Garage Wiring Upgrade - Subpanel Install

[Paul_VR6]

Still in the planning stages, but I *think* I have most of it figured out and will post some updates of the work which should happen pretty soon. My garage thread is here: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302011 if you want to check it out. I am plagued with a pretty cookie cutter setup with a whopping TWO outlets which I plan to fix shortly! I have been stealing the dryer plug for the tig welder when needed. I am planning on getting a few more big tools (lift, plasma, etc) and finishing up the attic into storage shortly which means I need to get some wiring done up there first.



Goals:

30A 240v welding receptacle near man door and near panel

20A 120v quad receptacle near planel

30A 240v plasma receptacle near man door

30A 120v receptacle on ceiling for lift

20A 120v receptacle on ceiling for future

15A x?? receptacles on walls (later add)



I have one spare spot in my current 200A panel that was feeding an electric range which removed and will install a 125A breaker there.



Plan on using a 125A main breaker panel with 1/0-1/0-1/0-2 SER wire back to the main panel. Due to how the house and garage sit, I don't have easy access to the innards of the garage wall without tearing out the drywall. So, I will have to use conduit for this run either 2 or 2.5" PVC to go through the adjoining wall. Luckily I can use SER cable in the basement ceiling as is and not have to worry about conduit for the whole run. I am not sure what I may have to do for fire protection here so going to look into it a bit more.



Here is the general layout of the run and the additions:







Hopefully folks will drop by to see what's going on or what I'm up to as I finish this off. I am off to a solid start I think by the numerous threads on GJ on this topic that covered some things in detail already.



Thanks for listening!

 

[Noltz]

I'm at work and can't check your thread right now. Double check your lift voltage. The only 120v ones I know of are the smallest of hobby grade lifts, like portable ones. The ones at my work are 230-240. I would definitely plan for 240 for the lift. Also I don't see a listing for a compressor. Plasma takes a big compressor to keep up. Are you keeping your lights on the main panel?

 

[Norcal]

It’s pretty doubtful that you need 125A there is a significant jump in price from 80-100A breakers to 125A, for most people 100A is fine with more savings if #2 AL is used with a 90A breaker.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Good points, this is the lift https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Garage-Pro-8000-EXT specs 30A 120V, and it seems most 4 post are like that. 2 post all seem to be 30A 240V, not sure why as they seem to be doing the same work. Maybe some mechanical advantage to the 4 post.

Already have a decent compressor 30cal 1/2hp and use it all the time with air tools, etc. Seemed like it was plenty for the plasma at the low DC I will use it.

I could get away with 90A JUST for this garage, but my thought was do 125A and I can also run some out to the shed I will build soon along that back wall, as well eventually to another garage I want to do "someday" and it seems like it's easier to do once than twice. I can feed that right out of this panel as it's on the outside/back wall and it's an easy/straight run.

Appreciate the comments though, it's helpful.

 

[Noltz]

Good points, this is the lift https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Atlas-Garage-Pro-8000-EXT specs 30A 120V, and it seems most 4 post are like that. 2 post all seem to be 30A 240V, not sure why as they seem to be doing the same work. Maybe some mechanical advantage to the 4 post.

Already have a decent compressor 30cal 1/2hp and use it all the time with air tools, etc. Seemed like it was plenty for the plasma at the low DC I will use it.

I could get away with 90A JUST for this garage, but my thought was do 125A and I can also run some out to the shed I will build soon along that back wall, as well eventually to another garage I want to do "someday" and it seems like it's easier to do once than twice. I can feed that right out of this panel as it's on the outside/back wall and it's an easy/straight run.

Appreciate the comments though, it's helpful.

I did not know the 4 post parking lifts were 120v 30A. I thought they were 240. Huh... live and learn. Another benefit for having 125A in the garage is when electric cars become the norm. That panel could run two Level 2 50A chargers at full power, and keep the lights on. The cost jump is significant but it has no ongoing costs. Personally I'd go as big as the budget allows. You'll not regret spending an extra $300 on materials, but you might regret NOT spending it.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, You should put in the biggest subpanel and service you can afford.

All workshops are "works in progress" and compromises between desires and what money you have to spend.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Just when I was wavering thinking 125a is overkill... is 200a the right number now? [emoji28]

 

[75gmck25]

You can also take a stepped approach.

Assuming you can get it for a reasonable price, run wire that will handle 125 amp, but only use a cheaper 90 or 100 amp (or even 60 amp) breaker for now in the main panel. On the garage end use a panel rated for 125 amps. Later on when you really need the additional amperage, switch to the 125 amp breaker in the main panel and you will have the full amps you think you need.

Bruce

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Why are you using conduit for part of the run?

Why not use SER end to end?

 

[Paul_VR6]

In the garage section I am going to surface mount the panel so conduit from the basement penetration to the panel. Not a long run, few feet with a 90. Mostly from tearing into the wall which seemed like a PITA in comparison.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Bit of a hold up is getting the required 1/0 SER anywhere locally... making some calls today.

 

[Lessons]

Bit of a hold up is getting the required 1/0 SER anywhere locally... making some calls today.

Can you order online and get it in time? Wire and cable your way is one online company with good prices per foot, but shipping will get you. If you can find it on Home Depot you'll pay more per foot but they'll ship for free. All this works great if your local shops won't sell by the foot.

In the garage section I am going to surface mount the panel so conduit from the basement penetration to the panel. Not a long run, few feet with a 90. Mostly from tearing into the wall which seemed like a PITA in comparison.

You're just running the full jacketed SER inside for protection, correct?

 

[Paul_VR6]

No real timeframe other than I wanted to get started this weekend but proving difficult. There is one place a few towns over that has stock, will try there tomorrow.

Yes the conduit is only for protection on the short run from the garage/house wall to the bottom of the box so I don't have to crack the garage outer wall apart.

 

[dcg9381]

I think you can get by fine on 60A, if you want to make that change. You won't be using any two high draw devices at once. Even doing 90A would be easier and less costly for breaker and wire options.. No way you'll ever use 125A.

I've ordered wire - typically from Southwire - comes pretty fast and is often less costly delivered than the local electrical supplies.

If you're going to surface mount, I've done PVC electrical drops - they prevent you from tearing up the drywall and they're pretty easy to relocate / redo... People do metal conduit too, I just haven't done it.

I don't wire 15A receptacles. Ever. 20A only.

 

[Paul_VR6]

*I* can't do two high draw things at once but I think its feasible some day that the boy and I could be at some point. Especially if he is anything like me at a young age, anything that makes fire (welders, plasma) will be hard to keep him away. Also, in the long game the presence of EVs in this garage and all the equipment in another is quite a possibility and will be fed through this panel.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Little scouting with a pilot hole. Measure 3x drill once and got pretty close. Should be room to put a 2-3" conduit right over the ledge.






Right in first pic is left in second pic.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Too good a deal on a 30 space 200a main breaker panel in the clearance section. Must have been opened and returned.

 

[Paul_VR6]

I didn't think about this but should I mount the panel with the main at the bottom as that is where the feed comes from? Looking at the amount of space I could come up and around, just not sure if there is any upside to that, other than looking "normal."

 

[loganb]

I didn't think about this but should I mount the panel with the main at the bottom as that is where the feed comes from? Looking at the amount of space I could come up and around, just not sure if there is any upside to that, other than looking "normal."

Just mounted my subpanel and yes, I put the main on the bottom to shorten the run as I had electricity entering in the bottom.

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[ROBZ71LM7]

I didn't think about this but should I mount the panel with the main at the bottom as that is where the feed comes from? Looking at the amount of space I could come up and around, just not sure if there is any upside to that, other than looking "normal."

Whichever way works. If you're mounting the main where the feed comes in just ensure that still allows you enough room where where the cable enters to the main breaker and not bend a radius that's too tight. I like to come in the opposite end and loop around and have a gentle bend on the service entrance cable. My feed comes in the bottom and I have my main breaker on top.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Don't have the cable yet but I don't think the 1/0 will want to bend nicely. Mounting breaker on bottom seems like the best way at the moment. Will decide in the next hour.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Looks like breaker on bottom won.

 

[loganb]

Looks great, here is where mine sits at the moment...don't have any circuits hooked up but got started before other things got in the way

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[Paul_VR6]

 

[Paul_VR6]

Had to do a bit of a roadtrip but lucked on to the 125a breaker at cost because a customer returned it and it was dusty. Wire wasn't far off 2g ser either so this setup is within $100 of a 90a feed.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Question for the night, does the pvc end need a bushing? Seems to need it for 4 or larger in raceway but not sure if needed inside a jacketed cable. Nec is sure fun.

 

[Paul_VR6]

Dug around at the hardware store and didn't find anything appropriate. I got a 2" coupler that has a slight radius on it that should be fine.