I'm hoping by controlling the water on the first 500, I won't have to do much to the lower 250' and can just top it off with some more gravel. It's essentially elevated there, so water hitting it drains now, it's just what's coming down the driveway saturates it.

Of course, that's all subject to changing conditions and surprises and whether or not I can get rental equipment and stone delivered later in the year.
 
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