Gate Post stiffener nonviagra

[Viper98912]

A few other notes:

The reason people aren't calling you back is because you're just "some random guy with some small random problem" calling them. Most engineers/architects have "real" work problems to deal with (just being honest...) and most vendors/sellers/installers have no real business doing these types of calculations - they literally will just get it close on the order and then "shim it" in the field, if you get my point. This kind of reminds me of installing door frames in general in houses - they are always shimmed to get them square/plumb, because the 2x framing is never perfect enough. So for this kind of problem, this is a field-fit shim type of solution, that is normally only completed at the time of install by the installer. Once he's gone, he's gone. [Or when he's gone and you realize he did a crappy job, you get your tools out (like I do) and re-do it so it's better].

Nonetheless, don't be frustrated on people not returning your calls, as you're going to need to take this into your own hands (as you kind of are now). This is why I like this forum - just a bunch of guys willing to talk about solutions to our problems.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Awe come on man. Really.
So I waited in hopes, that 1 of 3 I was actually provided emails for, would help.
I wasn't sure if, so I waited to hear from each before moving on to the next. All were "friends of a friends friend" kinda thing, and went through forwarded emails, so I never had direct access to argue my case...
Nope, not a single one.
And the lame excuses were just awful too!
"I have a company umbrella policy that doesn't work for your state"
Seriously? I told him that I didn't need any seals, certification, or anything.
I don't need drawings or blueprints either.
"There is a lot of detail in Charlie’s nicely written report. If there is a specific analysis required, I would suggest contacting a local structural engineer. Kind regards" an analysis, no, I'm simply looking for a yes it sounds plausible or no it sounds like a waste of money.
And right now I don't even remember the 3rd.

I can only laugh at this point.
There's some UpWork site that has all kinds of side hustle gigs, people from Zimbabwe, Egypt, Pakistan and other countries that I can't spell, offering themselves as experts in their field, but I scoured looking for an explanation of the means of verification of their supposed certifications, and found nothing.
And like I want to give the Nigerian Prince who always has money to give me if I'd just wire him the payment for taxes and the money transfer first, he'd be very grateful and increase my payout, my credit card information. Besides, I simply don't want to give Isis my money today.
But it's so frustrating, knowing these knuckleheads are willing and might even be telling the truth about being able to crunch the numbers?
Ugh, and then there's the whole tube shortage!?!?
WTH, is Great America making a new tower ride exclusively out of 2.5" tube? How many things can really be made with ⅛"?
The other day supplier was a Ma & Pa type shop. Awesome place, had a little bit of everything for metalwork, and I'd love to go back, but they only had one piece, going rate price, but 10' was all.
Today's, giant warehouse, 50+ people on the shop floor, saws bigger than my truck.
"Ya, we got 17' of it, come after 3:30 Friday, we're putting together a big order."
Man, I think I was more excited about the 10 & 7 than getting to send the email. Until I wasn't.
Nope, only found 105"
FML
Had to ask the wife why she bought the $540 million lotto ticket, I mean with this dumb luck, did she really think we had a chance?
Please say a prayer and cross your fingers that I can at least get the epoxy tomorrow....
At least that guy is actually going out of his way to make life easier. Yes, I'll admit that it's shear coincidence, but still, he didn't have to be so kind, as to offer meeting on his off day in route to a personal trip. But he did, and I wish I knew him well enough to bring his favorite booze.

Oh, and I dropped some 2"PVC down the posts, and not one of them seem to have any cement inside. I set and plumbed the posts, then poured, knowing I'd have difficulty plumbing them in wet cement, knowing I'd have a poor connection should I fill them up with cement later. I didn't want that poor connection right at grade. So I was actually thrilled to know that it's all clear to use full length of the tube, when I find more.

OK, rant over, happy October everybody.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Alrighty, so I've got my epoxy, I've got 2 sections of steel tube, and the conditions are forecasted to be good for having at it.

I'll cut down the 126", and add a filler piece to the bottom of the post for the 105" round tube, to have them both around 115", so if I overflow the center of the steel tube, I don't overflow the galvanized and get messy and wasteful. My hinges are a few inches below the top edge so I have some wiggle room there.

I know the purpose of this is to aid strength and reduce bending, but I'm wondering about drilling a few holes, maybe ⅜" in the steel to allow a much easier pour with an upside down construction cone as a funnel into the center of the steel, and some below grade perforations to allow the epoxy to seep into the galvanized void around the steel and to eventually self level.
I'm not so interested in filling the steel, but filling the steel/galvanized gap, which isn't very large. Large enough to have a space, but tight enough that I will be needing a mallet for persuading the steel tubing all the way down.

I've also been tossing around the idea of pouring in just over half the expected compound prior to shoving in the steel?
I believe I'll have a difficult time dripping in the 1/16" gap, and down a full 10', and that's where the few random ⅜" holes come into play.
I know perforations aren't going to strengthen anything, but for 2.5" round ⅛" round steel tube that's 10' long, I'm not sure if a spiral pattern of ⅜" holes, staggered every 18" would take a tremendous amount of rigidity out?
Remembering that the supplier of the epoxy thinks his product alone should be enough???

 

[Max78]

Seems like an interesting problem you have.

Edit: You are filling the gaps of the tubes that nest together that fit tight enough to need some persuasion to fully seat.

I managed to stiffen up some crappy galvanized posts I anchored a shade sail to by filling it with rebar. Rebar is bendy alone, but once bundled they get ridged very quick.

Perhaps filling with rebar, and pouring epoxy to fill the gaps and tie everything together?

Is the epoxy going to have the viscosity to adequately fill all of the small voids and truly bond the pieces together?

Also, be sure to share pictures of the process!

 

[Old Fart]

I hope you didn't buy the DOM tubing you mentioned..... that's spendy stuff for what you are doing.
In a bending situation, I would use square tubing (which IS more expensive than pipe, but has less resistance to bending. Use at least 1/8" wall, preferably thicker) with the sides inline with the direction of bending.
Drilling holes will help fill the cavity between the inner and outer tubes. Put them in the sides FACING the gate, thereby leaving the sides inline with the gate uncompromised. I would drill 1/2" holes so the epoxy flows well. Start by pouring about 1/3 gallon of epoxy in the post, then insert the liner, and fill the rest of the way.
Good luck!

 

[Walkers]

Jaysus! I wish I lived near you, I’d have replaced the damn post for you in less time than you have spent typing. You put in too small of a post. End of story. Pull it out and put in the right size post.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Bottoms up here.
So rip it all out, and scrap it all, then hand mix a yard and a half for each of the 5 posts?
I wish you did live closer, you could help!

@Old Fart
why yes it is, and worse than the price, is the difficulty finding any!
I considered going square, but read the round was better, it filled the existing post more, and due to the nature of a swing gate, I felt it would more likely be the wiser approach?
The planted post only has an ID of 2⅞", and my normal supplier didn't have anything with a stout enough wall in stock to sample.
And I don't understand the formulas to calculate the amount of stress required to buckle square tube? Plus I'd just always heard round is stronger than square?

I'm not fully ready to commence the process just yet, and always open to suggestions.

Same goes with you
@Max78
Yes, the tight fit is primarily due to a huge seam weld on the galvanized fence post. Apparently that **** is nothing like that in traditional steel products, not in tooling, tolerances, or compositions. I had no idea.
I did consider a similar rebar idea, but wasn't sure how well it would work, and was less certain how well a bundle of it would hold together with safety wire, getting scuffed and scraped down the 10' fall?
Had I the luxury of meeting with the epoxy dealer first, I may very well have gone that route, so as just to require much less epoxy?
And I still may get some to reduce the fill required inside the 2.5", as rebar is by far cheaper than most any other option.
As far as the viscosity, I'm not 100% sure?
For the typical application, think of an adhesive between the cement floor and machine or motor mounts. This stuff is used to bite into both the concrete and steel, and not only be the binder, but provide other qualities that are or no use to me, a vibration dampener, and something about resonance?
Also, he told me that since I'm using it for other purposes, that I'd be better off shortening one bag of the "aggregate" which seems to be along the lines of silica and other fine grains. So having a soupier thinner mix, I'm hoping it's liquid enough to make its way everywhere I'm needing it to?

 

[Suburbancharlie]

He tells me that I should have enough product to fill 2 of the 10' posts completely with the epoxy.
The math I found is 3" x 10' = 3.67 gallons
X 2 posts = 7.34 gallons.

Without any rebar taking up space in the added steel tube, the math says 2.25" x 10' = 2.065 gallons.

That would allow me 3.6 posts.
So by using some rebar to fill in 2 more posts, I'm hoping to be able to stretch the epoxy that 0.4 posts, and fill 4 of them.

1 post is the primary concern
1 other is a close 2nd, as it too has zero counter bracing
2 more posts have a 2nd post in line to serve as a strongback/Deadman and somewhat brace the gate post.
The 5th is a post that has far less intended usage, the narrowest gate, and the ability to swap hinge posts, to one that again has a 3 rail fence section that is braced, and should provide some flex resistance.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Fill it with concrete.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

For smaller confines, that's not a considerable gain.
Yes, on 8"+ diameter it provides more significant profits in stress qualities, but it doesn't proportionately scale down to the smaller diameters, like my 2⅞ ID.
I've found statistics that it's only a 3-7% gain, which isn't even worth the minimal cost

 

[Old Fart]

Square tubing of any given dimension and wall thickness is stronger in a bending moment than a comparable round tube. The strength lies in the length of the sides vs. virtually no 'sides' in round. It's a common misconception that round is stronger... I think based on the practice of using round in COLUMNS. For use as a column, it's cheaper than square because there is less steel involved. Bending...use square.
Having said that, you could stiffen your post considerably by using a 2" schedule 40 black pipe (the cheapest form of pipe) as a liner and fill the liner as well as the gap between the ID of the post and OD of the liner, with the epoxy, or similar machinery grout. Those products have great compressive strength, and when you have it filling all voids, any bending moment will put it in compression.
2" pipe has an OD of 2 3/8". Schedule 40 has an ID of 2.067" (area of 3.354 sq "). 2" schedule 80 pipe has an ID of 1.939" (area of 2.951 sq ").
I'm not following your volume calculations, but I am calculating 2.8 gallons to fill the void between your current 2 7/8 ID and the OD of a 2" pipe liner as well as the ID of the liner. 2.6 gallons if you go with schedule 80.
Do some $$ comparison of 1 1/2" square tubing (I think that will fit) and the two different pipe thicknesses and go from there. Forget any round TUBING...tubing is closer tolerance and better finish than pipe, and you PAY for it!
Bundling cables is a very good way to improve bending strength, but it would take several strands bundled to help much, so you'd probably wing up using ~60 feet per post, so that would get expensive in a hurry.
YMMV.
Good luck!

 

[billconner]

I have to defend my pipe in the fence post as being stronger than a square tube. I think a 2" pipe - around 2.375" ID - will be much stronger than available 1 3/4" square steel tube, the maximum that will fit inside. For sure, a square tube is stronger than round it the depths - outside diameter for round - and wall thickness are the same, just not the case if fitting inside your fencepost.

(previous post said 2 7/8 I'd but I thought fence post was 2.47 i.d.?

Personally, I wouldn't mess with the filler, whatever it is, partly the mess and partly making it hard to undo. If you want a tighter fit than a 1/10 or so of an inch, not counting seam in fence post, run a couple of beads of weld. Or a ring at top and bottom and a couple in the middle.

I have not go found the modulus of elasticity for you fence post but am fairly certain based on wall thickness and material it's been less in or much less than the 2" pipe and be proportionately weaker in resisting deflection. Sorry I can't quantify that yet.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Old Fart, I'm not saying you're wrong, but there's a difference between pipe and tubing, that's where the dimensions difference may come from?
And to be honest, I have no clue why I hadn't considered even looking at black pipe, because yes, even the ½" rebar would really add up quickly. For one 2⅞", to truly pack it full, I came up with 23 pieces. All total I was working on figuring it out last night, and for 2 posts with the round tube liner, I'm thinking I'd need somewhere around 10 #4 each, and the 2 empty 3" galvanized @ 23 each, I'm at 450 pound of material, which I was pleasantly surprised to find is at least less than a dollar a pound if bought at 20' and cut down. I just don't know what my local big box store is going to think about me cutting it down in their yard, so I can load it in the truck.
But I'm definitely going to look at pipe now!
Thanks for the tip!!

And Bill,
Damn, so you are saying to stay away from the epoxy?
I know that's an equivalent to sealing my fate with cement, and an irreversible action, but I understand it to be less likely to form air pockets, and on paper stronger. Plus the fact the aggregate is a fine, unlike cements course gravel.
And as far as any "FOR SURE" numbers, I simply can't get any straight answers from the manufacturer. This chart is from their site, but doesn't correlate to my measurements?

As a layman, what I measured on my round post is
2⅞" OD. 2⅝" ID. 0.140 wall thickness, which more resembles MT20, but MTM refuses to tell me which I have?

The spec sheets seem to provide the following for MT20

https://midwesttubemills.com/en/products/round/mt20-high-strength


Weight per foot. 3.25 kg/m


Section modulus. 0.6364 Inches³


Yeild strength 25,ooo PSI 345MPA


Bending strength. 252 lbs


Bending moment 6' cantilever load. 18,160 lbs in

And the next step up is MT30, and that's this chart

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Holy cow, yes, pipe is considerably less $
Haven't even checked around, only looked at Home Depot @ 10' length

Black pipe. Galvanized
$39.96. 2" $56.96
39.96. 1½ 49.96
24.96. 1¼ 36.96
20.96. 1. 26.63
15.96. ¾ 23.47
13.16. ½ 17.96

I only bothered to note the smaller diameter because as cheap as it is, I see no point in not adding a size down on the inside.
Yes, I'm aware ½ doesn't nest in ¾, but I'm thinking it might go 2", 1¼,¾ if my memory serves me?

 

[billconner]

I assume you hung the gate and it sagged. What I may have missed is when you removed the gate (yes?) if the gate post stayed bent or if it returned to upright, unbent position. In my view, if it stayed bent, it failed in bending. If it returned to straight, it only failed in deflection, by deflecting too much for function.

Yes, pipe costs less than a round steel tube, and fence post costs even less. I'd look for schedule 120 at plumbing supply. Also, pipe seems like one of those things more common at a scrap yard - old buildings with steam heat torn diwn

My leaning against the epoxy or cement is so it's reversable, so if first test doesn't work, you can start over. I don't know if cement and rebar will stiffen it enough but sure seems if it doesn't, your in the tear out and start over mode. Maybe it's worth a try.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

So the fence post wasn't allowed to buckle to the point of damage.
I noticed an extreme amount of deflection and removed all but one gate I've been experimenting with.
I've spent too much time seeking a solution to get my support wheel on, but hope to get it on this week?
The gates are all removed to avoid usage and the one is not in the way, and supported from underneath.
The 2 portions of tube would fit, but require some convincing to make the entire trip, so for lack of ability to remove, I've not yet sent them all the way in yet.
I had a 2" black pipe on hand, as an addition to the BFH persuasion pile, basically a cheater bar extension, and that obviously fit with ease. The coupling however is just too large and I don't think even ground down is going to be an option to act as a shim of sorts, but I'll get another one and a longer piece of 2" and play with that, grinding and fitting all the way down.
My 2" PVC did show the fence posts to still be hollow all the way down, as I set them, then filled the hole with cement, not setting posts into cement, as I had intended to use cement in them for added strength, not knowing they were undersized.
I'll check with my plumbing house tomorrow on the heavier schedules, otherwise was thinking of 115" of 2",110" of 1¼, and 105" of ¾ nested, maybe #4 rebar in a very middle.
If I can get a cap for the 2" ground down to fit inside the 2⅞" fence post, maybe I'm wrong, but my pipe assembly should be strong, and be heavy but removable. Maybe mix some grout to fill voids, and give it a shot?
The staggered heights should in theory allow one pour to slowly step into the next diameter pipe? Hopefully.

Exactly. Tear out territory is something I'm absolutely concerned with. Reversible actions are all I'm looking for until proof of concept is provided.
And the 2" tube fit is a little too risky to remove and I'd prefer to push it into the epoxy than try to fill around it.
I just don't know if a few staggered holes will compromise the steel tube too much, holes to allow epoxy to flow better into crevices

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Using the different pipe sizes to "take up space" as well as providing some kind of strength.
I just don't know how to properly test it?
I can't exactly park a truck tire on it placed off the ground on some 4x4 lumber as the ground and drive another vehicle or tractor on the other side to serve as the gate weight.
That's what came to mind at least

 

[Suburbancharlie]

This product says flowable so I'll get some.
It is cheap enough to try in some pipe.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

This sure makes the product appear to be quite fluid in a video by Sakrete

 

[Walkers]

Bottoms up here.
So rip it all out, and scrap it all, then hand mix a yard and a half for each of the 5 posts?
I wish you did live closer, you could help!

@Old Fart
why yes it is, and worse than the price, is the difficulty finding any!
I considered going square, but read the round was better, it filled the existing post more, and due to the nature of a swing gate, I felt it would more likely be the wiser approach?
The planted post only has an ID of 2⅞", and my normal supplier didn't have anything with a stout enough wall in stock to sample.
And I don't understand the formulas to calculate the amount of stress required to buckle square tube? Plus I'd just always heard round is stronger than square?

I'm not fully ready to commence the process just yet, and always open to suggestions.

Same goes with you
@Max78
Yes, the tight fit is primarily due to a huge seam weld on the galvanized fence post. Apparently that **** is nothing like that in traditional steel products, not in tooling, tolerances, or compositions. I had no idea.
I did consider a similar rebar idea, but wasn't sure how well it would work, and was less certain how well a bundle of it would hold together with safety wire, getting scuffed and scraped down the 10' fall?
Had I the luxury of meeting with the epoxy dealer first, I may very well have gone that route, so as just to require much less epoxy?
And I still may get some to reduce the fill required inside the 2.5", as rebar is by far cheaper than most any other option.
As far as the viscosity, I'm not 100% sure?
For the typical application, think of an adhesive between the cement floor and machine or motor mounts. This stuff is used to bite into both the concrete and steel, and not only be the binder, but provide other qualities that are or no use to me, a vibration dampener, and something about resonance?
Also, he told me that since I'm using it for other purposes, that I'd be better off shortening one bag of the "aggregate" which seems to be along the lines of silica and other fine grains. So having a soupier thinner mix, I'm hoping it's liquid enough to make its way everywhere I'm needing it to?

Why is everything so extreme with you? In post 1 you said you had 1 gate installed, so why are you now say 5?
Remove the gate from the post. Weld a stub onto the post. Jack the post out of the concrete. If that fails just cut the post off and core a hole next to it to set a new post. Or core it around the existing and knock the concrete out.
Or insert the first bad post and upsize the other 4 before you install.

As far as what to use to insert, go to a steel yard, not HoDe, and find something that fits well. Insert and plug weld it to the far side top middle and bottom. Its not brain surgery, its not even engineering, its a gate.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Cuz there has got to be a way, beyond rip it out!

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Comparing #4 rebar to black and galvanized pipe, having had a chance to compare notes, to "fill" the posts, there isn't as significant of a cost difference as I had thought.
It would probably be easier to go with pipe, but there's only a few dollars difference, unless I went with a metals supplier, then the pipe is quite more.
I've still got to check on the sch 80

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Well schedule 120 isn't readily available but thankfully the 80 is even cheaper than Depot, so that experiment will be happening soon

 

[j p smith]

Wow, man you are going through a lot of aggravation, that can't be fun. I am just wondering but have you thought about cutting off the post at grade, then have a company Core Drill over the remaining post in the concrete to the correct size hole in order to accommodate of a larger diameter, thicker wall post, then epoxy in place. Good luck in getting this resolved which ever way you go

 

[billconner]

The one sure way to compare us to destructively test, but short of a 6th hole and concrete with a 2" pipe and another fence post, not sure how to do it. I wonder if the 2" doesn't just feel a lot stronger than the fence post.

I don't think filling with smaller pipe makes sense but I would imagine filling the 2" with concrete or grout might make it stiffer. Prefilling it - and casting in an eye - cant hurt. Us a 1/4 or 1/5 of a cubic foot. Will be a heavy s.o.b. to lift and insert.

I can't tell if the less than 1/4" annular gap between 2" and the fence in post inner walls is significant. I checked 2 1/2" EMT but too big of, even if wall thickness was good. Maybe try the naked 2" pipe and if the gap matters, weld beads on it.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Yes, similar has been recommended, but I'm not to that point yet.
It doesn't sound as cheap as what I'm in for, plus then it's not only the new 4"+ posts, but the service.
And I can't help but imagine that is done with something like a well drilling rig, which just isn't going to fit into the spaces of a majority of the posts. Yes, it would work for the 2 primary issues.
Honestly at that point, I'd probably just end up with the yard and a half of concrete for most of the posts, yes a tremendous amount of labor, but by far cheaper than a 4' deep core drill?
But I have no clue or comparisons for that service, just something that sounds like it would be a thousand dollars.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

@billconner
I tried finding a spec sheet for gal and black pipe last night, still can't find spit on the F1043 without buying a $50 of who knows what, but yes, the ID/OD's are far more cooperative than I thought.
I just wasn't sure if a stiffener for my stiffener would help any, but the schedule 80 should make a remarkable improvement alone.

So I'm thinking of setting up a jig to fill it upright, and I definitely like that eyebolt idea, I can add that to a cap. I'll have a go at grinding some caps and couplings, I was thinking about maybe 2 fittings below grade and 3 above to make up the diameter gap?
Really it just seems to be the outer lip that is my point of contention. It seems like it would reduce down fairly well. The ID of the fence post is darn near equivalent to a pop can, so that gives me a decent guage.
Just makes me wish I had access to a lathe, that would be much prettier than the 4" grinder jaggedness that will be present.

The other thing causing me to lose sleep last night was the idea of possibly losing my epoxy into the gravel drainage base? I'll head on up and do a pressure blow leak test on the posts.
It'll be awkward and funny looking as all hell, but I'm just wanting to make sure if I were to go ahead and pour epoxy in the post first, I don't want to force it in the ground, I'll want it to force its way around the 2".
I'm thinking dropping the 2" into epoxy should probably provide a better fill than to assume it's going to seep down via gravity. The epoxy is nowhere near as liquid as the Sakrete Precision Grout.
That was another thing I was trying to calculate. Provided there's no force to the gravel, I'm thinking of starting with ¾ a gallon of epoxy down in the post, and plunging it in.
Doing a similar thing with the steel tube, but having to fight with a filler pipe to take up space for less epoxy used. I'm thinking 1½" with just a bottom cap, filled with the grout. I'll end up cutting everything a bit shorter than the 120", so no matter what, hitting a fitting or a chunk of something doesn't prevent a proud stance.

If I can stretch the epoxy out to 4 posts, I'll be a happy camper!

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Should have known that was too good to be true.
The new guy thought I was talking about PVC.
On the quest to find sch 80 black or gal

 

[billconner]

plumbing supply

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Well doing the multiple couplings is definitely out of the question.
I don't remember the last time I hogged off this much material.
0.45 doesn't sound like much till it's cylindrical.
But at least there's enough meat that I haven't penetrated yet, and not showing signs of threads.
Thank goodness this will be buried, cuz it's ugly as sin.
And the idea of the eye bolt in a cap has changed as well. That's just going right in the grout with a nut and washer.

 

[billconner]

That's what I meant. Just a piece of rebar bent in a tight "U" would work. And stop grout short of top so eye is recessed below end of pipe to allow driving.

I wondered if a couple of tin cans split and wrapped around pipe - too, middle, bottom - would shim it but probably not stay in place.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Oh, recessed, that's a clever idea.
Gosh I love this group!
I've got a very this scrap of aluminum tube that may probably work?
I grabbed it to check fitment, since I didn't have a test piece of the 3" galvanized.
I'll see how the vacant sch 80 goes in, primarily comes out, and see about how many cans of pop I'll need as shims

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Well I guess I can argue if someone says I've got a big head.
Well at least my mouth. I can't get a decent enough seal to tell if there's a gravel area leak at the bottom of any of them.
But the good news is 2 caps are under 2.5"and no holes.
Hopefully get the call about the sch 80 tomorrow, which ends up being more than #4 rebar, $390 for 20', but hope to get to making grout tomorrow.
Still need to pick up something as volume consumption for the 2 steel tubes, will have to measure the size of 1" caps, and get some conduit or something to require less epoxy in the 2.5" steel tube.

 

[KenC]

I'd bet that a 1" or 3/4" rebar in the center of the post, filled solidly with any of several high strength polymer/sand/cement products normally used for resurfacing would yield a really stiff post. Maybe a custom mix using sand topping mix without water, just a concrete bonding product. That makes a very strong mix that bond to steel really well. Fill first and then insert the rebar. Just don't overfill and waste mix when the steel is inserted.

 

[billconner]

I was thinking about the caps or shims and wondered if just fine, dry sand wouldn't fill the as annular space between pipe and post just fine. It would make removing pipe harder. To undo, shop vac sand out
(after removing pipe).

 

[Suburbancharlie]

I'm not quite sure, but did get the schedule 80 filled with the precision grout.
Sadly my helper, an 8yo epically failed while holding the funnel and the 50lb that made approximately 4 gallons only filled up the 2 schedule 80 pipes (~1¾ gallon) and I'm having to get another bag and mix another batch for the very bottom of the galvanized and the 2 small 1½" pipes that are serving as fill inside the steel tube.
It will be difficult to place them in the fence post, but I'm certainly hoping that extra weight will aid shoving them into the epoxy.

I'm planning to use a few cups of the grout to ensure the epoxy doesn't seep away into the gravel at the bottom of the galvanized like a plug or cap,, as the stiffener materials are plunged into the epoxy.

All the pipes have been cut down a few inches to be sure they will fit trouble free. 115" in a 120" galvanized.

 

[billconner]

Need a back hoe or similar.

 

[Suburbancharlie]

I originally considered sand, as you said, could hopefully be shopvac'd out.
But unfortunately due to the horrendous weld seam down the entire length of the fence post, nothing near the size of the ID goes in, and even worse, comes out well.
So a true and accurate "test" is out of the question. For fear of destabilizing anything?

As far as a backhoe, boy do I wish!
Sand is cheap enough and so multipurpose that I was hoping for a trial that way, but the tolerances are so close that I'm now having the thoughts that I'd never convince sand all the way down into all the nooks and crannies.

That's why I believe this epoxy to be a better solution (pardon the pun), plus I think it would serve as corrosion protection as in my mind should fully encapsulate the steel, preventing any moisture as well as becoming a bonding agent to truly lock all the pieces together.
Although had I discovered the Sakrete Precision Grout prior to the purchase of the epoxy, I definitely would have gone that route first on a trial post. I've got 7 of these posts in the ground, only 5 of which have the load of a gate.
One serves as a back gate latch post, the other is a fence panel corner post.
I was afraid of using square, as it would require not only plumb, but also perfectly clocked in the hole. Round is by far more forgiving.

I could get a bobcat, but that's nowhere near tall enough.
A 12' fiberglass A frame ladder is the closest to the sky as I can currently get.
It will be very useful with getting the pipes started into the posts!

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Alright, fillers in and about ready to Crack open the epoxy.
I'll fill ya in on what I've accomplished later, just came to ask for all the fingers crossed, hopes, wishes and prayers I could muster.....
But this Chockfast Red seems quite impressive

 

[Suburbancharlie]

Well we all know "life" happens, and I apologize for not getting back here. You've all got time invested and deserve to be updated.
So the precision grout is in one post, I'd gotten 2 more cans of epoxy that had been "compromised" or beyond the guaranteeable date.
I had 2 plastic Mason Troughs on hand, not knowing which would work best for cleaning out the Harbor Freight Orange Cement Mixer, (orange being the larger model).
That thing does a pretty darn good job. I forget what the cubic foot is stated at, but it was definitely up to the task for all my pours, on several occasions I had gotten 5 of the 60 pound bags in there, running off a 10AWG 100' extension cord plugged into different dedicated circuits. Somewhere around half of the nearly 18,ooo lbs of sakrete I noticed a significant weakening and distinct groaning that was caused by the belt needing adjustment, otherwise I can't say enough about that machine. The chute I'd made, a 2x12 about 3' long, added some stiff metal straps 1½" by 3/16" at what I'll call the top of the chute, that were bent in a crescent shape, to serve as hooks to grab the mixers cross bar, and then to support the 10" sonotube that I'd cut in half I screwed some 2x4 to help align the sacrificial cardboard sonotube. To get more pours daily out of the sonotube, I used a 55 gallon contractor bag, much like a condom for the cardboard and a light wipe of diesel to get the most from this contraption. This made clean up a breeze, although positioning the loaded mixer and chute was quite difficult, it all worked well together. The larger of the two mixing trough is what was used for cleanup and the smaller one was something I'd considered returning until this epoxy entered my life.

Well I've used epoxies before, but most often only 4-5 Oz at a time. Three gallon was uncharted territory for me. It was recommended to me to proceed cautiously with the smashed can, and I did find a considerable sized previously hardened chunk due to the damage. This Chockfast has a removable liner in the tub to keep the product separated, but the freebie had a hairline Crack in that liner. It was also suggested to not play chemist and to dump all the product together and thoroughly mix, instead of trying to predetermined batch sizes. So I removed the chunks after breaking the tough skin that developed below the plastic and mixed in the metal bucket that the product comes in. Cordless drill and 5 gallon paint mixer, for 4 minutes.
I already had transmission fluid funnels cut to size, and for my main priority posts with the steel tubing stiffener liners in place, I used straight epoxy. I have 7 posts of the 3", 1 is a corner post (filled with the precision grout) and the rest are for gates. The 5 posts a gate hangs from have some variation of 2" steel tube and or post within. I had just enough to get 5 posts filled with straight epoxy and needed to open a bag of aggregate to extend the product to fill an empty 6th. The aggregate is a mixed bag of silica sand, fine stone, powder, and dry red dye. It is considered low dust, and was rather unique. It mixed in well but the "drier" version of this pourable solution definitely didn't like going down the transmission funnel!
This empty final post, I started to fill with straight epoxy and realized I wouldn't have enough prior to adding the aggregate. By the time I returned to pour in the product much more as it's designed, holy **** the epoxy in the bottom began to its chemical reaction thing and I had one of those moments where you know "something's going on" but don't know what!?! The post had heated up so much I ended up with a blister, I hadn't imagined that it would heat up so much, I wish I'd have thought of having a thermometer with me. It seriously had to be near 200F! The top half of the final post is filled with what is probably near the traditional blend of the product.
So I'd given everything a good week to fully cure, as my temperature had been beginning to shift into winter mode, lows near 40 at night. One of my posts had a self close hinge that utilizes through bolts, and I knew I was in for an interesting time drilling various layers of metal, epoxy, metal, precision grout, metal, epoxy, and metal again. The epoxy didn't end up destroying the bit as I expected, but the precision grout definitely didn't drill well with a traditional bit, so the SDS came in very handy for getting through it and enlarging from the pilot hole size. The old Chicago Electric Hammer Drill and some Bosch bits made quick work on stepping up to the ⅝" holes.
All in all, it's impossible to say what made the biggest difference. The "Precision Grout" post is a corner post, so having the rigidity of the 2 different planes is probably giving a false sense of strength.
3 gate posts are line ends, with the gate weight hung perpendicular to the additional fence panel support, and 2 gate posts have what has been worded as a strongback in line with the gate weight. Some have tube, some have pipe. It's really a hodge podge crapshoot of materials.
Admittedly I'm still not totally satisfied with the noticeable amount of flex that is presented with opening the gates, but my conglomeration of materials at least has me sleeping better, thinking my posts shouldn't tear apart as the wind blows.
Not knowing for sure if I'd have the funds for gates when I'd began, I had augered in a hole for a post in the early stages in the event that I used fence panels instead of double drive gates.
As I placed the gate frames, prior to skinning the pickets, I did end up placing an additional board, with ⅜" bolts to accept a "helper" wheel, but will hold off on that installation until spring. I want to see what naturally happens, and that would allow me to better level the lawn, so the wheel would have more consistent contact with the ground. This is only on the 3 larger gates.
I had some leftover scraps from the gate build, to sink 4' receptacles in the ground that accept a heavy duty drop rod. Since the hole was designed as a post hole, they were drilled at 8", so I believe I'm getting a significant amount of place holding from the drop rod, which in turn is helping to prevent the appearance of sag in the gate. The 2" galvanized schedule 40 receptacles were set in position and premixed sakrete poured around. The Garage side of the fence has 2 drop rods in the ground and the house side there's only one, as the shorter gate has the fancier self closing hinge that required the drilling.
But, it's the result of DIY, and shortages.
Take it from me, if you are "on the fence" about material, go the next size up!
Do your own research and don't expect people to actually be listening before selling you "what you need".
Thank you Garage Journal for your time, help, listening ear, and as always the guidance in gaining confidence and wisdom. You guys have always been a pleasant listening ear.
Hopefully everyone involved has a wonderful, healthy and happy Holiday Season.