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Generac 25 kw liquid-cooled standby generator

underpressure02

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I have been looking for a standby generator for my house and was going to purchase a 20kw air cooled generac generator but recently found a "deal" on a 25kw liquid cooled unit. The seller is asking 3k for the unit and 200amp transfer switch. The unit is a 2009 and has 150 hours on it. To me it seems like a great deal based on what they sell for new but I do not know what the market is for used generators.

I am going to look at it tomorrow and really unsure what to look for since it is disconnected from the house so I can not ensure it works. The seller claims it works great and he just removed it to sell it. Does anyone have experience on what to look for? Is it a good price for the unit?

Any help would be great.

TIA
 
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Charles (in GA)

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Even disconnected, if it has a good battery, you should be able to crank it up. You certainly want to see the motor run. It may have built in outlets in it also, or a volt meter, so you can see the function of the generator.

Is the seller moving? Why is he selling? If it auto starts and runs for one hour, each week, since 2009, that just about accounts for the hours on it, even if it has never been used in an emergency.

Charles
 
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underpressure02

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Even disconnected, if it has a good battery, you should be able to crank it up. You certainly want to see the motor run. It may have built in outlets in it also, or a volt meter, so you can see the function of the generator.

Is the seller moving? Why is he selling? If it auto starts and runs for one hour, each week, since 2009, that just about accounts for the hours on it, even if it has never been used in an emergency.

Charles

Thank you for the info and suggestions I will check that for sure. It runs on propane so that is why I was unsure how to check it. Maybe I could hook up a little propane tank from my grill. If not atleast I can crank it over and ensure that the motor cranks.
 

Rookie2

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depends on how old the unit is and what manufacturer. Some companies are long gone and parts are not available. Look at the name tag for Make and actual KW , check the oil for any milky coloring , hoses for cracking .
 
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underpressure02

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depends on how old the unit is and what manufacturer. Some companies are long gone and parts are not available. Look at the name tag for Make and actual KW , check the oil for any milky coloring , hoses for cracking .

The unit is an 09 and made my Generac.
 

Rookie2

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Thats a good company. 25kw is a lot of generator and expect to use alot of fuel. Go to northerntool.com they have alot of packages to compare sizes and options. I think a 10KW is more that enough for most homes or emergencies.
 

manioso

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Parts shouldn't be a problem, but the engine is definitely not Generac. They do not make their own water cooled engines. Could be Mitsubishi or GM. Even only about half of their air cooled engines were their own. I have a 10kw air cooled which has a Subaru Robin. Suggest you get the model number of the complete generator and of the engine and Google both for manuals and parts lists for a better idea what you are getting into.

You should be able to run off of propane BBQ bottle, but will need to do some adaptation of the supply hose.
 

txst

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Parts shouldn't be a problem, but the engine is definitely not Generac. They do not make their own water cooled engines. Could be Mitsubishi or GM. Even only about half of their air cooled engines were their own. I have a 10kw air cooled which has a Subaru Robin. Suggest you get the model number of the complete generator and of the engine and Google both for manuals and parts lists for a better idea what you are getting into.

You should be able to run off of propane BBQ bottle, but will need to do some adaptation of the supply hose.

All Generac air-cooled home standby engines are made in their factory in Whitewater, WI, and have been for several years. Generac does also make some of their liquid-cooled, engines, but I don't think they make the one in the 25kW.

As has been mentioned, 25kW is a lot of generator for a typical home. Just the weekly excercise will cost you a lot in fuel, not to mention the cost of the installation - the wire must be rated for 104 amps.
 
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underpressure02

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All Generac air-cooled home standby engines are made in their factory in Whitewater, WI, and have been for several years. Generac does also make some of their liquid-cooled, engines, but I don't think they make the one in the 25kW.

As has been mentioned, 25kW is a lot of generator for a typical home. Just the weekly excercise will cost you a lot in fuel, not to mention the cost of the installation - the wire must be rated for 104 amps.

The only reason I was going to go with this one over a new 20KW is because it is pretty cheap. I see the fuel usage is about a gal more vs the 20KW. I was trying to figure out who made the motor bc on the site it has Generac listed as the manufacture. I called the company and they said you can still get parts for it as the unit is not that old so that is good to know.

Where I live when I loose power it is normally for a few days up to 12 days has been the longest so far. There is a line that supplies the 5 houses where I live and when it goes down we are the last people to get power. I was running a 8500kw unit and when I wanted to take a shower I pretty much had to shut most things off in the house. Currently what I try to run is 3 fridges, 2 freezers, well pump, camera system, and some lights.

Is it safe to assume that Liquid cooled motors are "better"? I am thinking they will run cooler which should make the motor last longer and should produce less noise then an air cooled unit?
 

Rookie2

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yes and they run at 1800 rpm vs 3600 rpm for air cooled. 8500 watt is plenty but you were probably running everything 120v off of one side of the generator !

Buy the 25kw and resale it ! then buy the one that fits your needs.
 
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underpressure02

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yes and they run at 1800 rpm vs 3600 rpm for air cooled. 8500 watt is plenty but you were probably running everything 120v off of one side of the generator !

Buy the 25kw and resale it ! then buy the one that fits your needs.

I think the well pump is 220volt from my understanding.
 

davidlee

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25KW overkill? That depends on what your usage is. I have a 23Kw diesel and find it the proper size for us. I live in the south where we like to run our A/C units when the line power goes out. With 11 tons of A/C plus the other stuff 23Kw meets out needs with nothing to spare. I realize you are looking at a propane unit but my fuel consumption is about 1 gal per hr at full load.
 
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Charles (in GA)

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I'd start looking around for another propane tank. Extra capacity, you can buy when it is cheapest and save a bundle, and it will give you a reserve for the generator.

Probably can find a tank used for a reasonable price, especially in an area where they are converting from propane to natural gas.

Charles
 

Rookie2

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If you have NG ,it's a lot less expensive (propane generators are natural gas generators also). In the middle of a snow caused outage NO ONE will deliver propane to you . same in Florida after a large storm when you run out your done.
 

Milton Shaw

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Do remember that one of the first things they cut off in a natural disaster like Hurricane Sandy was natural gas. That is why I went with propane on my generator. 500 gallon (400 usable) should give me a week or more at full load.
 

2ManyProjects

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Parts shouldn't be a problem, but the engine is definitely not Generac. They do not make their own water cooled engines. Could be Mitsubishi or GM.

I think I recall that when I looked into this several years ago, their "larger" water-cooled models used the GM 4.3L V-6, converted to run on either NG or LPG as needed, instead of gasoline. From a long-term parts-availability standpoint, I would choose that over a proprietary Generac-designed/built engine every time.

Suggest you get the model number of the complete generator and of the engine and Google both for manuals and parts lists for a better idea what you are getting into.

I'll second this.


What makes you think it is necessarily that particular model? Generac also offers 25kW versions of their residential "Guardian" series, and various commercial models as well.

All Generac air-cooled home standby engines are made in their factory in Whitewater, WI, and have been for several years. Generac does also make some of their liquid-cooled, engines, but I don't think they make the one in the 25kW.

I was not able to find a real spec sheet for the model that "Rookie2" linked to; but according to the spec sheet for the 25kW "Guardian" model, it's a Generac-brand 1.5L inline-4.

As has been mentioned, 25kW is a lot of generator for a typical home.

I guess that depends on what you mean by "a lot of generator" and/or "a typical home". Sure, if you only want to keep a very few critical loads alive, you can get by with much less (the 7kW "Corepower" model comes to mind). But then you need to predict which particular loads will or won't prove "critical", and make "educated guesswork" decisions about how long you're willing to live without the others. OTOH, if you want to side-step all that and simply power the whole house, then 25kW is nowhere near overkill. For example, I have 150A service to my relatively modest (and very typical, here in suburbia) early-'60s 3BR/2BA ranch. When I last seriously considered a standby generator, I decided that while 25-27kW would probably suffice, I'd really prefer a 36kW model, so that there would be NO need to have any concerns about splitting/shedding loads.

Just the weekly excercise will cost you a lot in fuel,

According to that same above-mentioned spec sheet, it uses 0.7 gal./hour during the exercise cycle. I'm not sure how long that cycle lasts; but I'd guess no more than a half hour (if that much). Propane prices seem to vary widely in different areas; but just to throw a dart, he's probably looking at less than $1.50/week for this. Big whoopie.

The only reason I was going to go with this one over a new 20KW is because it is pretty cheap.

Water-cooled will also tend to be quieter.

I see the fuel usage is about a gal more vs the 20KW.

Exactly what figures are you comparing? If it is the rated maximum consumption, you need to remember that once you're past the "no load" overhead, fuel consumption is largely determined by the load on the unit at any given moment. Hence, you need to compare the two units at the SAME load. Yes, most units are somewhat more fuel-efficient at full load than at, say 1/4-load or 1/2 load. But nonetheless, I would be surprised if a 25kW unit supplying 10kW to the load really burned all that much more fuel than, say, a 15kW unit supplying that same 10kW. And besides, running at full load most/all the time is a good way to wear out the engine in a hurry.

Is it safe to assume that Liquid cooled motors are "better"?

Well... Probably as safe as any sweeping generalization can be.

I am thinking they will run cooler which should make the motor last longer and should produce less noise then an air cooled unit?

Probably correct; but it does still depend somewhat on the specific models in question.

yes and they run at 1800 rpm vs 3600 rpm for air cooled.

The liquid-cooled model you pointed to runs at 3,600 RPM, as clearly stated right on that page.

Buy the 25kw and resale it ! then buy the one that fits your needs.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

If the used genny is really such a big bargain that he could reliably re-sell it at a profit, then it would be just as big a bargain if he were to save himself that hassle and use it for himself.

OTOH, if it turns out that it is NOT such a great bargain (which he would probably not discover until after he'd bought it), then he has money invested in a white elephant, with no good way to recoup that loss -- and he STILL needs a generator.

 
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CNGsaves

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If you have NG ,it's a lot less expensive (propane generators are natural gas generators also). In the middle of a snow caused outage NO ONE will deliver propane to you . same in Florida after a large storm when you run out your done.

^ ^ ^ This. Check on conversion kit to run Natural Gas instead of propane.

Especially since OP is in Pennsylvania and sitting on top on one the largest NG reserves in the entire country !!

25Kw is not much overkill if you've got house and shop that you want to keep going when outage occurs. That price is pretty darn good and only 150 hours runtime is just like brand new.

Few years ago there was vast oversupply of whole-house Generac units in FL after hurricane scare died down ; best prices of 20Kw were around $2500 - - - some units were never even installed (just sat in garage).

Check to make sure antifreeze is up to snuff along with rubber parts like radiator hoses, belts, etc.

I'd say go for it !!
 

Rookie2

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my bad ! Residential/CenturionSeries/25kW/ is the only 25kw listed . and is at 3600 rpm with a 1.6l engine. however also in the various spec sheets there is a 2.4l engine listed at 1800rpm. It has a class G rated generator end.
in any case I would avoid any, yes ANY 3600 RPM Genset except a portable that was to be used in a pinch or construction.
 

LXCam

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Generac makes a pretty decent product. I can't speak for the unit you're looking at.. I've installed several of their 100kw+ units in small commercial applications without issue and found them to be cost effective and reliable. But like any engine driven device, it all depends on how well it was maintained. You might consider calling a generator service company that has the ability to load bank test it and see if its worth the cost to you. These companies will let you know if there are any issues with the unit.

Good luck
 
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underpressure02

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Well I went and looked at the generator and to me it "looks" good. He has everything for the unit and nothing is rusted or look worn out. He cranked it over for me and it cranked fine. He was not able to run it because he did not have a propane setup for it to run. I asked the seller if he will guarantee that it will work. He said he does not provide warranties but he said if I have any issues with it not running or producing power he would come look at it and not charge me. Didn't really leave a warm and fuzzy but better then nothing.

The seller is an authorized dealer for Generac and does mostly commercial places. This was used at his close friends house who lives on the farm. His friend just upgraded to a bigger 3 phase unit and he took this out and gave him some trade in cash towards a bigger unit. He did state that when he removed it everything was functioning and working properly. He claims he removed it 6 months ago. I asked why he took so long to sell it and he basically said he was hoping for another big storm to drive the prices up. But since that did not happen and he is trying to clear out some room he is selling it a long with other very large units.

The seller seemed to be honest and not trying to pull a fast one but now a days you never know. He is firm on the price but said he would deliver it for free. I haven't really been able to find any comparable used generators to get an idea on how his asking price compares to others.
 

frankzlt1

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Was the generator a 3600 rpm unit or 1800. What motor is in it? I'm a generac dealer and service. If you got the serial # I can check out the generator at generac to see if it ever had any big issues or any problems while it was still under warranty or if anything was ever reported. The one big thing with liquid cooled generators are you got to maintain them on a regular basis. You really need to change the antifreeze once a year because unless it gets used on a regular basis,even when the generator exercises once a week by itself its still not enough run time to keep the antifreeze circulated properly. The antifreeze will turn to acid and start eating at any of the aluminium and will start corroding the steel.
 
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underpressure02

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Was the generator a 3600 rpm unit or 1800. What motor is in it? I'm a generac dealer and service. If you got the serial # I can check out the generator at generac to see if it ever had any big issues or any problems while it was still under warranty or if anything was ever reported. The one big thing with liquid cooled generators are you got to maintain them on a regular basis. You really need to change the antifreeze once a year because unless it gets used on a regular basis,even when the generator exercises once a week by itself its still not enough run time to keep the antifreeze circulated properly. The antifreeze will turn to acid and start eating at any of the aluminium and will start corroding the steel.

Sent you a pm with the info.
 

Helix

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Most likely a 2.4L Mitsubishi engine which are very nice. Generac used to use a 1.6L Chery on similar sized liquid cooled models. We've had a couple of those develop ignition timing issues.

And Generac has never manufactured their own liquid cooled engines. They do a good job of sourcing engines and slapping a nifty Generac tag on them, leaving people to believe they've made them.

Was the generator a 3600 rpm unit or 1800. What motor is in it? I'm a generac dealer and service. If you got the serial # I can check out the generator at generac to see if it ever had any big issues or any problems while it was still under warranty or if anything was ever reported. The one big thing with liquid cooled generators are you got to maintain them on a regular basis. You really need to change the antifreeze once a year because unless it gets used on a regular basis,even when the generator exercises once a week by itself its still not enough run time to keep the antifreeze circulated properly. The antifreeze will turn to acid and start eating at any of the aluminium and will start corroding the steel.

Just check the coolant every year for pH and freeze point. Change when it starts to drop off in protection.
 

CNGsaves

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Well I went and looked at the generator and to me it "looks" good. He has everything for the unit and nothing is rusted or look worn out. He cranked it over for me and it cranked fine. He was not able to run it because he did not have a propane setup for it to run. I asked the seller if he will guarantee that it will work. He said he does not provide warranties but he said if I have any issues with it not running or producing power he would come look at it and not charge me. Didn't really leave a warm and fuzzy but better then nothing.

The seller is an authorized dealer for Generac and does mostly commercial places. This was used at his close friends house who lives on the farm. His friend just upgraded to a bigger 3 phase unit and he took this out and gave him some trade in cash towards a bigger unit. He did state that when he removed it everything was functioning and working properly. He claims he removed it 6 months ago. I asked why he took so long to sell it and he basically said he was hoping for another big storm to drive the prices up. But since that did not happen and he is trying to clear out some room he is selling it a long with other very large units.

The seller seemed to be honest and not trying to pull a fast one but now a days you never know. He is firm on the price but said he would deliver it for free. I haven't really been able to find any comparable used generators to get an idea on how his asking price compares to others.

Might need to do more research as sounds a little fishy that "Generac authorized dealer" wouldn't provide any warranty on unit. Surely the guy could jerry-rig up genset to run with 100 lb tank of propane and several heaters to load test. Do research if that particular unit is oddball or albatross of sorts - - hard to find parts or whatever. "Mystery shop" another Generac dealer in another state and see what he says.

At minimum, I'd want put in WRITING what you said Generac dealer DID offer which was FREE SERVICE for a period of time . . . ie a SERVICE WARRANTY. Maybe due to age of genset, that's why he "can't offer warranty" or company policy. After only 150 hrs, nothing should be wrong with engine unless it was ran without oil or overheated. Good luck.
 
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