Garage woes (rebuild or replace it?)

[neonturbo]

Sorry this is so long, and slightly vague.

I have a building and I cannot decide what should happen to it. The building in question is approximately 50' deep by 100' wide, and of cinder (not concrete) block construction. The cinder block is in very good condition at this time. It has a dirt and gravel floor. This building was built in about 1950, and has had very little or no maintenance in the years since. The trouble is the roof, including the trusses, is rotten and failing. The 8 overhead doors are also from that same era and are rotted old wood. I understand this roof has always had problems, probably the original construction was inadequate.

A complete roof with trusses would probably cost a small fortune, in fact I bet I could build a small pole barn for the cost of the roof on the existing building alone. There are a couple problems with simply building a new pole barn. First would be getting rid of the existing building. I highly doubt the city would allow me to abandon this building. That would be one heck of a lot of block to get rid of. Second would be whether the city would allow a new building in the first place. It is in a city where you can only cover ** amount of the yard with buildings and I am fairly certain we are already over the "new" limit. The zoning and land use rule have become stricter in the years since the building was built.

I need to store about 6-8 cars, and other assorted car stuff. The existing building is actually larger than I need. I am just afraid that I will open a big can of worms by trying to build a new building vs repairing the existing one.

I am physically unable to do the work myself in either case. I would be borrowing the money to do either project. Should I rebuild it, or replace it? This picture is from when the building was in better shape. The red part of the building is a tin-roofed lean to, and is partitioned off from the main building.

Any insight or advice?

 

[critter]

Skillion roof might save on the costs of replacing it.....
Definitely try to restore it and do it piece by piece over time if you have to. F'instance partition off the areas with damaged roof as you gradually replace it from one end to the other as time and finance allows.
Just a thought. That's a big space that would be hard to replace.

 

[king nero]

Trusses might actually set you back less than you think.
I'd try to do it that way, in the long run it's an investment (resale value).
And you can never have enough room, lots of people including me would kill for a place like that!

 

[markviii]

Wow! Lots of space under a roof. Seeing as the main building is cinder block, you have a good base. Get several bids on the roof/truss work and get that done first. Is that a chimney in the center where the roofs meet? I sure wouldn't give up on rebuilding.

You will find that 50' x 100' will work just fine for what you listed. We tend to fill the space we have, so don't give up any of that space

The bank may be skeptical about loaning $ and the insurance company (which the bank will require) may be skeptical about insuring, but it can be done (see our Restored 1930's Auto Shop thread here on GJ).

Getting some of this work done now, in decent weather, is better than we had it (we started roofing in November/December of 2005).


Good luck---and I'll keep checking in to see progress.

Chris

 

[darkk]

If the basic structure is solid, price out trusses and roof against a new steel building.

 

[bams50]

I like the idea of partitioning. Pick the best quarer or third of the length and have a strong partition built. Next, get the roof done, with proper trusses, over that part. Tear down and board up any overhead doors in that area except one, and replace it. If the rest seems in danger of collapse, you might want to do the minimum to shore that up.

Once your finances recover, repeat with the next section, recover, repeat until it's done. If part of it collapses before you get to it, just tear down that section.

In most areas, cost and codes would prevent ever rebuilding anything that size, which makes it more valuable when you sell.

Save in sections, and keep financing to a minimum. These days it's scary to go on the hook for a big loan of any kind, but especially for a non-essential like a garage.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Kevin54]

If you have good block walls on a good foundation, then it's a no brainer to repair what you have. New trusses and a roof now, then a floor, and you will have that new building. Like stated above, if you can't afford it all now, do half or a third. Wall off the inside and concrete what you can afford right now.

 

[neonturbo]

Bumping this up for a status update. The building has taken a turn for the worse, and the roof is now sagging very badly, almost to the point of collapse.

After talking to a contractor, I think I am going to repair the building. I do not have an estimate yet, but from what we were discussing it would be best to repair.

• According to this guy, even if I could afford a building this size, the city wants 100 foot setback from the street. There is no place on this lot to do that.
• The city would never let me build a building this big due to zoning
• The cost is about the same as building a small to medium pole building
• The existing blocks are in good shape for their age, and it would be a waste to tear it down.

This roof has always had problems, and both the contractor and I feel the shallow pitch (3/12) of the existing roof was mostly the cause. I think we are going with steel instead of shingles this time so it will be a permanent fix. He feels he can repair the roof in 2-3 days once we get the old roof and trusses removed. That is going to be tricky, but has to be done.

I might eliminate some garage doors for now simply to save some money. The contractor proposed using left over (extra) roofing to fill in the doors for now. That would get me by until next spring/summer where I could worry about these, and some other doors on my other building.

 

[Bull]

If the block is good, I would absolutely want to save that...it's huge!

Replace the roof, pour a floor, upgrade the insulation and electrical as you can and be in automotive hobbyist Paradise.

Please post more pictures, too!

 

[930dreamer]

Where are you located? what a great LARGE shop. I look forward to the rebuild. Are the tree roots growing up/under the building?

 

[BD1]

Yep, as stated, new trusses and roof. You maybe legal but non conforming by leaving the walls. All you are doing now is trying to maintain it. Repair might not even affect taxes. New, taxes could be a lot worse.

 

[snowman1981]

I have a 40x90 steel building with over 100,000 + into it so if everything else is good but the roof get qoutes from a couple places and go with the best one. remember the cheapest is not all ways the best.

 

[rsanter]

no brainer....repair it

bob

 

[nti06]

A steeper pitch on the roof, standing seam metal roof, new trusses and you should have another 50 years+ out of that building.

 

[sickjuice]

Given your situation I agree fixing it up is your best bet.
But if it wasn't for the zoning issues I would say push it down. Once you start tearing into it your going to find more and more things that need fixing and by the time your done your going to spend more than a new building.

 

[Big Gus]

I would never tear down a good block structure only to replace it with a ****** pole building.

 

[Falcon67]

I would say do a steel roof on that pitch - which is what it sound like you are doing. Lots of steel barns that size, all you need is the top part.

 

[mncountrydoc]

I would agree that you should get bids to replace the trusses and get steel roofing on it we have the same problem of not being able to build bigger

 

[LSU]

Experience talking here- if you live in a city that is permit intense make darn sure any contractor you choose knows how to comply with the permits.

You're also going to want to make sure all codes, set backs and zoning is proper before you spend too much money.

Been there. Not a fun place when you can't get power turned on because your toilet isn't handicap accessible.

 

[Bib Overalls]

I'm with the others. Fix the roof. If the city gives you any problems offer to tear down the lean to addition. Renovate one or two bays at a time. People with boats are always looking for winter storage. Without making a big deal of it you might be able to generate a bit of cash flow to pay for improvements.

 

[Kevin54]

Bumping this up for a status update. The building has taken a turn for the worse, and the roof is now sagging very badly, almost to the point of collapse.

After talking to a contractor, I think I am going to repair the building. I do not have an estimate yet, but from what we were discussing it would be best to repair.

• 
  [*]According to this guy, even if I could afford a building this size, the city wants 100 foot setback from the street. There is no place on this lot to do that.
  [*]The city would never let me build a building this big due to zoning
• The cost is about the same as building a small to medium pole building
• The existing blocks are in good shape for their age, and it would be a waste to tear it down.

This roof has always had problems, and both the contractor and I feel the shallow pitch (3/12) of the existing roof was mostly the cause. I think we are going with steel instead of shingles this time so it will be a permanent fix. He feels he can repair the roof in 2-3 days once we get the old roof and trusses removed. That is going to be tricky, but has to be done.

I might eliminate some garage doors for now simply to save some money. The contractor proposed using left over (extra) roofing to fill in the doors for now. That would get me by until next spring/summer where I could worry about these, and some other doors on my other building.

That answers it right there. If you have a 100' setback and the city won't allow you to build new, nothing says you can't repair.

If it were me, and depending on the money situation that you have, start keeping an eye out for buildings that are going to be demolished. Instead of having a contractor putting up wooden trusses, start searching around for steel trusses. This way you won't have to have as many but the money will be in 2x4's to run across them. But a truckload of 2x4's is way cheaper than a truckload of trusses. Check with demolition companies around you to see if they have anything coming up.

Looking at your top pic again, the lean-to consist of half of the building, correct? If the lean-to is torn off then instead of being 50' wide, the building would only be 25' wide. correct? If so, carefully remeasure from wall to wall without the lean-to and if it's 24'. ,ost lumber yards carry them as a standard truss and they sell for something like $35 each. They are a standard 4/12 pitch and go on at every 24" so you'd be looking at 50 trusses and around $2000. then it would take around 100 sheets of OSB to cover it. The last I looked was at almost $8.00/sht but this hurricane will drive up that price. I'm not sure what steel cost for your roofing, but for approx. $3000 you could have a roof on in the rough.

Mind you, that's if you are 24' from wall to wall. Anything over that means building a rafter system on sight or a custom made truss, and this is without a lean-to.

 

[neonturbo]

Re: Garage woes (rebuild or replace it?) UPDATE

Some progress. Ran out of nice weather and money to finish the doors and soffit. I will also try to paint it this spring/summer. I am capable of painting and have a pretty nice sprayer.

 

[bighouse01]

Awesome. You could close up some of those door openings - didn't read the posts, maybe it was mentioned.

 

[volaredon]

keeping what you have is best, code/setback wise it is "grandfathered" in, that building probably was there before most of the codes were even written;
being that there has been "a building" in that spot so long they may have allowed you to do more than you think with somethin new AS LONG AS THE NEW ONE WAS IN THE SAME SPOT AS THE OLD ONE and the same size at most... but yeah fixing=better than building new anyway

 

[ambenz]

This is a Awesome garage build, I am so glad you didn't demo it.
I am sure your gonna be glad too!
Subscribed!

 

[Fueler]

Any idea what the building was used for originally?
This will be great when you get it habitable.

 

[cyamaha2007]

Im glad you saved it. I thought the thread was dead.

 

[CNGsaves]

Nice save on building with great potential.

Curious what ballpark money you'll have invested in land and shell of building once the roof and doors are done??

Will you be able to afford portion of the floor to be radiant heat and install PEX when you pour that section??

Keep pics coming and best of luck with build.

 

[darwyn]

How about renting some of that space out? Around here artists are always looking for studio space. Has to be a ton of uses for the part you are not using.

 

[Bull]

I love that building, and the work you have done so far looks great.

The Photoshop swirl on the right in the open bay and the other effect on the left made my eyes hurt, though!

 

[Bull]

Ah, man, no updates?

 

[77thor]

Nice job. Very good start.

The possibilities are endless for that building.

 

[Old Moparz]

Great to see it was saved, I hope to see some updates, too.

 

[rburke65]

You'll never kick yourself for saving this building. Nice job.

 

[neonturbo]

Sorry everyone for the delayed update, I have been working long hours to try to pay for this project.

Any idea what the building was used for originally?
This will be great when you get it habitable.

I would rather not specifically say, but generically speaking it would probably be considered former governmental (in the broadest sense) vehicle storage. It was never owned by the "government" but was purpose built for them. It was rented from my family for a few (maybe 10?) years. After that it was used for various family storage purposes.

Nice save on building with great potential.
Curious what ballpark money you'll have invested in land and shell of building once the roof and doors are done??

Land has been in my family for over 100 years, so that is "free". I don't have an exact figure yet, the other doors are going to be done this spring. So far it is in the mid-$20K range.

Will you be able to afford portion of the floor to be radiant heat and install PEX when you pour that section??

As of right now there is no gas (never was) and no electricity in this building. It did have electricity at one time but the overhead service was removed years ago. I do not intend to really do anything but use it for cold storage. There is another building on the property which can be used as a work space and it has electricity, gas, and already has a concrete floor. The floor in this building is gravel, and maybe next year I plan on putting down a vapor barrier, and an additional layer of pea-gravel or similar. It was fairly dry when the roof was whole with just a thin layer of gravel over a sand base so it should be fine by topping it off.

How about renting some of that space out? Around here artists are always looking for studio space. Has to be a ton of uses for the part you are not using.

I don't think it will be great for artists, besides I don't think this place has many artists. What few there are all seem to flock in the next large town. Maybe in my retirement years this will be rental space for boat, RV, or vehicle storage. I am not quite to the point in my life where I can, or want to, do the rental thing. That is why I did not want to block off any doors in case I do decide to partition it off for rental space. It is never going to be cheaper to put new doors in, and if I do them all now they all will match.

 

[nti06]

Have you made any new progress?