Gate motor HEADACHES ! ! !...

[Mr Mushman]

Hello all

Got a "little headache" on my hands. Got a couple of gates made,10'x6' and 16'x6'. The wall is on the property line so are the gates, and now that it's all said and done and installed the "gate guy" (trying to be nice here ...) is telling me that the motors have to be installed on the outside of the wall and will be sticking out about 30" ... obviously that's not an option since the wall is ON the property line. His "solution" mounting the motors on top of the wall ?? that does not sound good at all, but then again I am NOT an expert ... Been driving around and started looking at other gates. It does not seem to be that big of a deal to install the motor on the inside so what are my options now, what motors would you recommend, what kind of set up would you go with ? besides getting mad at this hack, I am trying to stay cool, it is the Holiday Season after all and I am trying to be forgiving and all ... So needless to say, I need help.

Thank you so very much for any help or advice you can give me, I can definitely use it.

 

[iamironman]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your gate guy is pretty much right.

The operator connects to the gate with a length of chain that attaches to each end of the gate and uses a motor driven sprocket to pull the gate opened or closed. It isn't so much a matter of the operator having to be outside the wall as much as the operator has to be on the same side of the wall as the gates. If you could move the gates to the inside of the wall (which doesn't look feasible from your pics) then you could mount the operator inside as well.

One, not very good, option if you can't move the gates inside the wall would be to leave enough gap between the gate and wall to allow the chain room to run between the wall and gate. The bad news about that is twofold. You'd need somewhere around a 6" or more gap, and the operator would have to be mounted in the opening (travel lane) and the gate can't open past the operator, so you'd end up losing close to 3 feet of opening, maybe more depending on your operator.

From what I see in your pics his idea of mounting it on the wall is pretty much your second best solution. Which, as you already know, is not that good of a solution. Not only would it look out of place, if there's any movement of the operator from flexing of the wall or mounting system over time the operator is going to beat itself up and create maintenance and durability problems in the long run.The best fix would be to move the gates inside the wall and that would solve your operator location issues, but it looks like there's obstacles inside the wall that rule that out as well.

If I was installing your gates (which BTW is what I do for a living) in order of best to worst solution I would propose:

1) Move the gates to inside of the wall if there's room for them to slide. This would cure all your operator location issues.

2) Use a vertical pivot style operator. These swing the gate up vertically by pivoting at one end. The drawbacks with this are cost. They're not cheap, but any good operator system isn't cheap either, pivoting systems generally cost more. They also eat up quite a bit of space since they use either a counter weight or tension springs to lighten the load that the motor has to raise.

3) Swap over to a swing style gate instead of a slider. But this will create its own space issues.

4) Mount the operator on top of the wall, or on top of columns that raise it high enough to go over the wall. Make sure if you go this route that there's enough strength, however you mount it, for it to not flex.

At the risk of adding insult to injury if you live in an area where building code enforcement is strict, you could run in to issues with the gates creating a "pinch hazard" where they slide past the edge of the wall opening, if you keep your current set up.

As far as recommendations, once you pick your fix, ask yourself a few questions before you buy.

1) How many cycles (opening/closing) per day do you expect?
More cycles means a need for better quality, heavier duty systems.

2) Are power outages a regularly occurring issue?
If they are consider using a battery powered system. These run the operator off a battery that is kept charged by a transformer that's wired to AC power. So if power goes out you'll have so many cycles available before the battery goes dead.

3) Who needs access?
If you have frequent, and varied, visitors you'll want a keypad and intercom or keypad/telephony system that rings your (land line) phone.

If you need to let delivery or utility people in, but don't have a lot of other visitors you may be able to get by with just a keypad. Most keypads will give you x number of access codes so you can give each person their own code. The better ones allow you to program when (Day and time) those codes will allow access, so the UPS driver can't let themselves in at 4 AM and steal your stuff.

4) What about emergency services?
If there's more than one residence behind the gate some form of emergency access may be required by law. There's a couple of common ways to accomplish this, one way is a "SOS" or "siren operated sensor" that will open when an emergency vehicle uses the "yelp" setting on their siren. Another method is a "Knox Key" switch. This is similar to the emergency FD key switch in an elevator. The cheapest solution is a key box that houses a release key, or a release switch in a lock box for emergency personnel. You'll need to provide a key in advance to your FD/EMT/LEO.

As far as brands, some of the better ones are Chaimberlain, Elite, FAAC, and Universal Entry Systems. Viking has some good mid grade stuff with decent pricing. For the penny pinchers GTO Pro has some decent low cost systems.

As far as access/telephony/intercom systems Door King and Elite have some real good stuff. GTO pro, once again, is decent for the money.

Here's a link to one trade org that covers automated door and access control industry. I highly recommend looking through their Tech Bulletins, especially those about safety. Also look for info on UL325 guidelines for access control/gate installations. http://www.dasma.com/default.asp

Sorry for being so long winded, but there's a lot to gate installs that most folks don't think about till it's too late, which it would seem is already the case with your gates. Operator systems aren't cheap and you could actually save money in the long run by planning first and spending more money the 1st time vs. adding or changing things later on. Just trying to help.

Feel free to PM or email me if you have any more questions.

Brian
[email protected]
www.appironworks.com

 

[Mr Mushman]

Hello iamironman

Thank you very much for your prompt reply, I can't believe that's what you do for a living, what are the odds, that's great, thank you. I understand what you are saying, I see what my dilema is, and it also confirms every fear I had, unfortunately ... I just wish, HE would have paid more attention to the set up, when he came to look at what had to be done in the first place. The wall was not even up when he came, and he could have told us all of the details, location of the operators so and so forth, so we could have anticipated this ... but enough with the should have and could have ... it's a little late now, to say the least ...

The wall is a cinder block wall, grouted and very stout, so I think I would install the operator on top of the wall. Is there any kind of operator that works with a wheel that would roll on the side of the top rail of the gate ? it would eliminate chains and torque on the motor driven sprocket and it's axel ... I am trying to figure out a way to make it functional, long lasting and as little headache as possible in the long run ... In terms of use, the 16' gate would be used about a couple of times a day, going to work and coming back. In the worse case scenario, I could manually operate the 10' gate and forget about a motor on the smaller gate. My family and I would be the only ones using the gates, so no heavy traffic.

In terms of reversing the gates and putting them on the inside, it would resolve all my issues but unfortunately my set up would not allow me to do it because of the neighbors yards and space ...

I clearly see what my options are now, just gotta make a decision ...

Thank you very much for your advice and your time

I will contact you via PM

 

[2chipped]

You have a problem. I am a fence installer, and what I'm seeing isn't looking good The reason all roll gates are on the inside are many , vandalism,insurance liability( little johnys soccer ball rolls to the gate as it opens , he gets pinched and you get sued.) Our company just had a safety meeting about this issue. A lawyer in Fla was visiting daddy the judge, reached through the pedestrian rollgate to punch in the entrance code arm got stuck and she died. Daddy sued gate installer won 2mil, the opener co 200mil,garage door installer250k,all because it was improperly installed, theowner wanted it that way with no caution signs. If it was mine I would install the gate on the inside of wall or leave it off.my 2cts

 

[bimmer1980]

not knowing all the details of an opener and all that, but can you build a jack shaft and a bear mount so that chain and gear are where they should be, but the opener is on the inside of the wall?

It might be a little more work and custom fabrication, but aestheically it might look better.

and a few caution, pinch point signs would be worth it as well.......

 

[kbs2244]

I am thinking a stub welded to the inside of the gate at the point of the “far” wall.
Something for the chain to attach to.
You wouldn’t get a full opening,
the difference between the stub and the end of the gate would stick into the wall opening,
but it would keep a the mechanicals inside the fence and out of sight.

 

[iamironman]

You have a problem. I am a fence installer, and what I'm seeing isn't looking good The reason all roll gates are on the inside are many , vandalism,insurance liability( little johnys soccer ball rolls to the gate as it opens , he gets pinched and you get sued.) Our company just had a safety meeting about this issue. A lawyer in Fla was visiting daddy the judge, reached through the pedestrian rollgate to punch in the entrance code arm got stuck and she died. Daddy sued gate installer won 2mil, the opener co 200mil,garage door installer250k,all because it was improperly installed, theowner wanted it that way with no caution signs. If it was mine I would install the gate on the inside of wall or leave it off.my 2cts

Two big no-no's right there.

1) Automated access gates are for vehicles only, not pedestrians.
Most, if not all, places in the US by law or building code (really they're one and the same) require separate access for pedestrians out of any danger/crush/pinch zones created by the gates and operators.

2) All controls are to be mounted in such a location as to make it impossible to reach them from within any danger/crush/pinch zones. This is specifically targeted at the situation that 2chipped mentioned.

Seriously, any person who is considering an automated access gate needs to fully understand UL325. Any person installing them needs to fully comply with UL325 or they're just begging for a law suit. Is the profit on any job worth letting a property owner talk you into that liability? Is that profit worth some ones life? Uhh, no.

A true pro should take all these things into account from the get go, and educate their customers why you should do it right, or not do it at all.

 

[2chipped]

Iamironman you are right. I work for a coastal Ga fence co of which 70% is subdivision related, rollgates, and swing gates. 1% of our customers ask for setups that do not conform to code, no signs because they look ugly,rollgates for pedestrian gates, we install only to code if they don't want that we walk, if they accept ,we install, then take pics of every sign and safety system thats installed. Sometimesyou have to save people from themselves.

 

[little d]

ironman, not familure with a roll gate, but, and im just asking out of my own curiosity, couldent the installer cut a "box" out of the wall to install the opener?

 

[Mr Mushman]

Thanks bimmer1980 for the advice, I will definitely have at least a couple of "warning signs" out there, you never know there is always some "idiot" outhtere looking for an easy pay out, so I gotta protect myself.

Hey little d, I have to say that I thought about the same thing when this whole "nightmare" started, I'll have to look into it a little closer.

2chipped, you know I have to say that since there has been so much going on with the garage build, it never even came to mind that this gate thing would become such a big deal. The inspector has been to the work site a couple of times and has not mentioned anything about the gates, but I am definitely on your side regarding building to code, I don't want to deal with any more headaches, even though the whole thing has been going pretty smoothly I have had enough to deal with as it is ... Will keep you posted on the progress and the final result ...

Thank you once again to y'all for all your advice, time and help.

 

[RobSmith]

ARE You A Fat ******* ? Open them manually you lazy mug ! ( I'm in a **** stirring mood)
Ha Ha Ha Ha !

 

[TexasT]

Most, if not all, places in the US by law or building code (really they're one and the same) require separate access for pedestrians out of any danger/crush/pinch zones created by the gates and operators.

Building codes and laws are two very different things. While building codes can be adopted and turned into law, do not automatically assume that they made no changes to the wording upon adoption. Building codes are just guidelines until adopted by the local lawmaking bodies.

Great information though. who would have thought so much trouble could be wrought by not planning accordingly. HaHa