gas company pressure regulator

[SM1]

The gas company says I have more than enough gas to my house. What I need added up to 815000 btu IF everything was run the same time. The numbers I found on the regulator is as follows,

Model# 8033
Range 5.5 to 8.0
valve 1/8 to 3/16
RV Set 14

Does anyone know how to read these. the line from the road to the house is 1 inch and about 175 ft. long, could the gas company be correct in saying I don't need an upgrade. Thanks

 

[kbs2244]

They are the pros that work with every day.
Why wouldn't you belive them?

If for some reason you have to upgrade, it is no big deal for them to swap out the regulator.
They do it all the time.

 

[Bustawrench]

Why do you think you don't have enough gas?

The increased pressure allows them to use a smaller diameter branch line from the main to the house. The regulator is used to step the pressure down to 7" WC, which is what your appliances use.

 

[BillK]

Just curious ..... what in the world do you have that runs 815k btu's ?

 

[79firebird]

Wow thats going to cost a heck of a lot to run. a fue locak shops use 1 inch to run ther heaters 2-3 200,000 heaters and its fine and stays above 10 with there bay doors open and there bill is like $1000 a month for it. so you must have a huge place to use that much btu. ive heared a 1 inch line can run up to a million btu bont dont know that for shure

 

[Torque1st]

The gas company just does not add up figures, they use demand factors. Let the gas company professionals figure it out.

 

[SM1]

I'm not saying I don't believe them I just want to be sure that I have enough coming in before I upgrade the lines in the house.
When looking at the gas line sizing charts and the length of the run of the 1" I thought I wasn't getting enough gas to the house for my appliances. When I turn on the stove top burner and my wife runs the dryer the flame on the burner gets smaller and a host of other tale tale signs of reduced gas pressure related to the inside of the house and the size of the pipe. I just wanted to be sure that the supply was enough since this house wasn't origionally set up for all gas appliances. This is what I'm feeding,

100000 btu furnace
75000 btu water heater
50000 btu fire place
200000 btu six burner double oven range
35000 btu dryer
150000 btu outdoor grill
35000 btu fireplace
60000 btu power burner outdoor
75000 btu garage heater
35000 btu for future outdoor fire pit

granted all this isn't at one time, furnace, hot water, dryer,part of the stove, may be running at one time, am I calculating this wrong?

 

[Torque1st]

... am I calculating this wrong?

Yes. There are demand factors. Show your list to the gas company and let them figure your needs.

Same thing goes for electrical load calculations. There are specific demand factors and percentages etc.

 

[SM1]

Thanks I'll call them back and explain myself better.

 

[Torque1st]

Calling then sending them the list in an email or fax would be better. They will need your account # and service address also.

 

[mmg440]

There is always a chance that even if figured correctly for the supply. The regulator could be faulty or some other system deficiency. My be inquire about what you are experiencing with the flame on the stove and such.
Give them the symptoms to go on and it may help locate a problem.

 

[kbs2244]

Your problem is sizing inside the house, not to the house.

 

[SM1]

Well the Gas Co. came out today, my regulator was only set to 5" water column so he adjusted it to the max 7" he said it wouldn't make a lot of difference though, when I told him the btu I think I need he looked to confirm about 800000 btu all my appliances added up, he said my meter needed to be upgraded to one that will handle about 900000 btu since the one I have only handles 250000 btu and I will still need to upgrade the lines in my house. So I'm looking forward to getting this done and hanging my Reznor. Thanks

 

[Ron Lombardo]

SM1 - I'm a Mechanical Engineer and I own my own Mechanical Contracting Co.

Im 99% sure the gas Co. can supply you with enough gas. The 1" line to your house can be anywhere from 1lb to 25lbs. They will only supply you to a residential house 7 -9" of Water Column = 1/4 to 1/2lb after the regulator.

There are two seperate calculations of gas equipment. 100% diversity factor ..Furnaces, boilers, water heaters ..all fire full blast. The other is 75% diversity factor ... firepalces, stoves, ovens etc ..where you turn them on a regulate them ... THEN lixed in to all this is the probablity that ALL will be firing at once ....thats why we use charts to size this up.

I wouldnt be worried that they cant supply enough gas I would be worried about the pipe sizing in your house ... I'm home now ... but IF you have 815,000 BTU or 815 MBH I would hope there is a 2" gas line sticking out the side of your house where the meter is .... because low pressure gas ... the size of the piping is the KEY. If you want I can scan and email you a chart and or size it for you tomorrow at work ... [email protected]

Ron

 

[SM1]

I'm really confused now, The gas company said the gas meter I have now is only good for 250000 btu, as far as the 815000 btu I need well I really don't need that much because not everything runs at the same time the outdoor grill is 155000 btu but it's not being used right now and even when it is it's not all running. So tell me what I need to do, yes I would appreciate if you could set me straight I just want to hang my reznor, Thanks

 

[SM1]

Ron also I think the tech said the supply from the road was plenty it's just that the meter I have can't handle any more btus than 250000 also I think I heard him say 40 lbs of something and I'm not sure what that meant it could of even been 4 lbs. Thanks

 

[Torque1st]

After they adjusted your gas pressure make sure you adjust any pilots, ignition systems, and burners on your appliances for the increased pressure.

 

[SM1]

Tech did that but I really didn't notice any difference. Thanks

 

[badgerboiler]

These unit don't all run at once.

 

[SM1]

No they don't.

 

[ddrewyor]

Pick up a tube type manometer - they are relatively inexpensive at Graingers, and check at each appliance when you have typical loading of the system ie: furnace running and the gas dryer kicks on. Watch to see if the pressure drops much below the 7" water column mark and stays there. Applicances can tolerate some fluctuation and some are more sensitive than others. I went through this when I put my furnace in the garage and worried about the length of the run and other equipment on the same line. My loading is:

117,000 btu tankless heater
100,000 btu house furnace
100,000 btu garage furnace
50,000 btu stove
35,000 btu dryer
~ 45,000 btu fireplace

Gas company said I needed to change the meter ( read$$ ) so I picked up the manometer and started checking. At that point I adjusted the regulator at the meter to provide 7" and adjusted at each appliance. I have not seen it drop to less that 6.0" with everything on. This is through a 3\4" pipe coming off the meter. If they all kicked on at the same time that might be trouble though. Good luck

Dave
________
PENNY STOCK PICKS

 

[Ron Lombardo]

I'm sorry but I have to cast a doubt on those figures ddrewyor.

There is no way your going to supply 447 MBH thru a 3/4" pipe at 6" WC with everything on ...the catch is YOU ADJUSTED the regulator at the meter and I would bet that your way higher then 7" WC with everything off .... I think you have more like 10" and that we call my friend HIGH RPESSURE gas ..not allowed in a residence .. it is sppoed to be welded joints.


That regulator at the meter is NEVER supposed to adjusted by ANYONE except the UTILITY CO. God for bid something happens ... and someone checks why ? The Insurance co will not pay penny.

My 2 cents.

Ron

 

[ddrewyor]

I agree with what you say regarding the capacity of the line, load, and associated pressure drop. That is why I originally thought I needed a different meter. However, when the gas company came out and replaced the meter and regulator after my wife hit it with the trail mower, they verified the line at 7" WC. The utility guy said the only reason I could get away with my setup was because when it comes into the house off the meter the run to the water heater, house furnace, and dryer is extremely short < 10 feet. The longest run is to the back garage ~ 75" feet away and that's where I saw the biggest drop. Don't know if what he said is true and I never measured after he came out, but everything works and I assume he set up the meter\regulator correctly.
________
HONDA C ENGINE

 

[Ron Lombardo]

" The utility guy said the only reason I could get away with my setup was because when it comes into the house off the meter the run to the water heater, house furnace, and dryer is extremely short < 10 feet. The longest run is to the back garage ~ 75" feet away and that's where I saw the biggest drop. "

Thats very possible ... agreed ... if you increased the size of the 10' section to the major appliances ...the 75' run to the 100,000 btu furnace in the garage would work properly . Agreed

Ron

 

[ddrewyor]

When I add a gas heater to the spa and switch the generator to NG - that's tricky to do on 3\4" I may be asking for your advice at that time on what to change out Thanks in advance!

Dave
________
Parkwood

 

[jbcat2]

Ron...You are correct that 10"would be high pressure Nat Gas but the pipe does not have to be welded...Propane is between 11 and 14 WC. Also many large houses in new construction will run 1-2 psi and regulate near or at the appliance. When I say big homes, I mean 10 - 18k sq ft. JB

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Very interesting and a lot of good points made.

It seems to me, as someone that works for a gas company, that the meter IS undersized but that isn't your problem. You indicate you are experiencing signs of lower pressure even with only a couple of your loads running. That indicates one of two problems:

1. Your piping is undersized.
2. The regulator isn't functioning properly.

Just for giggles I ran the following on GasCalc

Length of Run 50'
Flow .8 MCF per hour (about 800,000 BTU)
In Pressure 7" WC
Out Pressure 6" WC
Solve for Pipe Size

The Pipe Size came back as 1.316" which you'd have to round UP to 1.5" if you want to carry the whole load 50-feet. What size pipe do you have running to the meter from your house?

Regardless, a 250 meter is way too small for your application. You might be able to get by with a 415, but if it was my home I'd probably want a Sensus 750 or similar, which is rated at 1.6 Million BTU/Hr. That's a commercial meter BTW and may mean a larger customer charge.

I wish I had a lot of customers like you. Good for revenue. Sounds to me like you need to add a couple of gas lights and a pool heater

Phil

 

[SM1]

Thanks for the reply, Yes I do need to add some more like I need a hole in my head, haha, but really I don't run everything at once so I would think it unfair (on my part) to say I need so much it's just that a couple of my appliances are large and if totally turned on would require a lot of btus, with that said, I'm in the process of upgrading the pipes first and everyone locally I talk to who does this kind of work says it would be nonsense to oversize the system but agree that the one inch line I have from the meter needs to be upgraded and run the remaining 30 ft. and then feed the rest of the house off that, and since the meter is only good for 250 have that changed out to accomodate like you said somewhere in the 400 plus range. Stay tuned I'll keep you updated. Steve

 

[ultgar]

Stopped by a job this weekend and my HVAC guy was doing the control wiring on a 1,500,000 btu heating system with a pair of 200 gallon indirect water heaters. I think the gas line was 1 1/2".

 

[SM1]

I hope some day I could have a system just like that, it would mean alot of things RICH being one. I do get your your point though. Thanks