Gas line questions

[supratreo]

hi, this seemed like the most appropriate place for my questions.
i just installed a outdoor kitchen on my deck and need to plumb gas to the BBQ and stove.
I had a gas line run out under the deck when it was built.
i now am going to Tee it off to each thing but i need to know if i need to install a drip leg and if so, where would be the best place. each gas line will end up having an elbow to shoot it up under each appliance so I'm assuming it would be right there. so a Tee with a drip leg.

second question. I've only worked with black pipe but i know that they have PE and CSST now but i haven't used it. what would you guys recommend? i like the idea of being able to cut to length and minimizing the number of fittings needed.

thank you

 

[Walkers]

Just use black iron, it is cheap, easy, and you already know how.
Unless you are in a region that sells oily gas, then you don't really need a drip leg. That said, it is just a tee instead of an elbow, and a ****** and cap instead of a plug. Easy and cheap, so if it adds to your job satisfaction, then add it.

 

[fitter30]

Drip leg can be under the deck where the penetrate up. Drip leg should always be piped on the run of the tee not the bull (side outlet).

 

[supratreo]

thank you for the replies.
if needed then yes it would be on each Tee. would it be at each point where the line goes up to the appliance or just at the final appliance?
not just questioning for this project but for general knowledge aswell.

 

[supratreo]

also, this is for propane no NG if it matters.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Agree with above.

Just for future info, PE (Polyethylene) can be used for gas (propane or NG) if the pipe is labeled for gas but only for buried service. The buried line has to switch over to steel before it comes above ground. PE doesn't play nicely with sunshine, as UV rays will degrade it. It doesn't play nicely with mowers, trimmers, lawn darts either. It can be easily punctured....thus it can only be used underground where several inches of dirt keep it protected.

I'm not a fan of CSST. You would need to read and understand the manufactuer's installation manual before beginning. Once you started reading up on the requirements, you'd come to the bonding section and realize you'd be required to run a heavy gauge bond wire from your csst back to your main electrical panel. CSST doesn't play nice with puncture threats either. A misplaced deck nail or screw would easily penetrate it.

Black pipe, properly installed with a quality pipe dope (aka thread sealant) like Rectorseal #5 has been the go to solution with gas for about 100 years for a reason. It's robust, resists damage, and should provide decades of reliable service. I'd paint it once installed to protect against rusting. That will make it last 100 years instead of just 50 years....and it will look a lot nicer.

 

[supratreo]

thanks guys. no to hit the supply house a couple times.

 

[vga]

Black iron pipe with Rector seal 5 on threads

 

[Death Row Dave]

For sure use drip leg on propane . Propane wants to return to where it came from , liquid waxy crude . The weight of the droplets and contaminations will cause it to collect in the leg instead of your burner . Please use caution when lighting a propane burner , ignition source before gas . LPG is heavier than air it will collect in the appliance and light with a bang if your lucky , nothing including you will be harmed .

I worked 36 years standing on top of a 9 million gallon liquid propane cavern , I vaporized at the rate of 900 + gallons a minute for many years in a peakshaving Plant . Leaks will be located outside by Mother Nature , 100s of flys swarming the leak . This stuff is a different animal , it’s a liquid that is lighter than water , changes to a gas at - 44* that is heavier than air , it maintains 100 psi when contained in a container as in pipe , tank , cavern , tanker truck , etc .

 

[supratreo]

thank you guys for your wisdom.
one question for sealant tho. i always use Rector seal #5 for small gas fittings at work (1/8npt valves) so i have a tube of it but def wont be enough for this job. also its tube so no brush. i do have a bottle of Tru-Blu, would this be ok to use?

 

[Walkers]

thank you guys for your wisdom.
one question for sealant tho. i always use Rector seal #5 for small gas fittings at work (1/8npt valves) so i have a tube of it but def wont be enough for this job. also its tube so no brush. i do have a bottle of Tru-Blu, would this be ok to use?

Totally fine for what you are doing.

 

[Adk Mike]

I did what your doing a couple years ago. Propane regulator on the house. I tapped into the high pressure side. Run half inch poly outside underground to a new regulator installed on the deck.
Hooked up my grill etc from there.
I came from the outside and stayed outside.
If you come from inside the house it’s low pressure. That’s different . No second regulator .
It would be nice if you knew a gas guy that could size the pipe for you.

 

[Firebrick43]

CSST has many flavors. Its a terrible product in my opinion. Some need sleeved/in a chase/conduit to be installed out side and some has a UV resistant sleeve and does not. Almost all of it needs a sleeve if passing through a wall. And as others have importantly indicated needs bonded. Most of the UV resistant sleeves are black vs the older yellow. Manufactures installation instructions must be followed. Its amazing how little of it follows the instructions.

I did what your doing a couple years ago. Propane regulator on the house. I tapped into the high pressure side. Run half inch poly outside underground to a new regulator installed on the deck.
Hooked up my grill etc from there.
I came from the outside and stayed outside.
If you come from inside the house it’s low pressure. That’s different . No second regulator .
It would be nice if you knew a gas guy that could size the pipe for you.

Pipe sizing from Rego

https://www.regoproducts.com/liquid-propane-gas/field-topics/sizing-propane-piping-systems/

 

[PoorUB]

If you come from inside the house it’s low pressure. That’s different . No second regulator .

That is not entirely true. You can still have 2 PSI gas pressure inside the home and need a regulator. It depends on your system. Running higher gas pressure inside the home is getting very popular as all the piping can be smaller and many times 1/2" CSST will handle the load.

So just cautioning people that you may still need a regulator if you connect to the gas line inside the home. Easiest way to find out is to check existing appliances, no other regulators, most likely low pressure gas inside the home.

 

[Adk Mike]

2 PSI systems are fine you are correct. I’d leave that up to LP Gas service people. It works I’ve done a few. The regulators are often blue in color and the system is marked 2 PSI on the piping .
Great way to do it in a commercial application like a motel or bus garage as an example. Each appliance in these systems has a regulator called a Maxi Trol installed.
I wouldn’t think it wouldn’t be needed in this application.

 

[Innovate1]

Interesting. I have some CSST runs in my house. House was built in 2004 - apparently before the requirement that CSST be bonded. I need to look at the details but shouldn't be too hard to do bonding. Most of the system is black iron but a couple places the final run is CSST. One is to the deck BBQ. They used a pipe section that includes a flange for mounting and a 90 degree bend. They just screwed the flange to the bottom of the deck boards. Which traps moisture. I drilled a couple holes in the flange so the water at least has somewhere to go - it is mounted in the middle of a board so the hole in the board is a cup that will hold water. It's a bit rusty after all these years but not terrible.

 

[toyotadriver]

I used CSST in my house when we built it. I did bond it per the instructions and also installed it per the manufacturer's instructions. No issues to date. I used black iron pipe to a manifold and then ran the CSST to where I needed it. I did take steps to protect it within the walls from screws and nails. No complaints so far.

 

[Firebrick43]

I used CSST in my house when we built it. I did bond it per the instructions and also installed it per the manufacturer's instructions. No issues to date. I used black iron pipe to a manifold and then ran the CSST to where I needed it. I did take steps to protect it within the walls from screws and nails. No complaints so far.

Most people don’t have issues with it until a lightning strike holes it and burns their house down

 

[toyotadriver]

Most people don’t have issues with it until a lightning strike holes it and burns their house down

I've seen a few houses struck by lightning in my lifetime and if my house gets struck by lightning, issues with the gas lines are just one of many issues I'll have to deal with. So, I don't lose any sleep over it.

 

[Firebrick43]

Installed properly it shouldn't happen. I've seen a few houses struck by lightning in my lifetime and if my house gets struck by lightning, issues with the gas lines are just one of many issues I'll have to deal with. So, I don't lose any sleep over it.

If its installed correctly itHopefully will mitigate it. That is a high voltage to run along a very thin stainless steel corrugated pipe

When I took the class to be a certified installer in gastite (which our company will not do, but we have to inspect systems of customers) the Gastite rep said he wouldn't suggest using the standard yellow jacket csst. There is a newer product out called flash shield which has a woven grounding loom in the black jacket so the stainless pipe itself doesn't have to carry the current. Even then, he has black iron in his house. The flash shield is all we will recommend if customers think they have to use csst but we always encourage black iron.

Black iron is all we will install in a house if we do it and PE or copper underground to the second stage regulator.

We had a customer have a lightning strike and hole the pipe. Luckily right above it was a pex water pipe that it melted and doused the fire. Still did lots of water damage