Garage planning stage

[kwmontreal]

So after more than a decade I am now within a year of being able to build my garage (it seems I am not alone in saving and dreaming. Although I have be browsing many plans and weeks of google searches, I think I have finally got a handle on where I am going and what I want. As I am still in the planning stages I would like to draw on the collect wisdom that you have all acquired over the years. I will only be using this garage as my “hangout/tinkering area”. No serious wood work or automotive repair. My car is going in and the john deere x740 and accessories (loader/snow blower/small trailer). The garage will be mostly unheated unless I or friends have some car repairs or something else comes up. The shop will be mostly heated on weekends. I am located just west of Montreal (postal code J0P-1M0).
There is presently a 15 year old 16 x 20 shed on blocks on the site.

I have started a basic layout as I have found a trial of a designer program on the net. I wouldn’t mind paying for one, but a simple one (ie: no autocad), so if you have suggestions in that respect, that would also be appreciated.

THE PLAN:
- 28 x 34 (garage 28 x 22, shop 14 x 17 or 14 x 21 depends on the size of the covered porch in front of the shop??)
- LED 8’ highly reflective tube lights (one in each of the shop/garage/attic on a motion sensor 10 min, the rest switched)
- 220 outlets in garage (welder) /shop (hearer welder) /attic (60gal compressor 175psi [higher=less humidity?] and plumbed through the garage (one exterior in the covered porch, one in the shop and two in the garage (one hanging 50ft real and one for the safety lockout on the lift)
- Low rise RECESSED CAR LIFT (tires/breaks oil change ect…)(5” of 3500spi base 4’ wider than the lift)(PVC 2.5” plumbed before the pour to run hydraulic/air lines to each recessed pit)
- Milzo’s ATTIC HOIST 30” x 60” (trusses will be doubled and the some … engineering not yet done)
- 7’ or 8’ barn rail door between the shop and garage (rails on the shop side and will build a 2x3 inner to make it a pocket type door so as not to lose wall space) I can keep the tractor warm without heating the garage (yes the tractor has oil pan and block heaters)
- INSULATION: walls: light sealing layer polyurethane foam – heavy mil vapor barrier and the blown in insulation. I estimate an R-14 plus or minus. Garage/Shop Ceiling: R-20 in the floor joists full length and width of the garage… and another R-20 (opposite direction) over the attic and doubling up over the rest of the garage outside the attic part of the attic trusses. R-12 between the shop and garage.
- HEAT: Garage: Here I am very undecided?? 80k Reznor furnace or 80k radiant heater?? Shop: 40k radiant heat exhausted horizontally. (over kill?? Is it harmfull to the heater if its overkill ie: short cycling?? I could probably get away with 220v construction heater, but wouldn’t heat up as fast. (I pay between $0.057 and $0.086 kwhr
- Brick façade and metal roof to match the house, and some type of siding color coordinated to go with the brick (will re-do the house as the siding is awfully ugly!! FUGLY!!

This is my dream garage. I want to do this once and do it right. Some things need to be done right away during the build (car lift) and some things can be deferred for a year or three (garage heat). I have not even discussed epoxy anti-slip floors as I haven’t even gone there yet. Its all I can do to wrap my head around the basics. I plan on doing at least 50% myself (no foundation work as it will be contracted (I do want 3500psi fiber reinforced cement and rebar).I have a friend who can draw up the plans and it usually takes anywhere from 6-10 weeks to get this through both the municipal and provincial (I am in a “historical area” according to the government, as the canal runs behind the house… where the boats use to transit to the great lakes in the days of old before the St-Lawrence seaway was built) approval process (I am biting my tongue sooo hard!! **sigh**) I need to be 1 meter (3ft.) from the property line, max 1000 sq/ft, max 18ft to roof peak from ground level. What do I do re water? I can run water from the corner of the house, but is it ok to just have a drain pit running to a small underground course gravel weeping area? I am sure I have much more to think about with your input!!

Thanks!
Kent

 

[astroracer]

Just a few things I am going to point out.
You do not need extra concrete for any "hobby" sized lift. BendPaks site calls for 3.5" of 2500 PSI for any 2 post lift under 14K. Save yourself some money here and put it toward going 38' long. (see below.)
Remember, your 21' wall is only about 20' on the inside. With your 16' door in the 21' wall you will only have about 2' of "working" space on either side of the door. Not a lot of room for benches, storage or even walking space around a vehicle. Add 4' to the length of the barn and make this section 26'. A lot more room for very little money.
I try to keep door to wall spacing to, at least, 4'. That gives you room for working and storage.
If you are building a 28' x 34', build a 28' x 34'. There is no cost savings in NOT going full square with the building and you are simply short changing yourself on space. If you need that lean to look, build a lean to on the front.
Reduce the work shop to 12' wide and add that extra 2' to the auto side.
28' x 38' building (full square) with a 12' x 28' shop and a 26' x 28' auto shop. That will be nice.
Mark

 

[FearTheH]

Why are you running 8ft lights on a motion sensor? I ask only to see your reasoning...not to say I disagree, just curious.

 

[bcoke]

IMHO I feel you should go with a square shop [28x34] at least , why the 27 foot it costs the same as 28 foot as any mulitiple of 2 equals less waste so it is more economical usually . The cost of squaring it up instead of L shaped will only add some cost to the roof and almost be a wash........again that 21 foot wide shop will be tight real quick an extra 2 or 4 feet will make all the world for workbenches the lift shelves for storage etc...as far as heat goes I have done radient in floor and swear by it ......the most comfortable and being in Vermont {just south of you]} mine is perfect and efficent {propane with condensed gas boiler] and it can be done in stages just put the pex tubing in the floor at the pouring stage and it can just sit and wait for the heat source at anytime,just my opinion....good luck and keep us posted .........bobbbycoke

 

[Jack D]

I would also add a Comm plan (phone/cable/internet) by adding separate conduit to your overall electrical planning. Near your electrical panel, plan for large space with plywood to mount all expected electrical equipment so you can have a central area to mount 'stuff' like routers/wifi and automation computers/hubs to control lights/heat/security/garage doors remotely or from your home. While your doing that start looking at using smart switches and receptacles in the initial design so you can have more flexibility down the road without complicated 3 or 4 way conventional wiring schemes.

I would suggest what ever sub-panel you decide to install you buy one that is 200% over your initial estimated needs so you have lots of slots and you don't need to pull single slot breakers and add expensive stacked breakers. I have been there and done that.

When I started looking at lighting I found some websites that allowed me to put in my dimensions with ceiling heights and select different lights to see what worked best. Don't automatically think that LED tubes are the best or a low cost solution.

 

[kwmontreal]

Hi Mark,
I hear you on the concrete, and its probably due to my insecurities on doing things just to spec and having something going wrong and that feeling of "I knew I should have .....". I may consider going to a 14ft door and the lift being centered in the garage. My wife sais she will never use the garage for her car but I still want to plan for the odd "exception" that there will be two cars in the garage a time or two a year. I am also thinking of centering the lift in the garage. I will probably bump up the shop wall but still want a covered area (generator, BBQ, bike). I can't go any wider as I am already going into the sightlines from the house. Just so I am clear, there will e a full 20 x 34 slab/roofline with a 5' by 14' (revised) covered area in front of the shop


FearTheH,
I will have only one light in each garage section (garage, shop, attic) on motion detection as so often I have thought it would be so handy when you just run into the garage for something for a quick in and out and it would be nice no to go to one or two different light switch location (man do I sound LAZY!!LOL). If you go in once for a quick in and out, if our anything like me it will turn into 3-4 times!


Bobby,
You are of course right with the measurements, and it will be 28" deep. I don't plan on heating the garage full time so that type of heat source would not be good as heating up that much concrete would take to long at 20F. I have almost ruled it out, but if you don't mind telling me more (boiler cost, heat all winter?, propane cost per yr.,) it will allow me to re-evaluate with good solid info.



Jack,

The garage is so close to the house I will be using a cordless phone and wifi will easily be within range. I have attached my property diagram so it may help in putting things into perspective. In the shed that presently exists I have a 100 amp sub-panel. I can't see any big demands for electricity. I have a small stick welder, the car lift and the electric hoist that will be used individually. Should be ok..right? I must admit that I have not even considered or even know what smart switches are. It would be awesome to be a little more tech savvy. You can control a garage door without buying an extra door opener and leaving it on the kitchen window sil??



Thanks for the great insights!! I am taking note and revising and looking into other suggestions.

Kent