Gas Station as a garage
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Chuckster in NJ
Well-known member
As long as the underground tanks are pulled and any hazardous waste is gone I say you are good to go.
BTW! "IF" you are serious about this, hire a CERTIFIED environmental engineer and get his finding in writing......... May be nothing but you want to make sure the building and site is clean.
BTW! "IF" you are serious about this, hire a CERTIFIED environmental engineer and get his finding in writing......... May be nothing but you want to make sure the building and site is clean.
cool idea. as mentioned be careful of environmental issues.
There have been threads on here with people doing the same thing.
There have been threads on here with people doing the same thing.
Donzi camino
Well-known member
cool idea....but i kind of like just walking 10ft. to get to mine. Now if it was golf cart close then maybe.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Chuckster in NJ said:
Chuckster in NJ said:
A friend of mine has been renting a 1947 "Union 76" gas station for over 25 years, and uses it for his business.
The owner offered to sell it to him - cheap - but because there was no documentation that the two issues Chuckster mentioned above had been addressed, he very wisely declined.
At the corner of 38th & Pacific (southeast corner of the intersection) is a large vacant piece of real estate, which has been surrounded by 6-foot chain-link fencing for over 30 years since the demolition of the dry cleaners that used to occupy the site. The operators of the dry cleaners dumped their solvents right out the back door for decades. I will be long gone before they build on that parcel.
Make sure the site is going to pass inspection with your local environmental compliance agencies before proceeding.
TriumphFan
Well-known member
I would worry about security...
A college professor or a guest lecture I had in college who was recently retired from engineering specializing in remediation remarked that dry cleaners from that era were one of the worst things to deal with from a remediation standpoint and had several things going against them.
For awhile the chemicals were very nasty, they were often in retail/biz strips with lots of surrounding structures and the businesses could come/go relatively easily and not leave much of a record for down the road. Compared to gas stations, refineries, industrial facilities you knew what was going on there and what to look for...dry cleaners were just another 40 or 50' wide business front and nobody thought much about what happens to the stuff that makes the clothes get clean
Consider all things first, tanks gone/cleaned up. Are the bays really much bigger than a vehicle with no work area ? What is it zoned ? 2 restrooms, plumbing issues ? How's the electrical. commercial or residential rate ?
Been there, done that and still there.
Been there, done that and still there.
Have no windows for the garage. Install security cameras and an alarm system.
Environmental engineer is a very good idea. Always good to inspect the building and site.
walta
Well-known member
In general property zoned for commercial use sell for more money than any other type.
Everything about commercial costs more. Yes the tax rate is higher. Yes every utility is more expensive. Yes insurance is more expensive if you do not live on site.
Sometime living your dreams is worth paying extra.
Walta
Everything about commercial costs more. Yes the tax rate is higher. Yes every utility is more expensive. Yes insurance is more expensive if you do not live on site.
Sometime living your dreams is worth paying extra.
Walta
txvwnut
Well-known member
There’s a few members on here that have old gas stations as their garage.
Kmp259
Well-known member
Get a EPA Phase I survey of the site.....if bad stuff found....then run.....
softailgarage
Well-known member
If I had the money I would buy an old station along Rt.66, restore it to its original glory and do it like the old days. Guys in uniform, pump your gas, clean the windows, check the air and oil. There was a program that was part of a re-vitalize Rt.66 where the government would cover half the cost of the restoration, however you had to have your half up front. It would have to be done in a city still active of course, somewhere like Kingman, Az. or even San Bernardino. The problem with the more populated places is all the old stations have been torn down unlike the little podunk towns where they can still be found. Anything in Calif. would be a waste due to EPA and state B.S. I still think it would be fun and could be highly profitable IF done in the right place. I would just be happy with restoring a station and using it as my private workshop.
nadogail
Well-known member
A very pleasant pipe dream, but I don't think it is appropriate for my needs. I would like to "fly below the regulatory RADAR".
kaymccampbell
Well-known member
I could enjoy living in a Podunk town along 66, and puttering in a restored-ish gas station. Guess I could sleep in the tire room with the air compressor.
four.cycle
Well-known member
NUTTSGT said:
in the 1947 "Union 76" station I mentioned above:
Only the ladies' restroom is still functional. The plumbing in the mens' rest room was hopelessly clogged up.
The slop sink in the garage, which had been used as a parts washer by a previous tenant, is completely unusable.
The plumbing is all under the concrete slab on which the building sits.
The electrical system is so flakey that trying to turn on the old oil furnace or the compressor or the lift blows all the breakers.
(Only one lift was working about 15 years ago, but after it dropped suddenly one day we decided it was best to not use it any more.)
If my other friend hauls his 120-volt compressor down there to do a job, most of the rest of the electrical has to be shut off first.
You would want to make sure to turn all the faucets on and off, flush all the toilets, check all the drains, and make sure the electrical system is at least functional.
quickfarms
Well-known member
I have found multiple garages in Southern California that have either been built of renovated to look like an old service station without all the environmental issues. The advantage of building it is you can tailer the structure to your use
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
No way I would do this. Too many potential pitfalls.
TriumphFan
Well-known member
L5wolvesf
Well-known member
This because they are the last word in toxic clean ups.
Yes, that has always been a dream of mine. You see the old service stations along the old highways in the old towns around here, would be great to use as a car shop.
I know the federal LUST (leaky underground storage tank) program shut down a lot of the stations, plus the advent of convenience shops vs. car service stations.
A lot of them seem to have just shut down with no clean up or remediation. Don't know what triggers the need to cleanup/remediate--transfer of property? request for a permit where you break ground for anything?
I know the federal LUST (leaky underground storage tank) program shut down a lot of the stations, plus the advent of convenience shops vs. car service stations.
A lot of them seem to have just shut down with no clean up or remediation. Don't know what triggers the need to cleanup/remediate--transfer of property? request for a permit where you break ground for anything?
quickfarms
Well-known member
A lot of the old stations just had the tanks emptied and are now full of contaminated rain water.
While working you would not believe the number of tanks I have discovered. Approximately 50% there was no record of the tank.
If you do find an old station you are interested in I would suggest that you do your research and find some old photos to try to locate the tanks and or previous station if there is no surface evidence.
I have worked on several sites that at one point in there life were service stations and found forgotten tanks.
One gas station we demolished due to highway expansion. We removed the current tanks but during the remediation found the footings for the original building and several 500 gallon tanks.
On an industrial site they were having issues with the concrete in one driveway and we found a tank under the driveway
It is always fun when one of the track hoes has black goo dripping off of the bucket
I could just keep going, the skunkworks was interesting
Personally in addition to environmental I would do full utility detection and GPR on the site
While working you would not believe the number of tanks I have discovered. Approximately 50% there was no record of the tank.
If you do find an old station you are interested in I would suggest that you do your research and find some old photos to try to locate the tanks and or previous station if there is no surface evidence.
I have worked on several sites that at one point in there life were service stations and found forgotten tanks.
One gas station we demolished due to highway expansion. We removed the current tanks but during the remediation found the footings for the original building and several 500 gallon tanks.
On an industrial site they were having issues with the concrete in one driveway and we found a tank under the driveway
It is always fun when one of the track hoes has black goo dripping off of the bucket
I could just keep going, the skunkworks was interesting
Personally in addition to environmental I would do full utility detection and GPR on the site
Quickfarms is right on the money. I used to do Phase I and Phase II ESAs. There are circumstances under which I would buy an old gas station. You just have to have your Is dotted and Ts crossed. In fact I have had my eye in one for years.
And yes, dry cleaners are the worst.
And yes, dry cleaners are the worst.
Ray-CA
Well-known member
Kind of along the same line if thought. I would love to buy an old fire station for a live in garage/home space. Like in "Spencer for Hire".
I'll now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
Ray
Sent from my LM-X220PM using The Garage Journal mobile app
I'll now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.
Ray
Sent from my LM-X220PM using The Garage Journal mobile app
dwall174
Well-known member
And then people would line up to come check it out!
A little bit off topic, But here in the Detroit Metro Area we have a cool place that brings back those old memories!
The Vinsetta Garage once was a old gas/service station that got into working on old classic cars. They converted the place into a restaurant & it's been doing great!
Doug
Monza Harry
Well-known member
Doug could you post up where that is at I'd like to try it out if we ever can cross the border again. That burger and Mac'n,cheese is really got a craving going now! Thanx and we are months +/- of waiting away now. HarryAnd then people would line up to come check it out!
A little bit off topic, But here in the Detroit Metro Area we have a cool place that brings back those old memories!
The Vinsetta Garage once was a old gas/service station that got into working on old classic cars. They converted the place into a restaurant & it's been doing great!
Doug
dwall174
Well-known member
It's a pretty popular place around here, Google "Vinsetta Garage" & you'll get a ton of information.
it's on Woodward Ave M-1 in Berkley Mi. just a few miles north of Detroit.
vinsettagarage.com
Doug
Some people posting here seem to know a lot about this, still curious, if there are underground tanks or biohazards from way back when, what triggers the need t clean up. If you buy an old gas station and you just do cosmetic and functional restoration will that trigger any clean up requirements?
seagravedriver
Well-known member
I know the area, and the potential problem. There is an old dry cleaners at 3rd Street NE and the RR tracks in downtown Puyallup. Still some cleanup going on there. It has been YEARS. The EPA has a memory like an elephant. You don't want someone else's problems/liability.
quickfarms
Well-known member
The issue is liability for the cleanup.
The cost for the cleanup keeps increasing.
The cost for the cleanup can cost more than the value of the property
I know several sites that are leased for pennies on the dollar due to environmental issues
The cost for the cleanup keeps increasing.
The cost for the cleanup can cost more than the value of the property
I know several sites that are leased for pennies on the dollar due to environmental issues
Pntyrmvr
Well-known member
Bank financing is always tricky with old gas stations.
My Dad was an oil guy. His stories would make you gasp.
“Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.”
My Dad was an oil guy. His stories would make you gasp.
“Talk is cheap. Whiskey costs money.”
It's going to depend what all you are doing. Bank financing, code of use/zoning or local AHJ.
Kmp259
Well-known member
Buyer Beware......part of your due diligence has to be research of the contaminated soil the building sits on.....if contaminated soil.....it has to be cleaned up prior to sale.....if not you become the responsible party.....
A better opportunity might be to look for Oil Change locations that have gone out of business.....most all had above ground tanks.....and lower level for easy maintenance on your vehicles...
A better opportunity might be to look for Oil Change locations that have gone out of business.....most all had above ground tanks.....and lower level for easy maintenance on your vehicles...
Oil change locations would be a cool idea as well.
Very jealous as I would love to buy an old service station for personal use, even though it defies conventional logic.
I do maintenance at a 105 year old hospital (still active) which has been added on to and changed a million times over the years. It has several active and retired UST both at the hospital itself and the other old buildings on campus. We've had Phase I and II ESA. We've also remediated and removed several tanks, mostly residential heating oil in a block of older homes we demolished for expansion. In my opinion having gone through this, the ESA's value is in assessing known tanks or known former tank locations. Even after an ESA II, the opportunity is still there to stumble across unknown issues, or have unknown issues discovered when you someday sell.
Luckily my hospital has good records of every phase of construction and it was built on known virgin land. Without drawings or an old-timer to ask, there may be tanks or former tank locations that are missed by ESA. I like the earlier suggestion of GPR. I guess service stations are generally small pieces of property which would really help, versus 15 acres of hospital grounds.
Besides UST issues, what did a service station do with used motor oil in the 1950's when there was a dusty field out back? There may be other issues. I'm still jealous.
I do maintenance at a 105 year old hospital (still active) which has been added on to and changed a million times over the years. It has several active and retired UST both at the hospital itself and the other old buildings on campus. We've had Phase I and II ESA. We've also remediated and removed several tanks, mostly residential heating oil in a block of older homes we demolished for expansion. In my opinion having gone through this, the ESA's value is in assessing known tanks or known former tank locations. Even after an ESA II, the opportunity is still there to stumble across unknown issues, or have unknown issues discovered when you someday sell.
Luckily my hospital has good records of every phase of construction and it was built on known virgin land. Without drawings or an old-timer to ask, there may be tanks or former tank locations that are missed by ESA. I like the earlier suggestion of GPR. I guess service stations are generally small pieces of property which would really help, versus 15 acres of hospital grounds.
Besides UST issues, what did a service station do with used motor oil in the 1950's when there was a dusty field out back? There may be other issues. I'm still jealous.
quickfarms
Well-known member
It is amazing what turns up when you do GPR
I have done small sites and complexes that are larger than your 15 acre site.
For planning we start with an aerial survey of the site and then do the GPR
The items the GPR finds are located using a combination of gps and conventional survey equipment and then added to the aerial survey
Back in the day it was common to demolish buildings but leave the utilities, pipes, tunnels, and foundations buried underground especially if they were going to use it as a parking lot
I have done small sites and complexes that are larger than your 15 acre site.
For planning we start with an aerial survey of the site and then do the GPR
The items the GPR finds are located using a combination of gps and conventional survey equipment and then added to the aerial survey
Back in the day it was common to demolish buildings but leave the utilities, pipes, tunnels, and foundations buried underground especially if they were going to use it as a parking lot
buzzworth
Well-known member
The old International Harvester plant in Louisville was such a toxic dump, they buried it under the west runway of the airport.
The former L&N railroad maintenence yard is under the parking lot for the UofL football complex.
And...the worst enviornmental dump is where L&N sent all of their chemicals for disposal, the Valley of the Drums.
This stuff is everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_the_Drums
The former L&N railroad maintenence yard is under the parking lot for the UofL football complex.
And...the worst enviornmental dump is where L&N sent all of their chemicals for disposal, the Valley of the Drums.
This stuff is everywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_of_the_Drums