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Garage Trench Drain

sennister

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Nov 30, 2013
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Twin Cities, MN
We are building a new attached garage and working out some of the final items before breaking ground once the ground thaws.

We have discussed with the building inspector for our town when he stopped out to close out a permit on new windows about options for a floor drain in this area. He said we are fine as long as it drains to daylight. I am fine with that. We are not washing cars in the garage or anything with a lot of volume but mainly it will be snow melt.

The garage is 30x40, 3 car with 3 single 9' garage doors with in floor heat. We originally were thinking of centering two floor drains kind of like what I have in the pole barn. I am having the floor prepped for a 2 post in the middle bay and I got thinking that these traditional drains and slope to them might be problematic with a 2 post. In talking and looking around at options I saw some people do a trench drain near the garage door and slope the slab toward that. I spoke to the CFO (Wife) and she liked that idea as well.

Doing some searching and I see a lot of people mention this type of drain and say they are very expensive. I assume they are talking labor on setting these up. Is that the case? Sure compared to a simple floor drain the trench by % is a big cost jump but in terms of the overall garage build $400 in drains is a drop in the bucket and I think worth it. Even if it added $1000 to the project factoring in labor and supplies that is still under 1% of what we are doing.

On to my main questions. If I went with a product like this. Not 100% sold on this one but they are all pretty similar.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07932MZS7/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I am thinking two sections per door. So if I went with this one, buy the 5 pack and a single pack. This would provide 6.5' of drain per door. I would probably have a single exit, can I daisy chain them together and maybe do a sand trap at the end? Maybe skip the sand trap as there isn't going to be much going down there. I am thinking of changing the discharge so that it comes out the South East corner of the building right next to last garage door so the discharge pipe would be 4' at most. I have a pressure washer and will have water in the garage to where I could blast them out in the spring. I have read that people state they let a lot of cold air in during the winter months, again short run so I could put a trap in the pipe before exit and probably could blast away any sand that makes it down there with a hose or pressure washer.

As I mentioned I have a single drain in the pole barn now that is a sand trap. I clean it out maybe every other year and there isn't much in it. Though I only park one vehicle in there and push melted snow and ice toward the drain. The big difference is the slab isn't heated in there so it carries more sediment to the drain. The exit is also a lot further away.
 
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fiataccompli

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I'll watch with interest here. I'm considering a product like this in two spots for my garage/driveway...one in front of the garage (also picking up some french drain collection from the far side of the garage) and one in the existing driveway where the concrete pour miserably failed hitting the home-made trench grates so I have to have about 1.5" of ponded water before they drain.
 

maxpat82

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Dec 9, 2012
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275
Why not go full lenght of the front of the garage?

doing the slope for 6,5' of drain per bay would be the worst part to me.

I doubt those kinda drain are what is use in a concrete slab. They are more suited to asphalt work..
garage trench drain are usually all concrete.

ps.: Give a good though about 10' wide door...I have 2 9' (on a 28' wide garage) and I should have gone 10'
 

fiataccompli

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oh, i misunderstood...I was thinking you were talking about placing them outside the door. oops.
 

jonshonda

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I would offset the drains (biased towards front of back of garage) to accommodate the 2 post lift. We only have a 2 car with the drain the center, but I really don't like the drain in the center because I am constantly walking through water to get to my vehicle.

You could always have footings for the lift poured after the garage floor has been poured
 

cdestuck

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Altoona, Pa
I ended up installing trench drains just behind my vehicles as some water would not run to the center floor drains. Ive told others that if I'd ever build another garage that in the contract with the builder it would spell out that if water didn't run to the floor drains, the floor would be removed and repoured. With lasers it can be laid out and done. A private company here had a hanger built near here several years ago and that was in their contract. Well someone screwed up and yep, floor was ripped out and repoured.
 
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sennister

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Twin Cities, MN
Why not go full lenght of the front of the garage?

doing the slope for 6,5' of drain per bay would be the worst part to me.

I doubt those kinda drain are what is use in a concrete slab. They are more suited to asphalt work..
garage trench drain are usually all concrete.

ps.: Give a good though about 10' wide door...I have 2 9' (on a 28' wide garage) and I should have gone 10'

oh, i misunderstood...I was thinking you were talking about placing them outside the door. oops.

Yeah they are going to be on the inside. I did think about going full length. My concern about that though is that we would be looking at sloping 36' feet or so of the trench drain. In order to get enough drop over that distance for the drain to work, I didn't know if I wanted that much slope to my slab if that makes sense. If you look in places like youtube there are lots of videos explaining how to install these drains in concrete. In fact if it was outside like you were thinking and you have a blacktop driveway, they still tell you to pour a cement section for the drain. For instance for the 4" trench drain that I referenced you would have 12" minimum of cement that is at least 8" deep with the drain in the middle. This gives 4" of cement on either side of the drain. Then you can run blacktop up to it.
 
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sennister

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Twin Cities, MN
I would offset the drains (biased towards front of back of garage) to accommodate the 2 post lift. We only have a 2 car with the drain the center, but I really don't like the drain in the center because I am constantly walking through water to get to my vehicle.

You could always have footings for the lift poured after the garage floor has been poured

We are doing in floor heat. The drains we are looking at would be along the garage door so the entire slab can slope to the door where the drains are.

If we scrap the idea of trench for some reason I will likely do that.
 

maxpat82

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My concern about that though is that we would be looking at sloping 36' feet or so of the trench drain.

wait: you plan to have 3x 9' door on the 30' wall?
you can forget about that right away. that would give you like 8" between doors....that's almost not enough just for the framing stud. :|


I would prefer to have a single slope toward to front then 4 per bay!
you can have the slope very minimal
 
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sennister

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Twin Cities, MN
Why not go full lenght of the front of the garage?

ps.: Give a good though about 10' wide door...I have 2 9' (on a 28' wide garage) and I should have gone 10'

Yep, door width is more important than drains. I have three 9' doors. Guess where my F150 lives?

I guess we could revisit the door width. The 9' is a step up from 8' doors that are more common it seems. I didn't want to have to squeeze in. I get that looking at what you drive today is a mistake but I am based the 9' doors off a couple things.

Current Vehicles:
Subaru WRX: 5.91' wide
GMC Yukon Denali: 6.75' wide

Looking at future vehicles, best guess as I don't have a crystal ball.
GM full size trucks all seem to be right around that 80" mark. Towing mirrors might add to that. A 1 Ton with DRW is 96" so still doable with a 9' door. Tight but possible. Max trailer width is 102" or 8.5'.

Keep in mind this is primarily a parking garage. On property I have a detached 1.5 car garage with a 10' door, a detached 2 car garage with 8' doors and a pole barn that is insulated and heated as my shop which has a 12x12' door. The house also has a 2 car tuck under garage. 5 year plan makes that go away and it becomes living space (office or entertainment room depending on layout of basement).

Beyond parking I see this new garage as winter parking for the tractor so I don't have to go to the pole barn when I need to clear snow. As well as motorcycle parking I will likely do light vehicle work. I am not dead set on putting a 2 post lift in the garage. It might go in the pole barn. I just want to pour the footings for it now because doing it later with a heated floor is too risky and it doesn't add to the cost of the build now. The contractor didn't even factor any additional cost in fact. He said it is another two scoops with the backhoe

I could go with wider doors putting a double door in and a wider single. I didn't like doing that because of the tendency of vehicles to crowd each other when there is a double width door. Three singles adds a lot to the costs (more doors, hardware and another opener) but I like the spacing more so if the 2 post is in the middle bay. I don't want a 2 post in either of the end bays because you start to run into issues if you need to pull an axle out of a truck if you get too close to a wall or storage. In addition to the spacing between vehicles I need to maintain a certain amount of wall width between the doors. I can look this up but we are going with the Liftmaster 8500W openers that mount to the jack shaft (torsion bar) on the garage doors rather than one hanging from the ceiling. I do think we have plenty of space to do 10' doors but I would have to watch that.

Here is a sketch up of the garage. Not 100% accurate as the side access door isn't exactly in the right spot. It is more in the middle of the garage. But that is close to where I would have the discharge for the floor drain. In addition to the garage build, we are ripping the roof off an existing porch and expanding it to match the depth of the garage. It will become a mud room/laundry room.

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sennister

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Twin Cities, MN
wait: you plan to have 3x 9' door on the 30' wall?
you can forget about that right away. that would give you like 8" between doors....that's almost not enough just for the framing stud. :|


I would prefer to have a single slope toward to front then 4 per bay!
you can have the slope very minimal

No, I added the drawing. I said 36' of trench drain because the garage doors are on the 40' wall but we also have an access door there. No need for the drain there so that would make about 36' of trench drain if I went full length inside. Does that make sense?
 
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sennister

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Twin Cities, MN
wait: you plan to have 3x 9' door on the 30' wall?
you can forget about that right away. that would give you like 8" between doors....that's almost not enough just for the framing stud. :|


I would prefer to have a single slope toward to front then 4 per bay!
you can have the slope very minimal

Also to clarify what I mean. There are two slopes to deal with. You slope the floor to the trench but then the trench needs to also slope to the output. So if I went full length of the garage, looking at my drawing above, the slope of everything would ultimately need to go to the corner where that access door is on the end of the garage. Granted I agree it isn't like we are talking a huge slope, I am just thinking that if I go with 3 separate trenches, one for each bay, I can generally slope the entire slab toward the garage doors where the drain would be just on the inside of. Then 3 trench drains each 2 sections I think that was bout 6' or so long with their gradual slope and starting over with each one. Again they don't take much. Just like hanging a gutter on a house.
 

maxpat82

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ohh I read 36' slope. sorry.

For the door witdh : I have 9' door and my 07 f150 with the sport mirror fit really close..will be the same for a full size suv like your Yukon. I don't have any issue but I doubt my girlfriend wouldn't be stressed about it ;)

As per having 3 opener: there could be no opener on the tractor door....it's really easy to open a well installed door. I don't have opener on a my 3 door (9x7, 9x10, 10x7) and they open very easy.
 

flat350

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Also to clarify what I mean. There are two slopes to deal with. You slope the floor to the trench but then the trench needs to also slope to the output. So if I went full length of the garage, looking at my drawing above, the slope of everything would ultimately need to go to the corner where that access door is on the end of the garage. Granted I agree it isn't like we are talking a huge slope, I am just thinking that if I go with 3 separate trenches, one for each bay, I can generally slope the entire slab toward the garage doors where the drain would be just on the inside of. Then 3 trench drains each 2 sections I think that was bout 6' or so long with their gradual slope and starting over with each one. Again they don't take much. Just like hanging a gutter on a house.

Any of the name drain manufactures (Zurn,Wade,J R Smith etc.) make trench drains the have the slope built in to the bottom of the drain.You set the top level and the sections are progressively deeper with built in pitch.The drain out of the fixture can be placed any place you want.Be forewarned that a long drain will want to float up in the concrete even after you think you have it braced and secured more than enough.

https://www.zurn.com/products/trench-drainage/linear-trench-drain

http://www.wadedrains.com/product-index/hydro-flo-hdpe-trench-drain-systems/

https://www.jrsmith.com/trench-drain-systems

http://www.mifab.com/Catalog/Trench_Drains
 

finn

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With the heated floor, you don’t need a lot of slope towards the drain. A quick push with a broom or squeegee will move the large chunks of snow and ice to the trench drain and the remainder will evaporate by morning. The slope has to be just enough to avoid puddling.

Go with the 10’ doors. Also, make them at least 8’ tall, preferably 9’. I doubt that there has been more than a couple of new tractor sold in my county without a cab in the last couple of years.

Almost nobody buys open station tractors for winter work anymore.
 
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sennister

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ohh I read 36' slope. sorry.

For the door witdh : I have 9' door and my 07 f150 with the sport mirror fit really close..will be the same for a full size suv like your Yukon. I don't have any issue but I doubt my girlfriend wouldn't be stressed about it ;)

As per having 3 opener: there could be no opener on the tractor door....it's really easy to open a well installed door. I don't have opener on a my 3 door (9x7, 9x10, 10x7) and they open very easy.

For that matter, I don't need an opener on any of the doors. As I mentioned we have lots of garage doors. I have only two openers right now. On the big door on the pole barn (there is a small overhead door on the back side with no opener) and on the tuck under garage. That said I have a three button homelink remotes on my motorcycles and use the to open the garage door on the pole barn. I want that for the 3rd stall in the summer months. I don't have to have it but it is a pain getting off the bike, opening the door, going through and getting off again to close and lock it. I keep an opener remote on the tractor as well. Same reason when going in/out of the pole barn. You are right from a weight perspective if the torsion bars are set right it doesn't take much. However I am not getting younger, we have no plans on moving anytime soon. Also I am a disabled veteran rated at 100% Permanently and Totally Disabled. One of the many issues has to do with nerve damage on my arms. Not only am I going with 3 openers but we are considering a couple more of them. Not cheap at $600 a pop but I like them.
 
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sennister

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Any of the name drain manufactures (Zurn,Wade,J R Smith etc.) make trench drains the have the slope built in to the bottom of the drain.You set the top level and the sections are progressively deeper with built in pitch.The drain out of the fixture can be placed any place you want.Be forewarned that a long drain will want to float up in the concrete even after you think you have it braced and secured more than enough.

https://www.zurn.com/products/trench-drainage/linear-trench-drain

http://www.wadedrains.com/product-index/hydro-flo-hdpe-trench-drain-systems/

https://www.jrsmith.com/trench-drain-systems

http://www.mifab.com/Catalog/Trench_Drains

Yes that is a good point. I am aware that some of the drains out there have a slope built into them. As I mentioned when I referenced the drain I am looking at that I am not 100% sold on the brand. I have been looking at Zurn in particular but it is hard to find pricing. I did find a local rep I was going to reach out to but was first looking at if this is a good idea in general which is the reason for this thread.

The floating issue is also one that I read about. It is another reason I am looking at 3x 6' (one per bay) or so drains rather than a single 36' or so drain.

I don't know that I have seen all those brands so I will take a look at them.

Since you seem to know a bit about these, what about the slot style? I like the look of them and if in stainless I don't have to worry about a grate. Just a little worried about flushing them in the spring.
 
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sennister

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With the heated floor, you don’t need a lot of slope towards the drain. A quick push with a broom or squeegee will move the large chunks of snow and ice to the trench drain and the remainder will evaporate by morning. The slope has to be just enough to avoid puddling.

Go with the 10’ doors. Also, make them at least 8’ tall, preferably 9’. I doubt that there has been more than a couple of new tractor sold in my county without a cab in the last couple of years.

Almost nobody buys open station tractors for winter work anymore.

Doors right now are to be 9x9. I could go 10' wide and maintain 9' tall. I just want to look at the plans and see how much that eats into the space between the doors as mentioned. My justification stuff above was more why a 9' door over an 8'. Also why I don't want a double door and a single 3rd.

In the pole barn I have forced air heat. Wish it was in floor. I do the same with a squeegee to push the snow and ice to the drain as well as any water. It works well. As you mentioned the evaporation helping reduce draining. I suspect that will also help keep the sand out of the drains which is why I am thinking about skipping the sand trap. That and the short run to daylight should mean a spring flush with a garden hose should clear out any sand. Most if it should be just swept up from the floor. The floor will be poured this spring and by fall we want it epoxied. That way we seal it before salt and road grime hits it but give it plenty of time to fully cure.

I would love a cab but that adds to the cost quite a bit. I am considering a new tractor. I have an 02 John Deere X585 right now and want to move up to maybe a 2025R or more likely a 3025E. That is for FEL work and snow removal. The X585 was retired from mowing a couple years ago when I bought a Z950R zero turn. As it is I am not out there long enough plowing snow to justify the cab. I am just a yard farmer but have a few acres of grass. I do have a snow blower on the X585 but typically don't use it. Though I have the last two winters. That said a 3025E with a snow pusher and a rear blower for trouble spots would likely be all I need. John Deere wants too much for those front blowers on the bigger machines. The sketch up above is a 3025E in the garage.
 
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sennister

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I just looked up the dimensions of the Liftmaster 8500W. I need 8.5" of clearance from the end of the torsion bar on the wall to mount it.

I have to look at the plans when I get home to see how wide the wall is between the doors. It isn't a problem on the 3rd stall just the 1st and middle ones on if a 10' door would work because of the access door. The openers can mount to either the left or right side of the door. That doesn't matter as long as I have power there.
 
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sennister

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A few updates on this build.

Spoke with my contractor about changing a 10' vs 9' wide door. I had gone out and measured my Father-In-Law's GMC 3500 CC LB DRW truck as that is probably the biggest thing that will ever go in the garage. He stores it in the back of our pole barn in the winter. I also measured that garage door. It is 9' and while it does fit, we fold the towing mirrors on it to get it in. That is a manual process and can see that any full size truck with towing mirrors would be a pain with 9' doors. So thank you to those that pointed this out. We do have a camper and currently pull it with a Yukon Denali which has standard mirrors and we use the slip on towing mirrors when pulling the camper. I can see at some point replacing that truck and the next one could be a 3/4 ton with towing mirrors. That would have sucked.

That said I don't see that we will ever have two big trucks like that with towing mirrors. At most a big truck for camping and a smaller SUV. Because of this we are probably going with 9' doors on the 1st and 3rd with a 10' in the middle. We can still change this but with the access door also on that wall we are losing too much space between the doors. I might reconsider. The contractor was fine with this change and said we have time to figure it out for sure. Depending on where I priced the doors out it added between $100-300 to each door.

I asked about trench drains and he said that is normally what they put in and agreed with my plan in front of each door (inside the garage)
 
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