I have a shop that is 18' wide, I'd like to install a shelf across the back of it across the entire width that I'll use for storage. It would only be about 4' deep. I am thinking about running 9 1/2" LVL beams across the width, but struggling to understand just how much weight each LVL could support. I will likely double or even triple them up. I don't want to under build it. But yet I'm not sure how much weight 2 of them would support. Anybody have any idea?
Garage storage shelf - using LVL beams
- Thread starter rwgust
- Start date
Jon_E
Well-known member
Any chance you could put a support post in the middle?
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
First, Google for "joist span tables"
Second, I can't say I have seen 1/2" LVL beams. The narrowest I have seen are 1-3/4". They typically do not double them, they just use a taller LVL and/or space them closer together (12" O.C. instead of 16" O.C.). Any lumber yard will help you with waht you need.
You need to know your LIVE load (how much is going to be stored on this shelf/floor).
Last, this type of shelf/floor MUST be supported down to the foundation. Do NOT just lag a ledger board to the walls and then hang the joists.
Second, I can't say I have seen 1/2" LVL beams. The narrowest I have seen are 1-3/4". They typically do not double them, they just use a taller LVL and/or space them closer together (12" O.C. instead of 16" O.C.). Any lumber yard will help you with waht you need.
You need to know your LIVE load (how much is going to be stored on this shelf/floor).
Last, this type of shelf/floor MUST be supported down to the foundation. Do NOT just lag a ledger board to the walls and then hang the joists.
Strouty
Well-known member
He was talking about 9 and a half inch tall LVLs, no specification on width, but I am betting they are standard width.
NitroGarage
Well-known member
Ask the place you are purchasing the beams from for a flier on their capacities, they should be able to give a lbs plf per linear foot measurement on them.
NitroGarage
Well-known member
Wizard hit all of the nails on the head with one post - answer us those questions three.
Strouty
Well-known member
So you have 1/2 in wide LVLs or 9 1/2" wide LVLs? The confusing part to me was you asked how much two (2) of them would support?
Strouty
Well-known member
Again, are there NINE 1/2" wide boards or 9 1/2" wide boards?
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
http://www.woodbywy.com/trus-joist/microllam-lvl-beams/
Standard width is 1-3/4". I believe OP is referring to depth of 9-1/2".
Standard width is 1-3/4". I believe OP is referring to depth of 9-1/2".
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NitroGarage
Well-known member
Are you confusing width with height?
Who's on first?
Who's on first?
Strouty
Well-known member
If they are laying on their long side, they could be 1.75" tall by 9.5" wide. 
maxpower_hd
Well-known member
I am quite sure the OP is talking about 1 3/4" x 9 1/2" LVL 18' long and is looking for load data for each one.
The lumber yard can and will most certainly answer your questions easily. They have all the spec sheets for the ones they carry. Each brand is a little different so that is really the only way to know for sure. But the ones I looked up listed 60 Lb PLF live load and 85 Lb PLF total load.
The lumber yard can and will most certainly answer your questions easily. They have all the spec sheets for the ones they carry. Each brand is a little different so that is really the only way to know for sure. But the ones I looked up listed 60 Lb PLF live load and 85 Lb PLF total load.
NitroGarage
Well-known member
What kind of storage? Heavy storage for engine blocks and rear ends or holiday?
Radix2
Well-known member
Rwgust - I have the software to calculate the load deflection, etc for lvls.
Let's start with what and how you want to specify "how much can it hold" - for normal floors, it is specified by pounds per square foot - any idea? A normal floor would be like 40psf- that would give you about 2900lbs over a 4x18 space- sound right? Have any super heavy stuff you want to store?
Next- how are you going to build it? With a ledger that holds the wallside attached to the Wall? So the lvls only hold up the open span side?
Let me know your plans and I will give you the results for 9.5 lvls at that span.
Let's start with what and how you want to specify "how much can it hold" - for normal floors, it is specified by pounds per square foot - any idea? A normal floor would be like 40psf- that would give you about 2900lbs over a 4x18 space- sound right? Have any super heavy stuff you want to store?
Next- how are you going to build it? With a ledger that holds the wallside attached to the Wall? So the lvls only hold up the open span side?
Let me know your plans and I will give you the results for 9.5 lvls at that span.
My lumber yard stocks 9.5" LVL material, they have in 48' lengths and just cut to your size. I was going to build the whole shelf using material. I'm not planning anything specifically heavy but i'm sure over time I'll fill it up. So was just wondering what my limit would be. Based on responses, sounds like an approx weight would be about 2,000 lbs or so. I was going to fasten the 4' boards on the walls (each would connect to 3 stubs) and then I would attach the 18' boards via joist hangers.
When you say it would need bracing every 24" oc, that confuses me, but maybe by looking at my picture you'll be able to better see what I had in mind
When you say it would need bracing every 24" oc, that confuses me, but maybe by looking at my picture you'll be able to better see what I had in mind
Attachments
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
FWIW, If there's the possibility of placing a great deal of weight on this shelf, I would suggest running the outer doubled LVL's into the wall at each end with a post under them to the bottom plate.
I believe the post regarding 'bracing' is referring to 'blocking' between the LVL's to prevent rotation, although I don't see that as an issue in your application.
Also note that the strength axis in plywood is the direction of the wood grain in the face and back of the panel. As an example the strength axis of 3/4" DF plywood is 185 psf with the supports perpendicular to the strength axis, whereas it's only 65 psf with the supports parallel to the strength axis.
In other words, it would be best to cut your plywood to 4' lengths, running the grain in the 4' (front to back) direction.
jbwilkins
Well-known member
If you're talking about using the LVL's as the shelf, understand they are not designed for this. I doubt there is much data for them used this way(if any at all).....they are designed to be loaded from the top(1 3/4").....
bczygan
Well-known member
What you show would support 5,400 pounds. Is that what you need?
A better design would be to decide what you will be using it for first. So tell us that.
And your design is not the best way to build that. You will need special LVL hangers and still need lateral support.
What is the structure you are building this in? Photos please. And what are the heights involved?
A typical mezzanine will have a beam in the front and a ledger beam in the back and joists running between the two.
Let's say you wanted to store heavier than normal stuff than a residential floor will support. Residential floors are usually 40#/SF LL. So let's use 50#/SF LL. This will mean it will support 3,600 pounds of uniformly distributed live load. DL of 15#/SF.
Start with the deck material. Use 3/4" T&G plywood screwed and glued with solid blocking at any joints.
Space your joists at 16"o.c. Using an L/360 and #2 and better Hem-fir. 2x4's will span 5'4". So let's use 2x6's just to have better lateral support for the beams. Use joist hangers on the sides of the beams.
Now the beam.
The contributing area for the beam is 2SF/LF or 130#/LF total load. For an 18' span, and 1.9E LVL's, a double 1 3/4 x 9 1/4 LVL beam will support 110#/LF LL at L/360 and and 156#/LF total load. Support at both ends.
The ledger beam.
Lag bolt this into every stud but also support it at both ends and the middle with 2x's lagged into studs on the flat. The same loads apply but the span is half. A 2x8 will support 140#/LF, so will be adequate.
3 sheets of 3/4" T&G Ply.
8 2x6x8's
Joist hangers
1 2x8x18
2 1 3/4 x 9 1/4 (or 9 1/2) LVL's
Understand?
http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standards/publications/wsdd/AWC-WSDD1986-ViewOnly-0301.pdf
http://www.awc.org/codes-standards/calculators-software/spancalc
http://parr.com/PDFs/LP%20LVL%201.9E.pdf
Bill
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the shop i built this summer is a 18x24 shop, built on a 8" wide concrete foundation that is 4' in the ground, then built using 2x6 lumber. Looking now to add the main storage area, thinking 2500 lbs at the most. Originally I was thinking of cutting into the drywall and adding supports and resting 2 LVLs into the wall and rest on the supports, but that would require opening up the finished walls. So I this design had crossed my mind, as I could build without cutting into drywall, i could simply build right overtop. In my mind, I was trying to design without having to have a support beam in the middle, although that still isn't out of the question. I really appreciate the feedback I'm receiving, it definitely helps as I'm thinking through this
Attachments
bczygan
Well-known member
Look at the solution I engineered for you above. or use the files and calculator to design your own. Supports in the walls or on their face doesn't matter but I don't like lagging without supports under beams. Clear span is easy to do here.
Bill
bczygan
Well-known member
2,500# is 35#/SF LL.
Using that and 10#/SF DL, you would still need to use 2x6 joists, the 2x8 ledger and the double 9 1/4" deep LVL beam.
Opening up the walls for supporting the beams is not a big deal and gives a much cleaner install, with only one 2x4 on the face in the middle of the ledger. You may be able to eliminate that one if you lag into every stud. I just haven't done the calc.
Understand?
Bill (Designer)
Using that and 10#/SF DL, you would still need to use 2x6 joists, the 2x8 ledger and the double 9 1/4" deep LVL beam.
Opening up the walls for supporting the beams is not a big deal and gives a much cleaner install, with only one 2x4 on the face in the middle of the ledger. You may be able to eliminate that one if you lag into every stud. I just haven't done the calc.
Understand?
Bill (Designer)
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I have read through your posts several times now and I'm not 100% sure that I'm following you, I'm admittedly not very experienced with this sort of thing, I don't know if there's anyway you can attach a drawing or a picture that might help a lay out your design a little better for someone like me do you understand?
bczygan
Well-known member
It's simple.
Take your drawing. Eliminate the 2 long beams in the center. Eliminate the 2 short beams at each end.
Now you have a double beam in the front and a single beam at the back.
Support the double front one at each end with a post. 2x4 will do.
Support the single one in back at both ends and the middle and lag it to the wall.
Lag the support posts to the wall, all 5 of them, and/or enclose them in the wall.
Run your 2x6 joists, spaced at 16" on center, between the front and rear beams using joist hangers at each end of each joist.
Don't forget to fasten the two LVL plys together in an approved manner.
The front double LVL beam is clear span. The rear 2x8 ledger beam is supported in the middle which cuts the span in half and allows that smaller member to be used. It is also lagged into the studs in that wall and supported by 2x4's laid flat against, and lagged into the wall.
Got it now?
Bill
Take your drawing. Eliminate the 2 long beams in the center. Eliminate the 2 short beams at each end.
Now you have a double beam in the front and a single beam at the back.
Support the double front one at each end with a post. 2x4 will do.
Support the single one in back at both ends and the middle and lag it to the wall.
Lag the support posts to the wall, all 5 of them, and/or enclose them in the wall.
Run your 2x6 joists, spaced at 16" on center, between the front and rear beams using joist hangers at each end of each joist.
Don't forget to fasten the two LVL plys together in an approved manner.
The front double LVL beam is clear span. The rear 2x8 ledger beam is supported in the middle which cuts the span in half and allows that smaller member to be used. It is also lagged into the studs in that wall and supported by 2x4's laid flat against, and lagged into the wall.
Got it now?
Bill
[QUOTE
When you say it would need bracing every 24" oc, that confuses me, but maybe by looking at my picture you'll be able to better see what I had in mind[/QUOTE]
Add some blocking between the LVLs so they dont twist. It will help share the load too.
When you say it would need bracing every 24" oc, that confuses me, but maybe by looking at my picture you'll be able to better see what I had in mind[/QUOTE]
Add some blocking between the LVLs so they dont twist. It will help share the load too.