Gedore 7R and 7UR - old and new version

[Marc_F]

Hello,

Since several years I am using the older type Gedore 7R ratcheting wrenches, which were still made in Taiwan (or other country? at least not in Germany). I have the 5 piece set and I have been very pleased with them so far, except that regularly I need a size which is not included in my small set (8, 10, 13, 17 and 19mm). Now I wanted to complete the set with all the missing sizes between 8 and 19mm and I found out that it‘s cheaper to by a complete new set 8-19mm and sell the old one. Now I saw that Gedore has changed to German manufacturing on these wrenches with a completely new design. Reading the reviews on Amazon.de, a lot of people seem to be unhappy about the quality of this new version. This goes from rough running gear mechanism to levers falling off on the 7UR wrenches.

Before I switch over to the new set, I would appreciate to hear some opinions of people owning either version of these, or ideally who have owned both. If the new ones are really not that great, I may search for an old set 8-19mm.

Also, do you see any major advantages of the 7UR version with lever for direction change over the 7R wrenches? I cannot remember a situation where a 7UR would have been of advantage. I mainly work on cars and usually use a normal wrench to crack the fastener loose and then switch over to the ratcheting wrench.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Marc

 

[Marc_F]

To add some clarity to this for those who don't know these wrenches:

Gedore 7R old version

Gedore 7R new version

Gedore 7UR old version

Gedor 7UR new version

 

[Mack3nzie]

Hi Marc,

I recently ordered the 7 UR-012 set. If you are still evaluating whether or not to buy some, I can provide some feedback once I receive them next week.

Regarding the manufacturing, while the wrenches are made in Germany I confirmed with Gedore directly that the ratcheting mechanisms are still made in Taiwan.

I think the major advantage of the UR's over the R's only comes into play if you are intending to use them in conjunction with the Gedore 7 RA adaptors (RA-6.3, RA-10 and RA-12.5) which convert the 10mm, 13mm and 19mm wrenches into 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 drive ratchets respectively. With the R's, you would need to remove the adaptors and swap them to the other side to reverse the ratcheting function, whereas with the UR's you can simply flip the lever. If you aren't intending to purchase these adaptors then the UR's probably don't provide that much more utility.

 

[mr.lemons]

Regarding the manufacturing, while the wrenches are made in Germany I confirmed with Gedore directly that the ratcheting mechanisms are still made in Taiwan.

Thanks for this.

I have wondered if it's the same with Hazet and Stahlwille's ratchet wrenches.

 

[wout]

Hazet ratchets are made and assembled in their factory in Remscheid Germany that's for sure but the ratchet wrenches I don't know.

Wout

 

[Mack3nzie]

My understanding is that the ratcheting mechanism for both the Hazet 606 and Stahlwille 17 are manufactured in Taiwan. KC Tool lists the COO for both as Taiwan, and on Jens' website in the description for the 606 there is an explanation that a Taiwanese company holds the patents for ratcheting combination wrenches and that accordingly they are principally manufactured there.

I am uncertain on whether the the wrenches themselves are manufactured in Taiwan or if it is only the ratcheting mechanisms that are sourced there. Jens could probably shed some more light on this and provide a definitive answer.

 

[geo9]

I do not own them but I had the chance to handle several examples of the 7R model (old and new) in a couple hardware shops, and I got the impression that the ratchet action in the new ("German") version is more rough. There is more resistance to the ratcheting action. They feel as they are completely dry inside and in need of a few drops of some sort of lubricant.
Plus the head seems to be a little larger in the new version (pearl size) vs the older. (round size) wrenches.
Personally I would buy the Taiwanese, especially if the price is lower.
Just my 0.02 (euros) !

 

[Marc_F]

Thank you all for your feedback.

In the meantime, I got a great deal on a new 15 piece set of Facom 467B (newest model with retaining ring in the ratcheting ring as well as a retaining notch in the open end), on Ebay (110€ including shipping) so I couldn’t resist and decided to go for that one.

Compared to my previous Taiwan made Gedore 7R (besides the fact that the new Facom are reversible ones) the design looks very similar, which is why I could imagine that they come out of the same factory. I used a few wrenches of the new set last weekend while servicing a car and I am pretty happy with their performance so far.

Nevertheless, I would be very interested to hear some feedback on the Gedore 7UR as well.

 

[geo9]

That is a very good price for the 467B set. Enjoy in good health. I didn't like the feel of the lever on a couple of new 7UR I have tried, plus the ratcheting action seemed to be similar to that on the 7R.

 

[Outahere]

My understanding is that the ratcheting mechanism for both the Hazet 606 and Stahlwille 17 are manufactured in Taiwan. KC Tool lists the COO for both as Taiwan, and on Jens' website in the description for the 606 there is an explanation that a Taiwanese company holds the patents for ratcheting combination wrenches and that accordingly they are principally manufactured there.

I am uncertain on whether the the wrenches themselves are manufactured in Taiwan or if it is only the ratcheting mechanisms that are sourced there.

It would be nice if Hazet and Stahlwille would be more forthcoming with information, and simply state on their website something such as: "wrench manufactured with components from Germany and Taiwan".

 

[HannibalLecter]

Although I don't own the 7UR , I considered them for the fact that they are German made. Now I learn this isn't true. I can give some insight and my opinion as to why I went with Facom 467B . All ratcheting wrenches except for Snap on and Gedore (which as I learned isn't true) are made in taiwan.I know taiwan makes fine tools but I try to buy elsewhere. Even when I thought the 7UR where made in Germany I went for the facom for these reasons;
unique shape, beautiful and ergonomic.
Nut retaining ring
Better local lifetime warranty
Facom is of impeccable quality with no imperfections in the chrome
Gedore is more agricultural, with blemishes, rough finish, sometimes misaligned broaching, imperfections in casting. No thanks
Lastly, look at the box end of the Gedore. The ring is too big same is true for the Snap ons. Facom rings are narrower.
As to why reversible over simple ratcheting; the reversible ones are 15 degrees bent, which allows for better clearance. This wouldn't work with simple ratcheting ones.
The second reason is that sometimes there is the case that you have the wrench in the fastener, you ratchet, the wrench gets obscured by something, you cant back it up. Rare, but nightmare
I would go for the facom personally

 

[Samuel D]

I have some Gedore No. 7R spanners (the straight, non-reversible ones that say “MADE IN GERMANY” on the concave face of the beam).



I agree with some of the criticism above (not the lightest back-drag, a little bulky, rough finish compared to Facom) and especially of the German tool companies being coy with the truth about where their products are made (although Facom might be worse, with no COO to be found in many cases).

It surprises me that EU law tolerates this vagueness about COO.

But about the spanners. Below are my measured head widths (to the nearest 0.05 mm) for the current purportedly German-made 7R in the sizes I have:

8 mm head width: 18.20 mm
10 mm head width: 21.55 mm
12 mm head width: 24.10 mm
13 mm head width: 26.20 mm
14 mm head width: 28.15 mm
17 mm head width: 33.25 mm
19 mm head width: 36.10 mm

I would be curious how any of these compare to measured (not claimed) Facom and Snap-on head widths, if anyone feels like playing.

 

[HannibalLecter]

I have some Gedore No. 7R spanners (the straight, non-reversible ones that say “MADE IN GERMANY” on the concave face of the beam).



I agree with some of the criticism above (not the lightest back-drag, a little bulky, rough finish compared to Facom) and especially of the German tool companies being coy with the truth about where their products are made (although Facom might be worse, with no COO to be found in many cases).

It surprises me that EU law tolerates this vagueness about COO.

But about the spanners. Below are my measured head widths (to the nearest 0.05 mm) for the current purportedly German-made 7R in the sizes I have:

8 mm head width: 18.20 mm
10 mm head width: 21.55 mm
12 mm head width: 24.10 mm
13 mm head width: 26.20 mm
14 mm head width: 28.15 mm
17 mm head width: 33.25 mm
19 mm head width: 36.10 mm

I would be curious how any of these compare to measured (not claimed) Facom and Snap-on head widths, if anyone feels like playing.

I'll get back to you with the facom dimensions, but i don't have calipers

 

[Samuel D]

I'll get back to you with the facom dimensions, but i don't have calipers

Thanks. Though you might need callipers to get a decent reading of this (I used a basic Mitutoyo vernier calliper, nothing expensive).

Meanwhile, I opened up my 19 mm spanner to see what’s inside:



The cover screws take a Torx size T8 bit or key (same as the 17 mm; you need a T6 for the 12, 13, and 14 mm; and you need a tiny T5 for the 8 and 10 mm).

A few observations:

• the screws have a blue thread-locking compound
• the pawl has four-teeth engagement (in this particular size anyway).
• whatever it feels like, there is indeed a decent amount of oil in there (in a new spanner), plus grease of some sort under the pawl (you can probably see oil sitting around the perimeter of the cover plate in the photo above)
• the inside of the head has the same surface treatment (matt-looking chrome) as the outside. Hmm. Moreover, the teeth themselves look neat on a large scale but have substantial machining marks when you look at them closely. These things may account for the rough feeling (slightly irregular-feeling back-drag).
• it is trivial to fully disassemble, clean, lubricate, and reassemble this mechanism with your bare fingers. There is the one-piece gear ring, the one-piece pawl, a gentle spring that doesn’t send anything flying, and a ball. That’s it.
• … and you’re gonna need to perform that rigmarole from time to time, because there are no seals at all.

Looking at these simple internals, you have to wonder why Taiwan has a lock on the production of these spanners. You’d think a bunch of European and American manufacturers could do these, and probably with a better tooth finish than Gedore (perhaps at a higher price).

Anyone know what the Taiwanese ones look like inside? They look harder to get into. What exactly is patented?

 

[HannibalLecter]

Well, I have some rough measurements, I tried to accommodate for the thickest section in the middle by moving the scale a bit to the right. But even with these eyeballed measurements the difference between the facom and the Gedore I'd say is more than enough to swing me to Facom

 

[HannibalLecter]

I need to get some calipers, but I want the Mitutoyo Digimatic 0-300 and I will bleed through the nose for these

 

[Outahere]

19 mm head width: 36.10 mm

I would be curious how any of these compare to measured (not claimed) Facom and Snap-on head widths, if anyone feels like playing.

Facom says the head width (diameter) on the 19mm 467B ultra grip ratcheting wrench is 33.9mm, versus 36.10mm for your Gedore.

more dimensions here:

Home - General tooling - Fixed And Variable Opening WrenchesRatchet WrenchesCombination Ratchet Series - - FACOM

www.facom.eu

 

[HannibalLecter]

It doesn't seem that the thickest part is that much thicker, but I could be mistaken. I'll see if I can find a caliper. Still more slim than Gedore though

 

[Outahere]

Are the FACOM and USAG ratcheting wrenches identical ?

 

[HannibalLecter]

Are the FACOM and USAG ratcheting wrenches identical ?

I believe so

 

[ozghiun]

hello, I also have a question if you could help me, where I could buy the old versions of the spanners? Gedore 7R, 7UR