Gas line question for plumbers

[Tucko]

I got a leak in my main gas line to the street. Sadly, the meter is at the street, making ME responsible for all piping on my property. Normally I would replace the whole main line, because my house was built in 1922 and I have no idea how old the gas line is. The problem is that I don't just have a normal flat front lawn. I have a retaining wall about 6 feet up from sidewalk level, and there would be LOTS of digging involved, thus raising the price. However, I know the general area where the leak is coming from, and it's in an accessible part of the yard. Repairing the line in about a 10 foot section is much cheaper than doing all the digging, etc to replace the whole thing. My question is whether a repair would hold up over time, and whether it might lead to a future leak somewhere else. Should I repair, or bite the bullet and open the bank account to replace the whole line.There's about a $2500 difference in price....Meter is at the sidewalk, right in front of my truck...

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I'm not a plumber.

I would advise you to call your gas company and report the gas leak. They may provide assistance to verify the leak is on your line and not on their gas main or may have an option for you that would be more palatable. I know when by inlaws had a similar situation their gas company actually moved their meter up to their house for them and they only had to pay for the tie in.

Now....if the leak is on your piping, our gas company will definitely shut your gas off until the situation is made safe with a leak clamp or a leak repair.

As far as repair vs replace....You need to send a couple of pictures of the excavated service line documenting what it's made out of and how bad the situation is. It might be as simple as a leak on a weld or connector. It might be rusted to the point half the wall is gone. You have to shut off, dig it up, and see.

And don't forget to call 811. Friday's a holiday for some...so you're likely looking at Monday before your ticket is good depending upon your state laws. If they allow you to, call it in as an emergency ticket. A gas leak should qualify and that will get you priority.

Gas leaks are dangerous. Call the gas company. They'll be there in a few minutes.

Phil

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

 

[Tucko]

All that's been done. Gas is shut off and locked out by the Gas Co. I've gotten 4 quotes already, and think I'll go with a full re-pipe. I don't want any problems down the line....Oh well, there goes my vintage car fund.....

 

[ishiboo]

If it's PE pipe, it would essentially last forever if repaired. I'm guessing it's not poly though.

With that front yard, I'd look into directional boring. They can put a hole where your meter is and bore up and come within an inch of your house with new poly pipe.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

That's fine to get it replaced.

I'm just suggesting that I personally would not make that call without digging up the leak to see just what's up with it. It would involve digging carefully in the area of the line (after getting the rest of the utilities located) to expose the leak and the pipe on each side a couple of feet. If I was right there...I'd have it exposed for you in less than an hour. There's a good chance that it is less than 2 feet deep.

Might need a leak clamp. Might need a whole new service line.

Impossible for me to say without more information.

I agree with you that replacing the whole service line WILL fix the problem. Just hate to see you spend enough to buy a good used car without being 99% sure that's what it needs.

Phil

 

[ard]

With that front yard, I'd look into directional boring. They can put a hole where your meter is and bore up and come within an inch of your house with new poly pipe.

This

 

[mm08822]

I remember my parent's gas provider putting a sleeve inside the original steel(?) gas laterals from the main all the way into the house. They did this for the entire street. Houses were 25 - 30+ years old at that time. It worked flawlessly for the next 15 years that I know of.

Ask if that is an option for your situation.

 

[Tucko]

Update: I've been digging. In the general area where the leak is, the pipe is at least 3 feet deep (haven't found it yet). There's a wide area of smelly, clammy, claylike dirt. I knew the dirt was weird here years ago, but never thought much of it...I think this leak has been going on for YEARS, and the smell finally broke the surface, and I could smell gas in the air. I'm looking forward to a substantial drop in my gas bill....

 

[rburke65]

I had rental property years ago and the gas line went away on Thanksgiving day. Literally had gas bubbles erupting from the dirt! Such fun!

 

[Never Too Old To Learn]

What size of pipe is coming off the meter?If you have a large enough pipe,and your gas load allows you may be able to insert csst into the existing pipe.Do not under any circumstance use too small a pipe,or you will starve your appliances of fuel.Distance pressure and load will dictate pipe size,you could contact your local code authority for guidance.

 

[ddawg16]

If it's much further down....you might be better off renting a small back hoe for a day....

$500? or less....then the cost of the pipe

Or do like the plumber is going to do....hire some of those 'undocumented' workers to do the grunt work. Plenty of them in your area.

 

[prostreetamx]

Went through something similar with my main water feed. There was a leak somewhere but it was very deep since it was ran with the sewer line. After several hours of digging in very wet clay I realized that since I knew where both ends of the line were that I really did not have to find the leak. I ran a new line from the meter to the house and tied into the stub at the house after cutting it away from the original feed. A few years ago the entire house was replumbed under a class action suit for defective plumbing but that did not include the feed from the meter to the house. Most of my neighbors have gone the repair the leak method and have had to have the main fixed several times before just replacing it completely like I did the first time. If I was you I would just rent a walk behind trencher and just completely bypass the bad main feed. You don't need to fix it and just have it leak in a new spot later. Dig a new trench to your code depth and use a modern replacement line and forget it. Probably cheaper and will last much longer in the long run.

 

[ddawg16]

Went through something similar with my main water feed. There was a leak somewhere but it was very deep since it was ran with the sewer line. After several hours of digging in very wet clay I realized that since I knew where both ends of the line were that I really did not have to find the leak. I ran a new line from the meter to the house and tied into the stub at the house after cutting it away from the original feed. A few years ago the entire house was replumbed under a class action suit for defective plumbing but that did not include the feed from the meter to the house. Most of my neighbors have gone the repair the leak method and have had to have the main fixed several times before just replacing it completely like I did the first time. If I was you I would just rent a walk behind trencher and just completely bypass the bad main feed. You don't need to fix it and just have it leak in a new spot later. Dig a new trench to your code depth and use a modern replacement line and forget it. Probably cheaper and will last much longer in the long run.

that is a good approach....

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Update: I've been digging. In the general area where the leak is, the pipe is at least 3 feet deep (haven't found it yet). There's a wide area of smelly, clammy, claylike dirt. I knew the dirt was weird here years ago, but never thought much of it...I think this leak has been going on for YEARS, and the smell finally broke the surface, and I could smell gas in the air. I'm looking forward to a substantial drop in my gas bill....

Look for green dirt.

 

[ljhhontx]

I work as a service tech for a gas utility and you have received some good advice so far but I would reitterate one who said ask the gas utility what they can do for you. We would definitely run the line to the house cheaper than the plumbers quote, usually $300 plus $3.50 a foot. Another option would be if the existing line is large enough having plumber insert plastic line inside it and if it is too small you could use smaller line like 1/2" cts and having gas delivery changed to 2# and installing another regulator on houseline at house. Lots of options you just have to ask the right people the questions, the plumber will only give you the ones he knows will make him money or that he has done before.

 

[e36jon]

Sounds like you have things under control.

For contrast, when I contacted my local service provider for help with my original gas line from the valve (4' into my yard from the sidewalk) to my meter (located inside my garage, less than 10' total.) it turned into a nightmare. Instead of replacing the line for me, like they appear to be doing 'for free' one block at a time all around me, they wanted me to pay for everything, including moving the meter to the front of the house or building an elaborate enclosure for it in the garage. It was going to cost me $5,500 just to have them weld a new "T" to their main so that they can change over to polyethylene. Plus a permit. Plus all the other labor and parts. So, an easy $7K to me for ~10' of new line to replace an original 1946 steel line buried in beach sand...

I gave up and have been working on other projects hoping they'll get to my neighborhood.

Good luck!

Jon

 

[Tucko]

Not really a job for a trench digger. They had to go straight down about 7 feet to get underneath the sidewalk, from above the retaining wall. I think the original gas line is from 1922....

 

[engineer2]

Around here they either pull a new PEX gas line inside the old one, or use a pipe puller to pull a new one underground next to the old one. No digging involved and it's fast.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I wouldn't pull a plastic gas line through an existing rotted out steel line,I've seen a plastic gas line that was slit open from being drug across a rough sewer pipe.
Nobody notified it till I dug up the sewer a few years later to figure out why it wasn't working.

 

[ljhhontx]

I wouldn't pull a plastic gas line through an existing rotted out steel line,I've seen a plastic gas line that was slit open from being drug across a rough sewer pipe.
Nobody notified it till I dug up the sewer a few years later to figure out why it wasn't working.

We pull plastic through steel all the time, test to 100# when done and very seldom (less than 1%) problem.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

We pull plastic through steel all the time, test to 100# when done and very seldom (less than 1%) problem.

It ***** to be the 1% though.

 

[ljhhontx]

It ***** to be the 1% though.

Not really, you have tried the very easiest cheapest method and all you have done is opened both ends of the excavation you have to ditch now. The problem I refer to is not being able to get the line through or something cutting the new line which is very rare. You referred to a line being cut going through a sewer line, this is obviously during a boring process (the most expensive method) not insertion, two different methods, still detectable by pressure testing though. This is not brain surgery and natural gas is not dynamite, if you use common sense you will be fine.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Not really, you have tried the very easiest cheapest method and all you have done is opened both ends of the excavation you have to ditch now. The problem I refer to is not being able to get the line through or something cutting the new line which is very rare. You referred to a line being cut going through a sewer line, this is obviously during a boring process (the most expensive method) not insertion, two different methods, still detectable by pressure testing though. This is not brain surgery and natural gas is not dynamite, if you use common sense you will be fine.

Ive been doing this a long time ,and havent blown anything up doing it my way.

 

[ljhhontx]

Ive been doing this a long time ,and havent blown anything up doing it my way.

Don't worry , do it however you want to and pay whatever you want to, I try to help out by advising based on my experience and there's always a smart alec that seems to know more, I think I'll just quit tryin, I don't go out and tell you how to mow grass but oh well, seeya...

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Don't worry , do it however you want to and pay whatever you want to, I try to help out by advising based on my experience and there's always a smart alec that seems to know more, I think I'll just quit tryin, I don't go out and tell you how to mow grass but oh well, seeya...

That's a 2 way street,I've got more than 30 years in the trade.
You do it your way and I'll do it mine,everybody will be happy.

 

[joneschase]

Call your utility companies street or service department.

The easiest most cost effective solution is to push plastic through your existing service line.
the catch to this is you would most likely need to be on a high pressure service.
pressure drop on a long run with UP systems would rule out 3/4 or 1/2 plastic service.
couple posi locks and tie into the house piping your good.

thats what we do at the gas company i work for.

 

[Never Too Old To Learn]

Inserting plastic through your existing steel line is a good way to go,you will have to use what is called a riser for anything above grade,I too worked for a utility company in Mi. and inserting through steel pipe is a standard practice,just make sure when job is complete that a pressure check is done in the proper manner and you will be all set,if you do not know how to do fuel line work then contact utility see if they would do the job or who they might recommend.

 

[rnscustom]

Dig up the leak area and see what's wrong , if it broke , fix it , if rotted pull a line thru . Do it the correct and cheapest way , get the hotrod and have some fun . I think those will be better stories for the grandkids than all the money you spent on the pipe . I know my kids can repeat mine while I tell them the same old stories .

 

[rnscustom]

Oops , vintage car not hotrod