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General contractor sharing advise.

blue dog

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After hearing multiple nightmare stories regarding general contractors I thought I could give some advise for the future for those that plan to have something built. It does not matter if it is a small shop, home or a commercial building. For those in the building industry, if there is anything that I miss, please feel free to add to this post.
First, decide if you want to act as the owner builder and pull your own permits or hire a general contractor to run your job start to finish. If you are acting as owner builder, it is your responsibility to pull the permits, schedule all labor, materials and inspections. Make sure all materials are ordered and delivered before they are needed. This is a problem that I see all the time. Remember time is money on the interest on your construction loan. So, the last thing you want to do is wait for rough plumbing valves or a electric panel etc etc. It is more then just hiring the electrician and plumber, remember, job site toilet, construction fencing, temporary power, trash hauling and job site clean up. Make sure your job site has fire extinguishers and first aid kits. I can not express to you the importance of securing your job site. Not just for theft, the last thing you need is someone going in at night and falling in a hole or tripping over something and getting hurt. It does not matter if they should be there or not, you are responsible.
I strongly urge you to set up your construction loan as a voucher system. Subs will submit a draw to you, you will send it to the bank if all work is complete, the bank will send a rep out to walk the job and verify, he then goes back to the bank and they authorize the draw, it is then sent directly to the sub or to the general to distribute. I try to work all my jobs this way. This is the safest way for all. Theft will not happen in this way of doing business.
You must get lien releases from people as you distribute checks owed. No lien release, no check, it is as simple as that. Verify every subs license and insurance. Additionally I require all subs to supply me with a additionally insured certificate to come on my jobs. And the bank that gives you a loan may require this as well. These are important things that can save your *** in a time of uglyness.
Now, if you decide to hire a contractor to oversee your job, do your due diligence and check him out with the state contractors board, dose he have any marks against him ? how much is his bond worth ? get references, go look at his jobs, talk to previous clients.
When you sign a contract with General, make sure he is very detailed as to what he is going to do and what he is not going to do according to the contract. If it is a substantial contract, take it to a Lawyer and have him look it over. It is worth it, if it costs $350 an hour for an hour to verify what is in the contract it is money well spent.
Weather you are acting as general or hire one, make a detailed schedule as to what happens everyday from start to finish of the job. At this point notify everyone at what date they will be performing work. Then 1 week prior, send an other notice, then the day before as well. Do this by email so you have proof it was sent and request all respond that it was received immediately. Keep printed copies of all correspondents and responses in a file and make sure they are all dated. Have a copy of all trades contracts at the ready so you can refer to them as needed.
Here is where I will really trip you guys up. I have a 24 hour notice in my contracts for all subs. After all the notifications you have on the morning that you are required to show up and start performing work, you are a no show. You will receive a 24 hour notice from me, this gives you 24 hours to commence work or I will hire the sub of my choice to perform your job at your expense. This means what ever the new sub wants to charge me, it is coming out of what I owe you. It is ugly but you sign a contract and agree to it when you take on one of my jobs.
I do not allow subs to have undocumented labor on my projects either, everyone will have a SS# and will be paid by 10-99 0r W2 All labor will sign lien releases to there bosses and be supplied to me for them to receive a check from me or the bank.
Now , lets say you have a complicated framing project that involves tricky footings, bring the concrete guy, framer and contractor all together at the same time, review the plans well ahead of time with them, make sure there is nothing the engineer missed and all are on the same page. This is important, a engineering mishap can cost you down time with guys standing around wearing tool bags, this is costing everyone money.
Make sure your door and window package has been ordered with enough lead time that they arrive right when they are needed, when framing is done, you should have all rough plumbing fixtures at the ready as well as electrical supplies, light cans, wire, boxes etc.
I normally have the plumber move in after framing first, then the HVAC guy then the electrician last.
Prior to insulating, anywhere I have a water fixture, I have my painter come and spray a nice coat of kills primer on the rough framing, this includes the wall sheeting, studs and floor. This is just added protection against water rot in the future. As well on the exterior we will paint poly up 15” from the bottom of the framing or slab, all corners get rolled 12” and around all windows and doors as well as the rough openings. Again this is added protection and does not cost that much but can go a long way in the future against water damage,
Remember, the building code is the bare minimum and we here at the garagejournal are not the kind of guys that do the bare minimum.
Moving into finish, again make sure all materials are ordered and delivered to the job before being needed, keep you correspondence with your suppliers just as you did with the subs. And never pay in full for material until it hits the job.
You get the picture here, I do not feel the need to ramble on threw the entire construction process.
Now at the end of the job, verify the quality control of everything prior to signing a pay voucher or writing a check. If there is anything you are not happy with ,this is the time to bring it up, all subs will bend over backwards to do what you want when you are holding a big check over them.
10 percent retainer will be held on all subs until the job is 100 percent complete and to your satisfaction. This is standard practice and if you can not accept it, you will not be working on my jobs, it is that simple and it is in your contract.
In a previous thread I touched on having a 3rd party company that documents your projects digitally as well as all copies of every piece of paper generated on a job. This has proven to be a invaluable service that I will never build without. I personally have never been sued regarding construction projects but have had to sue others, this service is worth its weight in gold and will save your bacon in a frivolous lawsuit. It ***** we have to do this these days but that is the way it is.
This is the company I use, just so you can see what they do.
http://www.buildersprotect.com/
And for a developer, they will field all customer service calls and call the subs to perform there work. Again, worth its weight in gold.
I have been a general contractor in the Los Angeles area for 20 years and did have my license in Arizona and Nevada for a while but have let them go a long time ago, I was starting to get to big for my own britches and I preferred to work in southern California.
I hope this sheds some light on things that plan to do some building in the future, it should be a fun experience and not a ball of stress.
Here are a few buildings that I have built in the last few years before the economy took a dive.
 

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blue dog

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Sorry this was so long, i tried to make it cliff notes and i do realize there is a difference between building a 22'x22' garage and a 6 million dollar building with double deck underground garage, but the same principles apply and all subs get treated the same, big or small.
 

danski0224

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Your suggestions would only apply to people seeking to pay what it takes to get the job done properly, using a contractor that charges enough to cover labor + expenses + profit as a legitimate business.

Those customers that seek to get it done as cheaply as possible, or those that simply compare 3 line item "free" bids are usually getting what they deserve. Naturally, no one wants to pay for a detailed proposal (so the customer knows what he/she is paying for) because everyone thinks they are entitled to a free "estimate" including materials lists, drawings and labor + materials breakouts so they can shop it to death, line by line.

A project is more than labor and materials. It is a system that must work together at completion. Labor is moving a pile of rocks from one pile to another. Building trades are more than just labor.

Most people have absolutely no idea what it costs to build something right, and not necessarily just "to code". Sometimes the internet makes it worse with the "Is $***.** too much for this ZZZ project? What did you pay?" questions and answers when nothing is known about the scope of the job.

When people shop by price first, they do get what they pay for, whether they like it or not.

And of course, there are those GC's and clients acting as GC's that make their money by screwing over their subs on every job, holding that last 10%, and telling the subs to "take me to court and get it".
 
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Holedgr

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Jun 21, 2006
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Good write-up, Blue! However, I also agree with Danski's comments as well. I have been a contractor for many moons now and it seems that the subcontractor problems are the same regardless of what end of the spectrum you are on (residential vs commercial).

I would like to add that that people should realize that you are hiring a contractor to do a job, NOT to give you a hands-on apprenticeship or a 1/2 hour explanation of every practice you utilize in the process....People need to be aware that the contractors time is valuable and should schedule times for discussion or at least have some courtesy as to how much of the contractors time you burn with questions you could have answered yourself by looking around the job, or looking at the plans, or god forbid, giving some THOUGHT to the process.

I don't mean to say that you shouldn't ask questions.....Just don't question everything....If you don't trust a contractor, DON'T hire them...

I have been reading my journal of 2010 as made an astonishing discovery....In the attempt to be the 'better' contractor, I have spent too much time talking with my customers. I like to be informative, which is more than the competition offers, but have found it difficult to regulate the amount of time spent 'educating' without being perceived as 'unapproachable'.

Just my .02 after 20 years...

-T
 

Holedgr

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Just one more comment....

I have NEVER met a good contractor that doesn't LOVE to work with an informed and educated client. I have found the jobs to go smoother and my process is appreciated much more because they have an idea of what it entails. They know what they want, what to expect to get when they pay for it, and that good things take time.

-T
 

GarageEnvy

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Very good advice. From my one little garage project I can definitely say I was glad I had a meeting with the concrete guy, framer and engineer ahead of time. It saved $2,000 in costs and probably another week and $2,000 in tear out costs. I also wished I had ordered doors and windows earlier. It was not part of the original project and the 6 week lead time created close to a month of lost time.

One other question for you though....
There are times when a problem does not surface right away or at least you do not become aware of it right away. Although this hasn't happened to me, I see it a lot with other homeowners. What are your recommendations on getting follow up service after everyone has been paid? Here's a recent example I had. Homeowner has a bathroom remodeled with permits and inspections and all. Six months later a small leak in the plumbing in the wall has finally started to bubble drywall. Homeowner calls the insurance company and now they've got mold testing everyone pointing fingers at who should be responsible.
 

danski0224

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What caused the leak?

Obvious poor plumbing joint?

Drywall screw?

Someone confusing "mold" with "money"?

What would your mechanic say and why are construction people treated differently?
 

mrb

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great post, and those are some beautiful projects you completed. Its nice to see something posted by a real contractor. -not a home remodeler.
 

GarageEnvy

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I'm an appraiser and part of my inspection process is to flip switches and poke my head in attics and crawl spaces. The inspection is not technically exhaustive and I'm really only looking for readily observable conditions. However, a lot of people naturally assume that I am doing a home inspection so they start showing me things and asking problems. Incidentally, don't do that. A lot of people show me things that hurt their value that I never would have discovered. I have no idea what caused the leak. A pure guess would be either a leaking shower pan or the failed joint. Maybe a screw. The point was that you can't hold final payment up forever and outside of being a reputable contractor and relying on someone to stand behind their work for a reasonable amount of time what can a homeowner do to insure service after payment when it is warranted. I know the reasonable amount of time and when it is warranted has a lot of room for interpretation.
 

DeadSock

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Since the buyer pays for an inspection (for their benefit), the buyer *should* point to things and ask questions.

If a seller is doing that they are an :drool: idiot.
 
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blue dog

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Your suggestions would only apply to people seeking to pay what it takes to get the job done properly, using a contractor that charges enough to cover labor + expenses + profit as a legitimate business.


And of course, there are those GC's and clients acting as GC's that make their money by screwing over their subs on every job, holding that last 10%, and telling the subs to "take me to court and get it".

What's your point, hire a unlicensed contractor to get the job done cheaply, i do not understand, as to your 2nd statement, i am sure there are guys that do what you say, i do not and have had the same subs work for me for 15 years, all of them. And i would never try to screw them out of there 10 percent retainer, again , we would just end up in court. Retaineris in my contract, don't like it, don't do work for me, not a problem for me at all.
 
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blue dog

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Very good advice. From my one little garage project I can definitely say I was glad I had a meeting with the concrete guy, framer and engineer ahead of time. It saved $2,000 in costs and probably another week and $2,000 in tear out costs. I also wished I had ordered doors and windows earlier. It was not part of the original project and the 6 week lead time created close to a month of lost time.

One other question for you though....
There are times when a problem does not surface right away or at least you do not become aware of it right away. Although this hasn't happened to me, I see it a lot with other homeowners. What are your recommendations on getting follow up service after everyone has been paid? Here's a recent example I had. Homeowner has a bathroom remodeled with permits and inspections and all. Six months later a small leak in the plumbing in the wall has finally started to bubble drywall. Homeowner calls the insurance company and now they've got mold testing everyone pointing fingers at who should be responsible.

Gargeenvy, in your case, the plumber and all subs are liable for a 1 year warranty on all work performed. If the leak was a bad joint that he installed, he is liable for the repair as well as the repair to any other damage like drywall, wet insulation, paint etc. All subs are on the hook for 1 year minimum in the state of California and the general is on the hook for a 10 year structural warranty, no ifs and or ****'s about it. I can not speak for other states. Az and Nv. are the same as California.
 
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blue dog

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Just one more comment....

I have NEVER met a good contractor that doesn't LOVE to work with an informed and educated client. I have found the jobs to go smoother and my process is appreciated much more because they have an idea of what it entails. They know what they want, what to expect to get when they pay for it, and that good things take time.

-T

Agreed 100 percent.
 

DeadSock

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The way I look at it is:

YOU'RE GOING TO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR ...

Generally this means ...

1) lowest bid.
Sure, the neighbor kid will cut/trim your lawn for $5. Don't be surprised if he mucks up and cuts into a prized rosebush.
Sure "those guys" can install that concrete slab. Don't be surprised if it comes out like ****.

2) highest bid.
They probably don't want the job, but will take it if you pay!
This is the "landscape professionals" that do hundreds of acres a week. Your 30x40 lawn isn't worth their bother.
This is also the concrete companies that typically do 5mil plus jobs. A garage slab? ... pahhleeze.

3) middle bid.
At this point, you have to evaluate the bidder. Nowadays, it's not uncommon to get the "professionals" that wouldn't have given a homeowner the time of day 3 years ago. You can also get the "fly-by-night" learning-on-the-job folks who formed a business after they've got laid off in the last 3 years. They might be great "masons", but **** at actually doing the business side.

The pros will present business license and bond info without asking (hint to you legit contractors out there). The "newbs" to the business *may* provide the license/bond info (with an explanation about being new), some will never get back with it.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes I'll take "lowbid", generally the "midbid", and if warranted will question the "highbid" about why they think their worth the premium (if they get back they might get considered). If it's something that will be expensive to "fix", the "lowbid" isn't even in the running. If there is no risk of "mucking it up", why not go with the "lowbid" ...

Just IMO.
 
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blue dog

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I charge to bid projects, in the end, if you choose me, what you paid for the bid will be applied to the work quoted. This avoids looky lou's. I as well will not not supply you a complete breakdown unless you accept my number. I have learned that people will take your detailed bid right to an other General and ask them if they can beat your number. Of course they can [ to get the job ]
I work in a cut throat industry, Like i said before, it has become not fun, i carry to much liability, the stress is huge, financial burden of huge overhead and i am lucky if one time a week i get to put my bags on and do some fine finish work.
It is very hard to go start doing something else for a living when this is all i know.
Taco stand at the beach in Baja, owner, cook and server, sounds good about right now.
 

DeadSock

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Just one more comment....

I have NEVER met a good contractor that doesn't LOVE to work with an informed and educated client. I have found the jobs to go smoother and my process is appreciated much more because they have an idea of what it entails. They know what they want, what to expect to get when they pay for it, and that good things take time.

-T
As one from the "informed and educated client" side, I also agree 100%.

From my side, the contractors also realize that "skimping" isn't going to fly by so you get the quality job they are being paid to do.

One question for the "contractors" out there ...
As the contractee, I'm comfortable with "cost of materials at start of work", "remainder" when work complete. If a permit, pulled by contractor, involved, then 10% is held back until permit approved.

That last check also isn't cut without a lien release.

Needless to say, it's always something I'll discuss with a contractor *before* I ink a contract.
 
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blue dog

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As one from the "informed and educated client" side, I also agree 100%.



That last check also isn't cut without a lien release.

Lien release for all payments, first, second, third and last payment. And lien releases from all employees from all subs as well. It has come to this.
 

COWBOY

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blue dog.. great stuff lots of good advice.

deadsock... tell it like it is. some just don't want the truth.


when presenting bid proposal many times 1st questain is How can we do it cheaper?
 

COWBOY

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bluedog agree no free bids. with liberal courts today contracting is huge risk. most have no idea, use to have 1 page contracts, now not sure if 5
is enough.

need a partner in taco stand?
 

GarageEnvy

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Since the buyer pays for an inspection (for their benefit), the buyer *should* point to things and ask questions.

If a seller is doing that they are an :drool: idiot.

I should probably let this one go but since it is such a common misconception, I have to point it out. The appraisal is far different than a home inspection. With regard to the appraisal, although the buyer is paying for it, they are not the client. The client is typically the lender who ordered the appraisal. The client controls the appraisal and the dissemination of data. Ultimately the primary purpose of the appraisal is to protect the lender in this case. FHA is slightly different and they have muddied the waters with trying to serve two masters and dual roles of appraisals. One of the many stupid rules regarding control of the appraisal is that the appraiser is not allowed to give the borrower a copy of it but the lender is required by law to give them a copy. Control of the appraisal is important because if you switch lenders you may very well have to pay for a whole new appraisal to be done. Sorry for the thread interruption.
 

MrMark

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Southern Cal.
I charge to bid projects, in the end, if you choose me, what you paid for the bid will be applied to the work quoted. This avoids looky lou's. I as well will not not supply you a complete breakdown unless you accept my number. I have learned that people will take your detailed bid right to an other General and ask them if they can beat your number. Of course they can [ to get the job ]
I work in a cut throat industry, Like i said before, it has become not fun, i carry to much liability, the stress is huge, financial burden of huge overhead and i am lucky if one time a week i get to put my bags on and do some fine finish work.
It is very hard to go start doing something else for a living when this is all i know.
Taco stand at the beach in Baja, owner, cook and server, sounds good about right now.

Are you a finish carpenter by trade?
 
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