Generac 20KW home generator install

[mjeff87]

I pulled the plug on a whole-house backup generator. Having lived thru two hurricanes, a couple monster snowstorms (well, monster-like for VA anyhow...), lots of ice storms, some tornadoes and a recent earthquake since we've moved here, it's always been my main priority to get one.

20Kw Generac, natural gas fed, and it comes with a brandy new NEMA 1 "advanced load center". I'm also installing a whole-house surge protector at the panel....in our last house we had the same tree in the backyard hit twice by lightning and it fried a bunch of stuff inside. It'll take about 6 weeks to deliver, then install will begin (not by me, I'm contracting this all out to a local electrical contractor).

Gas company is already scheduling to replace my meter with a larger one to feed the beast, but the good thing is the service line to the meter from the main is adequately sized, and doesn't need to be replaced (and my yard doesn't have to get dug up).

I'll be taking pics and updating this thread over the next couple months, but don't expect anything to really start happening until about mid-March. We're going on our annual vacation at the end of Feb (and taking her parents along ), so nothing 'till we get back from that, at least.

Yeah, it's a bit of overkill for just the two of us and the cats, but I'd rather have more juice than I need than the other way around.

If anyone has any specific questions along the way, post up and I'll try to answer them as best I can. It should be noted that I am the farthest thing from an electrician as you could ever be, but will try as best I can to help anyone out
Jeff

 

[mjeff87]

after a bit of confusion with the gas company, I got the meter swapped out for a commercial one. Initially, they sent a guy out (thank gawd I was home when he showed up) who started to measure my gas line from the meter to the main because he thought I was getting a new line. I set him straight on that and told him the line was fine, all I needed was a new meter base. Monday another guy showed up and swapped the meter out with no problems in about 20 minutes (and re-piped the original mess they did three years ago when they put the first meter in ), but when I got home from work last night I noticed that Miss Utility had paid me a visit and paint marked/flagged my gas line back to the main across the street. I called them back today to make sure they weren't gonna dig my yard up <<crosses fingers>> and they said it was an oversight and no work was planned for my address.

old meter:

new meter, same length and height as the old, just wider:

It was raining when he swapped it, so he couldn't paint the new piping he installed, but he left me a brand new can of paint so I could do it when it dried up. Will paint it this weekend.

 

[mjeff87]

got the new load center installed, along with an analog hour meter. All of the wiring is now run from the new panel, across the top of my garage and under my crawl space over to where the generator pad is set. I'll tidy up the drywall where they had to cut out this weekend. Still need to have the whole-house surge protector installed on the panel, and when the generator shows up next month all they'll have to do is mount it on the pad and connect the wiring and gas supply.

new load center (with built in ATS):

PVC conduit:

 

[pattenp]

Are you're having the gen installed by Virginia Air Mechanical?

 

[mjeff87]

LOL.....no



Jeff

 

[cderalow]

out of curiousity, what's the install running you?

 

[mjeff87]

Including optioning a couple things (extended warranty, hour meter, surge protector), right around $9K.

I could have gone with a 17K unit, but for less than $800 I bumped it up to 20K. Completely automatic and will run everything (including HVAC) which is my biggest concern. Almost every time we have a weather event down here that drops power I am either held at work or called in if I'm home, leaving my wife by herself. This gives me a little more peace of mind, knowing she'll be o.k. while I'm not there

 

[cderalow]

I'd love to do it at our house more for the winter and famous Pepco power outages.

 

[Fury5]

Would love to see picture of the generator pad if/when you have time to post them. Hoping to do a similar install this spring. Thanks.

 

[mjeff87]

forgot that, thanks for reminding me Base is a PT form with crushed gravel, generator comes with a composite pad cover....here's the base:

also a shot of my crawl space with the wiring (so far)

 

[Teken]

How far is that base from the house? Also, is the ATS a 200 amp unit with the remote monitoring device? Lastly, did you spring for the winter package?

Teken . . .

 

[mjeff87]

base is to code, 5 feet from everything (had to orient it perpendicular to the house due to the exhaust). The panel is a 200A NEMA1. I didn't opt for the winterization package due to our location.

 

[2chipped]

A dumb Q from someone from the tropical /coastal Ga...say you have an earthquake and the main has a problem?
Is there a way to have a secondary tank after the meter?

 

[ishiboo]

A dumb Q from someone from the tropical /coastal Ga...say you have an earthquake and the main has a problem?
Is there a way to have a secondary tank after the meter?

Not really. LP and diesel would both be options. The advantage to LP is it keeps almost forever, disadvantage is in an emergency you could very well have an issue getting a truck out to fill it.

 

[cderalow]

I think general makes a dual fuel one that'll run lp and natural gas, so you could have. Tank for emergency and run off the main.

 

[Milton Shaw]

i checked with our natural gas supplier and asked them 'if they could supply NG during an outage like the northeast had in 2003. There answer was "no all our pumps and valves are electric and we do not have backup generators on them. I went with a 500 gallon propane tank only for that reason. Most of the generators are dual fuel but have to have somethings changed over to convert from one to the other. Don't get your hopes up that in a disaster that utility could supply you, because in 2003 they could not supply the northeast.

 

[mjeff87]

**knocks on wood**

So far, in all the events down here that caused power outages (two of them longer than a week each) we haven't lost NG service.....

 

[Teken]

Jeff,

What is the NG pipe diameter and the total length of pipe from the service entrance to the Generator?

Also, when you get the unit up and running. Would you mind following up with us and letting us know how the unit runs in term of (noise) dB out put. Along with the weekly maintenance run mode and how that affects your NG bill.

Lastly, would you mind indicating the exact model Generac NG unit you installed as I want to compare the total cost of ownership compared to what I have been quoted for the same unit here.

Teken . . .

 

[Stuart in MN]

Spec sheets for the Generac generators are here, they include gas consumption and sound level: http://www.generac.com/Residential/Guardian/Guardian_Series/ The 20kw unit is rated at 66dB(A) at 23 feet, which is pretty quiet.

 

[nehog]

... a brandy new NEMA 1 "advanced load center". ...

What is the model of that transfer switch/load center? I'd like to read the manual on it.

 

[Teken]

Spec sheets for the Generac generators are here, they include gas consumption and sound level: http://www.generac.com/Residential/Guardian/Guardian_Series/ The 20kw unit is rated at 66dB(A) at 23 feet, which is pretty quiet.

Stuart in MN,

Thank you Sir. 66 dB @ 23 feet? This equals to a normal conversation based Internet postings.

Teken . . .

 

[mjeff87]

Jeff,

What is the NG pipe diameter and the total length of pipe from the service entrance to the Generator?

Also, when you get the unit up and running. Would you mind following up with us and letting us know how the unit runs in term of (noise) dB out put. Along with the weekly maintenance run mode and how that affects your NG bill.

Lastly, would you mind indicating the exact model Generac NG unit you installed as I want to compare the total cost of ownership compared to what I have been quoted for the same unit here.

Teken . . .

The main line from the main to the meter is 1", I'll post the connector length and diameter when the genset is installed in a couple weeks. I'm planning on doing a sound recording both outside and from inside once everything is done, and will post. The generator is a 20kw model # 05887-0.

What is the model of that transfer switch/load center? I'd like to read the manual on it.

Transfer switch is a Generac #05447-0, the install paperwork that came with it is labeled Siemens. Data plate on the chassis door lists a model #0054992.

 

[BD1]

Hi, your gas company installers do not like to use fittings do they ?? The piping from meter to house is running down hill. All they needed to add was one elbow and one ******. It's little things like this that drive me bonkers.
Are you gonna have a natural gas grill out there ??? Size new generator piping for it and leave tee outside . Just a thought.

 

[Fury5]

Thanks for posting the pic of the base. I have been thinking through the options from a small poured concrete slab (which would of course eventually crack) to something like you have done. I was thinking of stone dust in a PT frame with a top layer of pavers, maybe Unilok. Seem like the pavers would be more for looks than function, though.

Cheers.

 

[mjeff87]

Hi, your gas company installers do not like to use fittings do they ?? The piping from meter to house is running down hill. All they needed to add was one elbow and one ******.

LOL....the guy did clean alot of piping up from the original, eliminated 2 unions. Gas grill is not near the area, unfortunately.

Thanks for posting the pic of the base. I have been thinking through the options from a small poured concrete slab (which would of course eventually crack) to something like you have done. I was thinking of stone dust in a PT frame with a top layer of pavers, maybe Unilok. Seem like the pavers would be more for looks than function, though.

Cheers.

The pad is going to be covered by a composite covering...will post pics when it's installed.

Cleaned up the drywall above the panel that they had to cut out....I hate drywall finishing, and am glad I don't have to do it for a living

 

[Teken]

Correct me if I am wrong. You have used this panel in instead of your original electrical panel. As this one removes the use of a secondary box (transfer switch) which is inside of this unit.

If this product was out a few years ago I would have gone this route. Very clean and removes one extra box required to be installed or placed on the wall.

Teken . . .

 

[mjeff87]

that is correct....they didn't offer it with the 17kw unit, but it was standard equipment with the 20kw unit I chose. Both "sides" of the panel are breakered at 125A, and it was a very clean install. The only other thing that is going to be added to the wire chase, above the hourmeter, is a whole-house surge protector.

 

[Teken]

is a whole-house surge protector.

Good on you for installing one. It is the one of the best things you can purchase that will pay off in spades during a weather event. Keep in mind point of use secondary surge protectors and UPS's also need to be deployed in key areas to ensure a extra margin of run time and safety.

If you can do me a favor once this thing is all up and running. Would you mind capturing the frequency that is being produced from this genset.

I would like to see how close to 60 hz this thing outputs.

Teken . . .

 

[ishiboo]

If you can do me a favor once this thing is all up and running. Would you mind capturing the frequency that is being produced from this genset.

I would like to see how close to 60 hz this thing outputs.

Teken . . .

Why? Output frequency is tied to engine RPM, and none of your devices care if it's 58hz or 61hz, except perhaps some ancient clocks which will not keep time

 

[mjeff87]

the generator has what the manufacturer is calling "TruePower" technology (patented). They claim less than 5% harmonic distortion...the 20kw is the largest genset they have that offers it.

 

[Teken]

Why? Output frequency is tied to engine RPM, and none of your devices care if it's 58hz or 61hz, except perhaps some ancient clocks which will not keep time

If I am going to invest in a expensive generator I want to make sure all the hype of true sine wave power output is in fact there.

the generator has what the manufacturer is calling "TruePower" technology (patented). They claim less than 5% harmonic distortion...the 20kw is the largest genset they have that offers it.

Please let us know what you measure when its up and running.

 

[tdkkart]

If I am going to invest in a expensive generator I want to make sure all the hype of true sine wave power output is in fact there.

The power can be as "true sine wave" as you can get, and it still doesn't have to be exactly 60hz. Getting as close as possible to 60hz is not only rpm dependent, but also depends on the exact linear spacing of the poles in the generator. If you have just one pole off a little bit you'll never get the true 60hz from a generator, at least not one that the average consumer can afford.
Even if the generator is built very well, the output will still vary every time a load is added or removed.

Want an exact sine wave frequency?? You'll probably have your best luck by producing it electronically, starting with DC.

 

[mjeff87]

I just need it to keep the beers cold in the fridge...I don't care how it does it LOL

(I'll measure and report, tho)

Jeff

 

[ishiboo]

If I am going to invest in a expensive generator I want to make sure all the hype of true sine wave power output is in fact there.



Please let us know what you measure when its up and running.

Herz has nothing to do with true sine wave vs modified/square/etc, nor does it really have to do with power quality. You can have a perfectly awesome 60hz at all times and still have crappy power, and you can have 55-65hz and have great power. It's what the sine wave itself looks like that matters, and the additional RF/etc. the alternator spits out on the lines.

True vs "not true" sine waves have more to do with inverters than generators, a generator is an alternator which rather naturally produces alternating current in a pure sine wave. Inverters have to "make up" the sine wave digitally.

All the "high tech" devices you worry about are more tolerant than anything to crappy waveforms but not electrical noise/etc... the sine wave is converted to a DC signal as soon as it enters the device anyway, so whatever the wave looks like doesn't matter as long as there's enough voltage for it to operate properly.

 

[mjeff87]

well, everything's in.....but with one small hiccup. The gas regulator on the new generator has a tiny leak in it, so it's deadlined until Generac ships a replacement and the contractor installs it (should be by tomorrow, hopefully). We did the break-in run and multiple transfers, everything works as it's supposed to.

Herewith, some pics of what all was involved. Some people claim this is a DIY project...to them I say no way. I've had no less than 6 different guys working on this install, for a total of about 40 hours (and they do this every day, and have the right tools, too).

From the last pic of my mediocre attempt at drywall repair, this is the inside of the new panel:

surge suppressor installed:

analog hour meter and run-indicator installed beside the panel:

pad set for generator (and they added a nice little 120V outlet for me there too):

 

[mjeff87]

trenching for conduit:

drilling thru foundation:

generator shows up (yay!):

generator set on pad:

from inside the crawl space:

 

[mjeff87]

It had to sit like that until the county came out and inspected it (it passed). The contractor installed a couple of pieces of conduit into the dirt down as sight tubes so the depth could be measured. A couple days later, the plumber came out and reopened the trench and ran the gasline, then covered it all back up:

I'm not exactly thrilled about how far off the unit the gas line comes out of the ground, but I'll find a way to camoflauge it somehow, and protect it so I don't whack it with the mower After that all happened, they came back and test-fired it (took awhile for the engine to catch as the plumber didn't bleed the gas line, but she finally started up and settled into a nice little hum, barely audible with the cover closed. I'll get a short video clip of it soon so you all can hear just how (not) loud it is.

Couple shots of the unit:

The county inspector came back out the next week for the final electrical inspection, and everything passed. That's also when the regulator leak was detected

While waiting for the replacement regulator, I had to re-landscape the yard....I'm a bit **** about my grass

Started with removing all the **** the contractors did and releveling the whole area, then added 240 lbs of topsoil:

fertilized and added 6 new rolls of sod:

threw another 100 or so lbs of topsoil on that:

can hardly tell anything was done from a distance LOL:

overseeded the area between the existing lawn and the new sod I laid, then tacked down landscape fabric and watered the whole mess in:

 

[Teken]

That is a beautiful play by play along with a great explanation of things that happen. I look forward to seeing the video of the unit.

All in what is the final bill for this unit?

Teken . . .

 

[mrb]

with regard to the frequency discussion, many UPSs will trip offline if the incoming frequency is off by a certain amount. I have come across some that are very sensitive.

 

[mjeff87]

altogether, it was about $9K, but that includes some extras. The surge protector and analog hour meter were add-ons to the basic package, and I paid an extra $500 for an extended warranty and an annual service agreement.

What really cheeses me off is that Generac just announced a special promotion...for any generator purchase made during the month of April they are including the cost of the extended warranty. I had the contractor call Generac to see if they would deduct what I paid for the extension and Generac is not willing to, or offer any other type of compensation. Mind you, my generator is still not fully installed and I haven't signed off on it yet. Still waiting on the replacement regulator that was ordered a week ago today.

Rest assured, I will get the full value of the warranty out of them now. Two can play the game. If even so much as a screwhead rusts on the unit, I will be filing a warranty claim.

Jeff