Garage shelf design - am I missing something?

[FuzzyTiger]

So a friend built some garage shelves recently and they were showing them off to me. And I suggested that they add some reinforcements to strengthen the structure. They mentioned that they had just been following tutorials online and everyone was building their shelving that way.

So I googled it and they're right. Pretty much every design I can find online is building them the same way.

The design I take issue with (not sure why I can't embed the image):
https://imgur.com/n8tbaMN

My immediate thought is that all the load is being carried by the fasteners on the 3 vertical 2x4's. Most likely they're screws too which are weaker to shearing forces than nails. Not that I think a nail is the right choice here.

My suggestion was to add some vertical reinforcement behind the vertical 2x4's so the frame of each shelf rests on them. Also add similar supports in the back against the wall. That way the weight is all being carried by the structure rather than the fasteners. Essentially approaching it the same way that you'd frame a wall (window/door opening specifically I suppose).

The only reason I can see for doing it the way in the design is to save having to make a few more cuts of wood and maybe a few dollars in additional lumber? But the extra time and expense are both pretty minimal and you should end up with shelves that can carry probably at least an order of magnitude more weight.

So which is it? Am I just wrong or missing something?

 

[rsparks64]

Not my expertise but those cleats the shelf are resting on would be fairly strong if they are attached to the 2 x 4s deep to the wall. I am not sure about the weight load, but they look easy and reasonably sturdy for most home use.

 

[Dustball]

Screws are perfectly fine- ideally they'll be construction screws or better. Even better would be a through bolt at each connection but they're not really needed.

My parents have built similar shelving and they're doing fine after 37 years. I've built similar as well with zero issues using screws.

 

[XJSuperman]

Also not an expert, but that looks fine to me, as long as you used good hardware and aren't dropping engines on the shelves. Being conscious about what you place on a shelf is something you have to do with any design. At a certain point you transition from a design like you linked to, to free standing pallet rack.

 

[u2slow]

I build shelves like that too. So far so good.

If I run into strength issues, I'll be placing short lengths of 2x4 vertically between the shelves against the wall.

 

[ssdave]

....

 

[wssix99]

My immediate thought is that all the load is being carried by the fasteners on the 3 vertical 2x4's.

That design does rely on the fasteners to carry all the load through shear. If drywall screws are concerning for what you plan to load the shelves with, you can get bigger/stronger screws. (Good manufacturers will give you these strengths.)

The cleats on the wall are mounted the same way. So, no worry on building this design. Adding blocking to the front supports doesn't get you much. If you envision the wall without drywall, your cleats against the wall are attached to the studs the same way as the front supports in the design.

Personally, I like rack shelving that stands completely on the floor. It is more expensive, but it's easy to assemble, adjustable, and can move with you.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Simple solution and this will hold as much weight as the flat shelf can hold (use 3/4" plywood, not OSB) !

Behind the vertical 2x4, place a second 2x4 that fits snugly between the horizontal 2x4 and the shelf below. Nail/screw/glue to the front vertical 2x4. You have effectively made those verticals into 4x4 with the horizontal "notched in". This is the strongest thing you can do. The fasteners no longer carry the load in the front. I would use a 2x6 for the ledger on the wall.

Don't forget to add a little block under the bottom horizontal 2x4.

 

[BombShelter]

I go overboard, it's not much more and if you have heavy stuff like me, it's worth it. This is a bad drawing because everything looks 3/4", there's no mention of cross-members and the shelves look like pressboard.

For a garage, I'd have a sacrificial piece of 2 x 4 under the vertical supports, garage floors get wet and the bottom of the supports wicks up water and rots the wood. Changing the base-piece is easy when it starts rotting.

For all of the work cutting, screwing and assembling, I've moved on to Menards Shelving a-la-carte, you can buy different depths, heights and shelving material. For a little over $100 you have the entire unit that's easily added on to and they have a ton of options including work desk. The only drawback is the ugly tan color but they'd be easy to paint.

I just noticed your in Canada, Menards sells a lot of Mastercraft Products, I think they share a lot of product lines with Princess Auto? Xtreme Garage (Menard's Trademark) is the brand name, I don't know if they ship up there.

If you want to spruce it up, it would be easy to "face-frame" it to make it look like wood construction but I like the metal and wire look.

 

[Paul_The_Builder]

How much weight do people really put on their shelves?

Half of suburban garages have plastic shelves that probably can't safely hold more than 50lbs per shelf.

What's the shear strength of a drywall screw? 300lbs? Presumably you'd have 2 or 3 screws per 2x4, so you can do like 500lbs per 2' section? Who is going to exceed 500 lbs per 2x4 span? Someone storing a wall full of iron engine blocks?

 

[Joemctag]

I agree with your thinking. I have climbed on my own shelves at one time or another and I weigh 220 lbs. ( 100 kg.) If my stuff fails, there will be wood splintering and cracking. It will not be the connections that fail. But that’s just me.

 

[Dustball]

The wall cleat if well fastened will hold a lot of weight, and it carries half the weight put on the shelf. The front, has a capacity of about 150 pounds per upright per shelf, assuming 2 drywall screws with a shear of about 75 pounds. No factor of safety on that, but will probably work okay for most things. Most people wouldn't load a shelf with 900 pounds, at most I'd think 150 to 200. There's a slight additional capacity in the friction between the shelf and the upright, if the screws snug them up well.

You're way underestimating how much screws can hold. Project Farm did a test on shear strength of screws vs nails and screws won very handily.

1000 lbs for two screws vs 400 lbs for two nails.

 

[ssdave]

.....

 

[Innovate1]

I have built quite a few. I use 3 verticals in 8 feet rather than 12 feet so a bit stronger. Two 2-1/2" drywall screws at each joint. Some with legs on both sides. Some supported by a wall on one side. Used some diagonal braces if free standing. Very strong. Never had an issue. I had been thinking construction screws would be better but the linked video says drywall screws are the strongest. I make them 2' deep and use 7/16 OSB. Seems good for most things including boxes of books and other fairly heavy stuff. If you are really worried you could put in blocking so the weight isn't all on the screws but it seems like overkill for most uses.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

OP, I think you're over thinking it unless the shelves need to carry multiple hundreds of pounds each.

 

[Innovate1]

I don't do video's, so I haven't seen what they do in the one you referenced, or what they used that gave them 500 pounds in shear. I took the 75 as somewhat conservative, the test values I have are 87 pounds for a standard 1 1/8" drywall screw in direct shear. That was a building science test and published design data, not a you-tube clickbait thing. There are much higher strength screws that a person can use, I specify them all the time, and usually their design shear strength is in the 300 pound range. I used the value for standard drywall screw, as the limiting thing that a person would likely hae around the house.

That bears well with my experience, I can readily break them; if I put two an inch apart in a board, and twist it, one shears almost without effort.

If you bought the 500 pound screws like the video had, the wood would likely fail in crushing at the screw bearing location before the screws did. That's how nails usually fail, and then pull out as they bend downwards and the force becomes a pulling force.

A 1-1/8" screw is a really poor choice for the OPs application. It won't even reach through the first 2 x 4 so the shear force would be zero! You have a point that the video data should be verified though. Drywall screws are brittle so they fail catastrophically by breaking rather than deforming. Their strength may be more than other construction screws but can't take shock - at least that's my take on it but not thoroughly researched. I used #8 x 2-1/2 drywall screws and haven't had any issues. I suspect construction screws of a similar size would be a better choice.

 

[PhantomEB]

I see nothing wrong as far as design goes.

Myself I would cap off the ends as well stagger the joints of the shelves side to side.

 

[driftpin]

I like the Whirlpool/Gladiator shelving units, they come in different widths and depths. They're free-standing, so they can be moved if you want. The largest ones I have are ~5' W x 6' H x 18" deep. 2,000 lbs per shelf. I use a piece of masonite on the wire shelf surface to make it easier to hold things, and to move things on the shelf. Here is their bigger unit:
https://www.overstock.com/Home-Gard...Shelves/18084513/product.html?option=30157872

The manufacturer's website:
https://www.gladiatorgarageworks.co...1Q8kpqJTlVRLoOldgsYyp-pousuBMfAYaAvkPEALw_wcB

 

[nadogail]

If in doubt, build it stout. Well built shelves don't cost much more than marginally built ones.

 

[ssdave]

.....

 

[APEowner]

The OP is correct in that adding some vertical lumber between the shelves would increase the strength but a #8 Spax construction screw has a shear strength of 369 lbs so for most applications the added strength isn't necessary.

Don't use drywall screws in an application like this.

 

[theoldwizard1]

No self-respecting carpenter would rely on nails or (typical) screws, in shear, for ANY load carrying application. Certainly NOT drywall screws !

"Structural" screws (like SPAX) really have not been common for that many years. I think most "joist hangers" specify "structural" (not common) nails or screws.

 

[Superwilly]

OP, that is almost exactly how I build garage shelves, except I cap off end of each shelf, and have cross members every 24" or so... If using 2x4's for horizontal shelf framing, and 2 or 3 #10 deck screws every place the back cleat intersects a stud... Oh my goodness, each shelf will probably support 1000 lbs. It's a fantastic design, minimal contruction with great performance.

Note: I've seen many shelf designs that use way more wood than required, with less performance... I always think back to the design you posted, and tell people about it.

 

[rayra]

OP needs to go build some shelves. It isn't rocket science nor does it require an engineering degree or scientific inquiry.

There is no single or objective argument that applies and he's wrong to try and do so. It also makes me wonder what if anything he's actually built, to be trotting out this ridiculous topic.

Sure, should not rely on shear strength of crappy fasteners. Structural screws, lag bolts and the like will MORE than do the job, particularly in a residential / hobby environment.
A better supported design would be better. But the design related is commonly used without any trouble at all.

 

[bob15]

I would look at these Knape & Vogt shelves. Screw the standards into studs and it will give you plenty of options for heights and nothing in the front to get in your way. You can get shelf depths to 24" deep and a 450 pound rating.

I started using them several years ago and have grown quite fond of them for flexibility and ease of installing them.

https://www.knapeandvogt.com/82182-series

 

[Dustball]

I don't do video's, so I haven't seen what they do in the one you referenced, or what they used that gave them 500 pounds in shear. I took the 75 as somewhat conservative, the test values I have are 87 pounds for a standard 1 1/8" drywall screw in direct shear. That was a building science test and published design data, not a you-tube clickbait thing. There are much higher strength screws that a person can use, I specify them all the time, and usually their design shear strength is in the 300 pound range. I used the value for standard drywall screw, as the limiting thing that a person would likely hae around the house.

That bears well with my experience, I can readily break them; if I put two an inch apart in a board, and twist it, one shears almost without effort.

If you bought the 500 pound screws like the video had, the wood would likely fail in crushing at the screw bearing location before the screws did. That's how nails usually fail, and then pull out as they bend downwards and the force becomes a pulling force.

Do yourself a favor and watch the video.

In his separation of two board held together with two fasteners test- the failures was from the fasteners pulling out of the wood and in every case, the screws held on longer than nails did. His two board separation test is pretty much exactly how the shelving unit is constructed.

The shelving design OP posted is 2x4s, not 1x2s.

 

[ssdave]

....

 

[Moss]

It's not an awesome way to build them but it's quick and low cost. I built four free standing ones like that for barn storage many years ago. They were so fast to build and I've never had any issues. One shelf even has had a couple bundles of shingles on it for years. I Just used normal deck screws.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[BigGarage]

So which is it? Am I just wrong or missing something?

You aren't missing anything, those shelves ain't worth two dead flies.

Here's how to build a shelf to support more than toilet paper. These are mine.

I got your pic to load, it was too big for a png so I made it smaller and a jpeg.

Dennis

 

[mmb617]

Everything depends on what you intend to put on the shelves. I'm sure that construction would be fine for light to moderate loads. When I build any kind of shelving for the garage I assume it might be required to hold substantial weight at some point so I generally use angle iron as my framing, but that's just me.

 

[niget2002]

Everything depends on what you intend to put on the shelves. I'm sure that construction would be fine for light to moderate loads. When I build any kind of shelving for the garage I assume it might be required to hold substantial weight at some point so I generally use angle iron as my framing, but that's just me.

I always assume my kid will try to climb to the top to get something.

In fact, I put my kid on the last one I built to help hold a 2x4 while I screwed it to the wall.

I have never built a bench or shelf I wouldn't feel comfortable climbing on if needed.

I use construction grade wood screws, not drywall, for all the reasons stated previously.

 

[lilredex]

I have had good results from wall hanging shelves too, with commonly available metal shelving.

 

[earl84]

I built mine like the OP showed. Used GRK fasteners. I am away from home right now, but the packaging on #8 has the shear strength of 1 screw at some insane number, like 1,000 lbs. I feel pretty comfortable that 2 or 3 of those in each vertical 2 x4 will hold more weight than I can put on them. If I needed to hold engine blocks, I wouldn’t build this way, but for general storage of camping gear, Christmas decorations and tools, I have no fear of failure. None.

 

[My Old Tools]

How much weight do people really put on their shelves?

Half of suburban garages have plastic shelves that probably can't safely hold more than 50lbs per shelf.

What's the shear strength of a drywall screw? 300lbs? Presumably you'd have 2 or 3 screws per 2x4, so you can do like 500lbs per 2' section? Who is going to exceed 500 lbs per 2x4 span? Someone storing a wall full of iron engine blocks?

I bent a Gorilla shelf stacking vises on it.....

 

[firebirdparts]

My suggestion was to add some vertical reinforcement behind the vertical 2x4's so the frame of each shelf rests on them. Also add similar supports in the back against the wall. That way the weight is all being carried by the structure rather than the fasteners. Essentially approaching it the same way that you'd frame a wall (window/door opening specifically I suppose).

I'm with you. I built shelves just like this when I bought my house in 1990. I did it because it's the cheapest option for that size stuff. And, like you, I thought "why would I not" put a 2 by 4 block on the backside of that leg. And I did. I mean, why not?

P.S. you won't catch me saying "I won't be storing engine blocks" on GJ. I will be.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I built these 20 years ago, that’s a good time test and used nails, remember them. I have been using 2 x 6’s on the flat and it saves 2 1/2” between shelves and can span 6’ without support. Either way is fine but if you’re going 4 shelves high you can pick up 10” using 2 x 6’s, that’s another shelf.

 

[Renegade1LI]

By using 2 x 6’s I picked up 12 1/2” over using 2 x4’s with plywood

 

[Firebrick43]

No self-respecting carpenter would rely on nails or (typical) screws, in shear, for ANY load carrying application. Certainly NOT drywall screws !

"Structural" screws (like SPAX) really have not been common for that many years. I think most "joist hangers" specify "structural" (not common) nails or screws.

15-20 years is quite a few, and they were available before that just not on the shelf of the big box stores.

As for joist hangers, Simpson strong tie and Midwest (the biggest two players in structural hardware) both have rated screws to use with their hardware.

https://www.strongtie.com/strongdrive_exteriorwoodscrews/sd_screw/p/strong-drive-sd-connector-screw