Garage security system

[arjog]

Hey guys,

I am wanting to extend the security system in my house into my detached garage. I have a wireless ADT system which I can add additional wireless sensors to. My initial thought was that I just wanted to add a single wireless motion detector to the garage as it would cover the whole garage. However when I called ADT, they said that motion detectors don't really work in detached garages that aren't climate controlled year round as you get a lot of false alarms. So that leaves me with installing sensors on all of the doors and windows. What do you guys think? Is what ADT told me true? To me it seems like you would have decreased sensitivity when it reaches high temperatures, but I don't really understand the false alarms. I'd rather go with the motion detector, but if I have to I can go with the other sensors. I'd appreciate any insight. Thanks,

Andy

 

[JMURiz]

Sounds like you need to fully climate control your garage
I'd believe what the system rep says, how many doors/windows do you have?

 

[bluesman2a]

Yep. They are shooting straight with you. I had the same issue, daytime temps here hover in the 90's to low-100's inside closed buildings.

You only serious option as I see it would be contacts on all the doors/windows. If you have lots of windows you could do a glass-break, but they are more expensive than the wireless switches.

 

[arjog]

Alright, then I'll go with the door/window sensors. I only have two windows, a man door and the garage door, so it's only 4 sensors. I just thought that the motion detector made more sense, but I guess not in this situation. But now I won't be protected if someone goes all mission impossible and cuts a hole in my roof to rappel through... Thanks guys. I'll give ADT a call tonight.

Andy

 

[Stuart in MN]

Think about also putting in a rate-of-temperature-rise detector, to protect against fires. A regular smoke detector like you use in the house isn't a good idea for a garage, as it can get false readings from car exhaust or dust from when you're working out there. The temp sensor will detect if the temperature is rising much faster than normal, which would indicate a fire.

Also, as far as breakins go, even if someone cut a hole in the roof they'll most likely open a door (and set off the alarm) when they try to carry out the stolen goods.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Hey guys,

I am wanting to extend the security system in my house into my detached garage. I have a wireless ADT system which I can add additional wireless sensors to. My initial thought was that I just wanted to add a single wireless motion detector to the garage as it would cover the whole garage. However when I called ADT, they said that motion detectors don't really work in detached garages that aren't climate controlled year round as you get a lot of false alarms. So that leaves me with installing sensors on all of the doors and windows. What do you guys think? Is what ADT told me true? To me it seems like you would have decreased sensitivity when it reaches high temperatures, but I don't really understand the false alarms. I'd rather go with the motion detector, but if I have to I can go with the other sensors. I'd appreciate any insight. Thanks,

Andy

I wish I had responded before you called them. I have the exact situation you described at my place. My garage is detached from the house by 70 feet. I had a wireless system installed since our house is an old lath and plaster from the 1920's. I had one motion detector set in a corner of my garage so that anyone entering would get busted. I had the system installed almost 10yrs ago and it performs flawlessly, temperature extremes of Kansas have no effect at all on the system. In fact, I thought that it might malfunction, especially in bitter cold weather, so I tested the system to see if it would still work and it works perfect at and below zero degrees. The motion sensor works just as well at 100 or better cause I tried that too! So unless your situation is somehow different than mine I think they fed you a line of ****!

PS. It is hard for me to belive the equipment they install in homes/garages today cannot do what systems going on 10yrs old can do, also I did not add any door or window sensors, one motion detector does just fine for my double garage!

 

[kbs2244]

Garage security system

1. Go to a second-hand store and buy a pair of men's used Work boots size 14-16.

2. Place them around a chair by the door to your garage, along with several empty beer cans, a copy of Guns & Ammo magazine and several NRA magazines.

3. Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazines.

4. Leave a note on your door that reads:
"Hey Bubba: Big Jim, Duke and Slim, I went to the
Gun shop for more ammunition. Back in an hour. Don't mess With the pit bulls -- they attacked the mailman this morning And messed him up real bad. I don't think Killer took part In it, but it was hard to tell from all the blood.

PS - I locked all four of 'em in the garage.


On the serious side. sensor technology has improved a whole lot in the last 2 years. They have micoprocessors in them now and can be programed for a specific building and weather conditions. It sounds to me like your ADT people don't want to sell you the latest and greatest for some reason.

 

[el gringo]

The security company that I talked with yesterday (local independent, not ADT) said the same thing: motion sensors don't work well in detached garages. They said that the temperature swings cause problems with the circuitry, and they also sometimes have trouble with insects. Maybe they just make more money selling me two door sensors instead of one door plus a motion (which is what I want), but I doubt it. As far as modern circuitry being better than 10 year old, I doubt that as well. Everything today is made as cheaply as possible, so I imagine the circuit boards are more fragile. They're doing the quote tomorrow, I'll see if I can find any more details.

 

[nasprouse]

Here is another option / opinion. Most places will not recommend a "motion detector" for the garage. One of the main reasons is when they say "motion detector" they are referring to Passive Infrared (PIR) sensors. They are the most prevalent technology out there. Notice I said most prevalent, not best. The alarm industry is governed by two things money and false alarms. The only reason false alarms are one of the two on the list is a false alarm also equals money. PIR’s are cheap and effective. They are also low power which is a benefit for due to the abundance of wireless systems. The temperature swings affect PIR's because they detect humans from the heat they generate. Temperature swings, sunlight, drafts, and hot machinery/cars can all cause false alarms. Other technologies are not as vulnerable to those problems. Microwave is one of those. There are also combinations of detection technologies in one sensor. The name for this is dual technologies or dual tech. In the type both technologies inside must detect the intruder. Example PIR + Microwave = Alarm. Dual PIR/Microwave is the most common. There are also quads, but they are mostly four PIR sensors in one box. PIR1+PIR2+PIR3+PIR4 = Alarm

Here is a link to a Dual that should work with your panel (ADT uses Honeywell/Ademco alarm panels):

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1133

There are also outdoor PIR's:

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductList.asp?p=2_1_1_1_0_0_195

Here is a forum where you can read more about DIY alarm installs:

http://forum.homesecuritystore.com/

Here is some more info on PIR's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_infrared_sensors

Hope this helps.

Neal

*I do not have any connection with the above company/forum, they are just an easy place to link to

 

[Uncle Buck]

Here is another option / opinion. Most places will not recommend a "motion detector" for the garage. One of the main reasons is when they say "motion detector" they are referring to Passive Infrared (PIR) sensors. They are the most prevalent technology out there. Notice I said most prevalent, not best. The alarm industry is governed by two things money and false alarms. The only reason false alarms are one of the two on the list is a false alarm also equals money. PIR’s are cheap and effective. They are also low power which is a benefit for due to the abundance of wireless systems. The temperature swings affect PIR's because they detect humans from the heat they generate. Temperature swings, sunlight, drafts, and hot machinery/cars can all cause false alarms. Other technologies are not as vulnerable to those problems. Microwave is one of those. There are also combinations of detection technologies in one sensor. The name for this is dual technologies or dual tech. In the type both technologies inside must detect the intruder. Example PIR + Microwave = Alarm. Dual PIR/Microwave is the most common. There are also quads, but they are mostly four PIR sensors in one box. PIR1+PIR2+PIR3+PIR4 = Alarm

Here is a link to a Dual that should work with your panel (ADT uses Honeywell/Ademco alarm panels):

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1133

There are also outdoor PIR's:

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductList.asp?p=2_1_1_1_0_0_195

Here is a forum where you can read more about DIY alarm installs:

http://forum.homesecuritystore.com/

Here is some more info on PIR's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_infrared_sensors

Hope this helps.

Neal

*I do not have any connection with the above company/forum, they are just an easy place to link to

All this sounds real good, but it fails to explain why my system as I described above has always performed flawlessly, not one false alarm, and temperature extremes have no effect whatsoever on my system. I need to add that I got the no frills special from Protection One here in Topeka. The only thing I paid for when I had the system installed were two keyfob clickers to arm and disarm the system conveniently for the wife and I. The basic system was installed for nothing. I agreed to a monthly service fee for a couple of years so the monthly service is what paid for the system. The bottom line is my heapie cheapie freeby system does what the experts are telling this guy a system cannot! The only thing that tells me is that he is being pumped full of BS!

 

[Dave Carney]

I have a Visonic Power max that allows for self monitor or company monitor. I've extended it to the barn with no ill effects. No climate control. Run motion, door, window, glass breaks, everything. All I had to do was install a range extender. Base system is not expensive but it adds up quickly as you add more toys. It's absolutely flawless though. No falsing.

 

[kbs2244]

hholmberg:
You are giving the reasons to go with a local guy that knows both the type of customers he has, and the kind of things and the kind of buildings they want to protect.
Most likely you have a dual tech sensor and don't know it. He never told you because there is no need to confuse the customer with too much detail.
I spite of what ADT is saying, this project is very doable. You just need the right guy.

 

[nasprouse]

hholmberg:

I am not disagreeing with you. Just trying to explain why the alarm companies are saying not to put one in. I made a recomdation for a for sensor that should work well for his application. I am glad you have not had any false alarms, with a good install you should not. By using a dual tech he should decrease the possiblities of a false.

If your motion detector has a green, yellow, and red light it is probably a dual tech.

kbs2244:

Thanks. This is exactly what I was trying to say. Beat me to it.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Sounds good to me!