I live in the part of Northern California that may have electrical service cut off during high risk fire conditions. I'm thinking about buying a generator to keep the fridge cold and and run my well pump and a few light bulbs. I think the well pump is 1 HP. It's possible that the power outage might be as long as 10 days. Any recommendations as to brand and size?
gas engine generator
- Thread starter gorilla
- Start date
ken w.
Well-known member
I've used a 1.5 KV generator for quite a while with no issues. The fridge , freezer , and well pump don't run constant so you really don't need that much power. I just found a larger generator cheap so I up graded.
zkdiesel
Well-known member
Looking at a 100 kv diesel one soon, have an 10k on my house and it does it’s job well
Hooked up to propane tank for house on auto transfer switch
Hooked up to propane tank for house on auto transfer switch
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The truth is, a typical suburban house can easily run on 1500W-2000W with careful load management. The newer "inverter" generators are quiet and sip fuel so 5 gallons could last more than a day (assuming you shut down at night).
Your pump makes you "atypical" !
Most well pumps are 240V. To get 240V you will probably need a 5000W non-inverter generator. Loud, drinks lots of fuel.
Get a pair of 2000W inverter generators or a 3000W (120V) generator and a 3000W transformer to run the well pump.
EDIT : Honda is the "King of the Hill" in small generators. The HF Predator models and the Champion models of the same size are less than 50% of the price of the Honda.
Your pump makes you "atypical" !
Most well pumps are 240V. To get 240V you will probably need a 5000W non-inverter generator. Loud, drinks lots of fuel.
Get a pair of 2000W inverter generators or a 3000W (120V) generator and a 3000W transformer to run the well pump.
EDIT : Honda is the "King of the Hill" in small generators. The HF Predator models and the Champion models of the same size are less than 50% of the price of the Honda.
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Your well pump ran on 120V ?
ddawg16
Well-known member
If you want to get 'creative'.....consider some Li or other type of battery fed from a solar cell arrangement.
The costs of solar cells is coming down....batteries are getting better. Nice thing about Li....they can sit at a charged state a LOT longer than other batteries.
Solar means it recharges during the day....it's free....and....at some point, might allow you to 'disconnect'....
The costs of solar cells is coming down....batteries are getting better. Nice thing about Li....they can sit at a charged state a LOT longer than other batteries.
Solar means it recharges during the day....it's free....and....at some point, might allow you to 'disconnect'....
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
... AND you can run them down to 0% State of Charge (SOC) without damage.
BUT ...
To run a house, even with a 1000W inverter (which would NOT run a well pump and maybe NOT even a decent size residential refrigerator) would cost SEVERAL THOUSAND $$$$ IN BATTERIES ALONE, not including the solar panels, charge controller and inverters. You could easily be out $10,000 or more to run a house with a well pump.
That buys a lot of generators and gasoline !
I predict that there will be a lot of people installing elevated water tanks in parts of CA !
ddawg16
Well-known member
You underestimate the energy density of Li
matt_i
Well-known member
If Honda could make something around an eu3000 with 240/120 output I think they would have incredible sales. There are a lot of people all over the US running 240vac well pumps that would buy one, I do believe. They have a 7000/7500 series which fits the bill as far as the ampacity (and more) but is pretty pricey for something that would sit around most of the time.
The propane fueled versions are interesting to the point that they don't have any fuel stability issues or carb gumming and so theoretically should always start right off without having to drain fuel, run it regularly, etc. But it may be more painful to find and transport the propane during an outage...
The propane fueled versions are interesting to the point that they don't have any fuel stability issues or carb gumming and so theoretically should always start right off without having to drain fuel, run it regularly, etc. But it may be more painful to find and transport the propane during an outage...
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ddurrett896
Well-known member
Big fan of Champion. Got a 7500 got house (minus AC) and a 2000 for camping and small stuff.
brianh
Well-known member
I have a champion 3500 with the same situation as you. I run the pump get the holding tank full switch to 120 run the fridge and freezer when the freezer shuts off I shut the generator down. I repeat the cycle about every 4 hours.
For lighting I have a solar and battery system it is wired for 24 volts. regular led bulbs will light on 24 volts as long as they are the dimmable kind I also have inverter to run small appliances and pc.
We have had the power out as long as a week this has worked out well.
For lighting I have a solar and battery system it is wired for 24 volts. regular led bulbs will light on 24 volts as long as they are the dimmable kind I also have inverter to run small appliances and pc.
We have had the power out as long as a week this has worked out well.
Bretny
Well-known member
Sorry guys but your not going to start a 1hp well pump even with a 240v 3kw. Usualy a 1hp motor will be 5A@240 and pull at least 3x the amps starting. You will need a 3,500w starting watts generator. If your starting the pump with a pressure tank attached you may need more like 6-8x the running amps.
Keeping a generator running for 10 days that will start the well pump can get expensive quick. Any way what your doing with that water may be more inportant. Have you thought about keeping enough portable sprinklers around and hoses? Can your well even support 3 or 4 of these running?
Keeping a generator running for 10 days that will start the well pump can get expensive quick. Any way what your doing with that water may be more inportant. Have you thought about keeping enough portable sprinklers around and hoses? Can your well even support 3 or 4 of these running?
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The problem is the US is wired with "split phase" 240V. This means each "leg" only gets half of the power, or 1500W.
In laymen's terms ... So if you feed your house with 3000W (12.5A @ 120V per leg) and multiple "important" appliances (upstairs and downstairs refrigerator) happen to be on the same leg it will not work. Depending on the age of the house and how it was originally wired, you may not be able to get around this.
With 25A @ 120V you can tie both legs together (effectively meaning 0V to any 240V load) all 120V loads will run ... at least until you trip the 25A breaker on the generator.
Either switch to a 120V well pump (limited output) or by 3000W transformer. A "smart sparky" can actually wire it with a couple of relays so that it only cuts in when 240V is NOT available !
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theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Lucky13driver
Well-known member
I use a Champion 7.5kw for hurricane season. It runs 2 small window a/c units lights refrigerator. I went with dual fuel in case there's no gasoline I can run it on propane.
mcbane
Well-known member
I have a Honda 3500 generator. No problem running my 2hp well pump but I need to be very careful what else is happening when the well pump kicks on or the generator breaker will trip.
Unless you are 100% certain of your loads go with a bigger generator. If I had this to do over again I would have bought 5000 Watts or more.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Unless you are 100% certain of your loads go with a bigger generator. If I had this to do over again I would have bought 5000 Watts or more.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Notgrownup
Well-known member
I’ve used a 4500 watts 20 years old Craftsmen and it still runs great.., ran fridge and freezer all day with the TV and fans then at night I ran fans, claps, fridge..Nowi have a brand new 8000 wAtts...I am going to wire my panel to accept a 240v 30amp.
SGKent
Banned
get together with your family if you haven't already, and make a list of the essential items the generator will need to run if you haven't already done so. The cost to run a generator is more than PGE, and the trips for fuel will become a chore too. I am assuming you are on a well, septic and propane. If you have PGE natural gas then you have the option of a pad mounted natural gas unit that comes on automatically. You may need to resort to essentials and lugging in bottles of water. I feel for you. We are in Norcal too and the state (I used to work for them) spends years telling everyone things are fine while the politicians chase their donor's wet dreams. Then when a crisis happens because no one is minding the barn door, everyone points fingers. In the meantime you just want the fridge, microwave, well, toilets to flush, and lights to work.
I live in a rural area of VA and during the winter it is not unusual to lose power for as much as a week due to snow and Ice storms. For near 40 years I have used a 5500 watt gas generator to good effect, if you watch what you have turned on. I didn't run it constantly, just to recharge the water captive air tank and heat the house a bit. I use an outside stove to heat the house with oil back up, but need to run the stove water pump and the blower inside to distribute the heat. A few years I replaced my 20 gallon draw down water tank with an 80 gallon tank, which gives a lot of water before needing a recharge. Now in my mid 70s trying to set up and start that generator is a bit of a problem. I put in a 20KV whole house generator fueled by a 500 gal propane tank. I do not run it on auto start, have it set to manual so I don't waste gas. On really cold days and nights with temps below zero, I put it on auto start/stop to keep the house warm. Installed it myself and have about 6K total investment, and I own the propane tank so I can get the best price on refills. When you think of a small wattage Honda costing 3K or so I consider what I have a bargain.
The problem you have is the well pump and the long outage time -- really is no solution other than matching the generator to the well pump and having enough fuel on hand.
It's not unusual for the old timers around me to have two generators -- a smaller one (Honda owns this market) for keeping basic stuff going inside the house and a larger unit for the well and sometimes septic pumps. With a larger water pump tank installed you don't need to run the larger generator full time ... Water use matches septic need.
I did a propane -- w/ 1K tank. Still have to watch usage and fuel consumption. Some generators use a lot of power at partial load
It's not unusual for the old timers around me to have two generators -- a smaller one (Honda owns this market) for keeping basic stuff going inside the house and a larger unit for the well and sometimes septic pumps. With a larger water pump tank installed you don't need to run the larger generator full time ... Water use matches septic need.
I did a propane -- w/ 1K tank. Still have to watch usage and fuel consumption. Some generators use a lot of power at partial load
CraigStu
Well-known member
We have a 6500 Honda non invertor. We have only used it in the summer so no experience w/ heating. In the Am we fired it up for 1.5 hours. Ran the well pump for washing/showering, then flipped that breaker off and the water heater breaker on. Then shut it all off and went to work. Came home 6 or so and ran it til 9-930. Never ran the well and water heater at the same time but would run one along w/ refrigerator, freezer, and a few lights. Water heater will keep warm for 36 hrs at least if not used. Frig and freezer about the same if not opened. I would really like to upgrade to an invertor unit because w/o it, the gen needs to run at something like 3600 rpm to supply the correct cycle current. Runs at 3600 just to power a light bulb. We really would have been much more comfortable at night if we could run just a fan but running at that speed is pretty noisy even at a tiny load.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
So running 2 window A/C units, approximately how many gallons do you consume in a 24 hour period ? How many actual running hours is that ?
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
I assume you mean this model
Your 120V loads must be well balance between the 2 legs because you are getting <15A per leg (continuously).
It would be nice if Honda (or someone else) made an inverter model with similar specs (3500W, 240V)
EDIT : This is the closest I can find.
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Falcon67
Well-known member
We use a EU7000is Honda and it should not have any problem starting a 1 HP 240V motor. It's quiet and it will manage it's RPM based on load, so running a fridge and a TV or so you'd hardly hear it and it'll run a way long time. We get 10 hrs more or less out of 5 gallons running a 15K AC unit and all the other stuff we use at the drag strip. Lights, battery charger, microwave, computer, fan, water pump, etc. If we stay overnight, I'll top it off around 9 or 10 and have plenty left at 8 AM, running the AC all night.
For a single Friday/Saturday race weekend and usually not using the AC on Friday, running from 6 - 10:30 or 11 PM, starting the gen around 10 AM Saturday. ending around 9 PM, I usually don't need to add any fuel at all. I'll fill it before we put it in the trailer for the trip home.
We used to run a Champion 6500 - good unit - and the Honda cut our fuel use in half or better.
For a single Friday/Saturday race weekend and usually not using the AC on Friday, running from 6 - 10:30 or 11 PM, starting the gen around 10 AM Saturday. ending around 9 PM, I usually don't need to add any fuel at all. I'll fill it before we put it in the trailer for the trip home.
We used to run a Champion 6500 - good unit - and the Honda cut our fuel use in half or better.
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Briggs makes a 240v inverter for less than an eu3000 and on sale, less than an eu2000
finn
Well-known member
Was the champion an inverter that idles down and ramps up to accommodate higher loads, or the old 3600 rpm constant speed design?
slow
Well-known member
Thats way louder than the hondas as well.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
We use a lot of Honda generators at work. They get serious hours put on them and are generally pretty reliable, although not 100% and about all of them end up needing repairs eventually.
For home use, if money were no object...or if I lived somewhere where I had regular outages, I would have a backup generator with an automatic transfer switch....and would hook it up to NG or Propane.
That begin said, money is an object to me and my power provider (Duke) has been very reliable, I have to say. So instead I cheaped out and bought this for less than $500:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SMNLF4M/?tag=atomicindus08-20
It's been through 2 power outages now. One only a few hours. The second maybe half a day. It provides enough power to run a couple of things at a time, like the sump pump plus a coffee maker plus an iphone charger. I even used it to run our kitchen fridge for an hour or so to get it back down to temperature during a longer outage.
Kind of a PIA. Kind of junky....but it has done the job. The problem I've had with standard (non-inverter) generators is I've blown up a couple of PC's power supplies with them over the years. I like the inverter style just for the reason I've never had any trouble burning up anything with them...and I have with "regular" generators...even with hondas.
One other thing on this Wen unit....it's so light I have used it to power tools (sawzall or whatnot) out in the yard instead of stringing 100-foot extension cord. It's faster for me to grab the generator and fire it up than it is to dig out the cord, get it unwound, and rewind it once done with the job.
Phil
For home use, if money were no object...or if I lived somewhere where I had regular outages, I would have a backup generator with an automatic transfer switch....and would hook it up to NG or Propane.
That begin said, money is an object to me and my power provider (Duke) has been very reliable, I have to say. So instead I cheaped out and bought this for less than $500:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SMNLF4M/?tag=atomicindus08-20
It's been through 2 power outages now. One only a few hours. The second maybe half a day. It provides enough power to run a couple of things at a time, like the sump pump plus a coffee maker plus an iphone charger. I even used it to run our kitchen fridge for an hour or so to get it back down to temperature during a longer outage.
Kind of a PIA. Kind of junky....but it has done the job. The problem I've had with standard (non-inverter) generators is I've blown up a couple of PC's power supplies with them over the years. I like the inverter style just for the reason I've never had any trouble burning up anything with them...and I have with "regular" generators...even with hondas.
One other thing on this Wen unit....it's so light I have used it to power tools (sawzall or whatnot) out in the yard instead of stringing 100-foot extension cord. It's faster for me to grab the generator and fire it up than it is to dig out the cord, get it unwound, and rewind it once done with the job.
Phil
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
It is all relative. Way quieter than non inverter, louder than top of the line inverter. Not a reqlly valid comparison anyway since one is 240v and the Hondas are only 120v
My neighbor has a 7kw honda inverter. You can't hear it running over my ridgid non inverter when i stand in his driveway, even though mine is 150' away. The briggs would be a massive improvement
slow
Well-known member
the 7kw honda inverter is 240, but at a much higher price point.
Falcon67
Well-known member
Pretty much anything at 5500w and above is 120/240. The only 120v I've had was the 3500/4000 Champion. Also a nice unit and not terribly loud. It would also start and run an old 13.5K BTU RV unit that pulled every bit of 20A running in 100F weather.
The Champ 6500 is good - and you can hear it two blocks away. More if after dark. Easy to pick out at the track from the other gennys even at 600'.
I've had low cost and big $, I'll take the Honda for $4000, thanks. If I want to hear loud noises, that's why I own a dragster.
Nothing worse than being parked next to someone using an open frame Predator 5500. Loud as hell.
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Falcon67
Well-known member
PS - I run $1000 worth of computer and weather station at the track off the Honda with no issues. Good clean power.
03ranger
Well-known member
What size breaker is the well pump on? Why, my well is a 3hp, 240 volt, single phase.The breaker is a 50 amp breaker and the distribution pump is 1.5 hp, 240 volt, single phase on a 30 amp breaker. I need a minimum of a 11000 watt generator just to run the well pump and 6600 watts for the distribution pump. If I what to run just the Well pump and the distribution pump is adds up to 17,000 watts.
Before guessing what size generator, do your homework and know what size pump you have, and determine how much other power you need. if you need to convert amps to watts use the calculator:
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Amp_to_Watt_Calculator.html
Before guessing what size generator, do your homework and know what size pump you have, and determine how much other power you need. if you need to convert amps to watts use the calculator:
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Amp_to_Watt_Calculator.html
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finn
Well-known member
So is the Champ 6500 an inverter or not?Pretty much anything at 5500w and above is 120/240. The only 120v I've had was the 3500/4000 Champion. Also a nice unit and not terribly loud. It would also start and run an old 13.5K BTU RV unit that pulled every bit of 20A running in 100F weather.
The Champ 6500 is good - and you can hear it two blocks away. More if after dark. Easy to pick out at the track from the other gennys even at 600'.
I've had low cost and big $, I'll take the Honda for $4000, thanks. If I want to hear loud noises, that's why I own a dragster.
Nothing worse than being parked next to someone using an open frame Predator 5500. Loud as hell.
California power is cutting power to avoid fires.
Unintended consequences...........1000’s will now be using gas powered generators. User errors like Fuel spills, refueling while running and operating to close to combustible materials might actually make the fire problem worse.
Unintended consequences...........1000’s will now be using gas powered generators. User errors like Fuel spills, refueling while running and operating to close to combustible materials might actually make the fire problem worse.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Their concern isn't with starting fires, it is about reducing liability. If someone starts a fire with a generator, it isn't their fault
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
Falcon67
Well-known member
No, open frame conventional.
https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/100109-6500-watt-generator/
Dang, those new model EU7000s are even more $$$$.
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SGKent
Banned
depending on how deep the well is, it might cost less to have a small backup well installed with a 120V pump that a less expensive and more efficient generator can run to give enough water to get by on those blackout days. At 5 gallons gas per 10 hours you will be running to the gasoline station a lot. Run the small water pump in the backup well until you have enough water for the day. Then run it to cool the refrigerator and charge I-phone, get computer work done, and at night for lights, dinner etc. The rest of the time leave it off. That way you conserve fuel, run time, and get the essentials. The state is starting controlled burns just up the hill from us in a couple weeks - will be interesting to see if they control them or oops. The current gov, assembly and senate in Sacramento are using the tax money surplus like drunken sailors, and ignoring the issues that citizens would like resolved - like this power issue. Lots of services at the state level are being contracted out to political friends. Its all about money and the guy like you isn't thought about by these people as long as they have a majority from certain communities, and tech money to fund their campaigns. It would be nice to see every citizen here have reliable power - let alone from things like renewable sources. Hope you find a solution. Maybe several neighbors could go together on solutions.
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barnee
Well-known member
I'm stuck in the same boat as most on here. When I upgraded my home electrical service I had my electrician rewire my house panel to have a sub panel with all of the circuits that I would want to run during an outage. The panel has a manual isolation switch and then is then back fed by an exterior generator connection point which is 30amp/240V.
I can run all circuits with a 7000w generator, or I can shut off certain circuits at times and use a smaller generator.
Just cant decide if I should go 7000 cheap and noisy, 7000 expensive and quiet, or 3000 expensive and quiet but more circuit flipping (and have the electrician change the feed to 120V). I rarely lose power, but when it happens I curse my indecision.
Somebody has to solve this issue.
I can run all circuits with a 7000w generator, or I can shut off certain circuits at times and use a smaller generator.
Just cant decide if I should go 7000 cheap and noisy, 7000 expensive and quiet, or 3000 expensive and quiet but more circuit flipping (and have the electrician change the feed to 120V). I rarely lose power, but when it happens I curse my indecision.
Somebody has to solve this issue.