General ratcheting technique question

[wlai]

I am self taught on car repairs and so am not sure if this is a technique thing or do I just need better tools. Here goes:

When using a ratchet and socket to loosen a bolt, after the bolt is freed, very quickly the tools becomes useless as it won't "ratchet" and the bolt just spins back and forth rather than just in the loosening direction. Same thing when starting a bolt, the initial, oh 70% of it always has to be hand tightened before the ratchet will start doing its thing.

Is it my technique or my tools? Or is this just the way it goes? I have mid-80's US-made Craftsman ratchet, ain't the smoothest but it is solidly built. Does better ratcheting mechanism solves this? Do I just need to be schooled?

 

[J.A.F.E.]

I like to use as long an extension as possible. In addition I like to use to a ratchet spinner unless space prohibits. I almost never use a socket directly on the ratchet. So I can hold the extension with one hand to prevent the socket from turning backward or I can use the spinner to spin the bolt/nut off the rest of the way - with or without the ratchet.

The spinner in the image is a Snap-on FR70 they make a 1/4 and 1/2 version and there are some other makers of similar.

Likely you'll have the same issues with any brand at some point.

 

[brollona]

It's just the way it goes. I usually screw bolt/nut with fingers, or I hold socket with fingers, or I press ratchet down with hand/fingers. Depends on the position of bolt/nut.

Or other conditions. Like temperature in my field of work. Sometimes bolt is hot even trough gloves and I cannot screw it with hands.

 

[Dave455]

Sometimes a ratchet isn’t the best tool.

For smaller fasteners I find myself using a ‘sliding T’ handle a lot. Use the T piece at one end for leverage, then put it in the mid position and spin the fastener off.

Alternatively, use a speeder.

In 1/2” drive I have a speeder with a flex drive. You can use it like a breaker bar to loosen a fastener, then straighten the handle and spin off the fastener. Faster than a ratchet.

A ratchet is but one weapon in your armoury...!

 

[icthruu74]

Most times once it reaches that point I just use my fingers to spin the bolt out if I can reach it. You could use a power ratchet or impact to spin it off, or speeder or T-handle, nut drivers...the options are nearly endless

 

[IPFreely]

Grip the socket with the other hand and apply pressure as needed to prevent fastener movement during the ratcheting phase.

 

[Super Mech]

I usually just slide a finger or two around the ratchet head to put some resistance on either the socket or extension I’m using. A fine tooth ratchet with low back drag helps also.

 

[seber]

This is why I virtually never use a standard ratchet. I always go to a flex head and turn the handle straight out to use it as a spinner until the head gets tight. Then straighten it out and use normally. I also always keep a three inch extension on the ratchet no matter the type. Used this way, back drag on the ratchet becomes irrelevant.

 

[Super Mech]

This is why I virtually never use a standard ratchet. I always go to a flex head and turn the handle straight out to use it as a spinner until the head gets tight. Then straighten it out and use normally. I also always keep a three inch extension on the ratchet no matter the type. Used this way, back drag on the ratchet becomes irrelevant.

I agree with this to a certain point. I almost always opt for a flex head ratchet when I can but in tight quarters it’s sometimes impossible to turn the ratchet into a spinner.

 

[RKA]

Usually I’ll put a finger on the socket while ratcheting back to add some resistance as mentioned above. I’ll do that for a few extra turns of the bolt just to make sure it won’t catch again before spinning it out by hand. If I don’t do that, and switch to spinning it by hand as soon as it’s too loose to ratchet, its virtually guaranteed to catch again and I’m fishing the wrench back in...that’s just how it goes.

Low back drag ratchets help a bit, but that wouldn’t be the primary thing I look for when shopping for a ratchet. Those spinners can be handy...if the fit. Sometimes that is a challenge in engine bays. Knurled sockets or even a satin finished socket can be helpful as well. Anything to give you a little extra grip on the socket when hand turning.

 

[Wamsutta]

First off it helps to have a ratchet with as little backdrag as possible; then if the fastener is still too loose for the ratchet, switch to a spin handle. A spin handle is an extension with a screwdriver handle built into it.

 

[ex-x-fire]

Oil up that ratchet to cut down on the backdrag.

 

[danielbuck]

enter: air ratchet (or battery powered)

 

[619DioFan]

This is why I am loving the HF swivel head ratchets I recently picked up. use them as a ratcheting nut driver to set the fastener then as a normal ratchet to tighten. removal works the same.

 

[ItsNemo]

9 times out of 10 I skip the ratchet and go straight for the cordless impact...but if I have to use the ratchet, it's usually loose until I can just use my fingers (with or without the socket/extension).

 

[demarpaint]

I find myself grabbing a swivel head ratchet more and more over the past few years. If need be I put a little pressure on the socket or extension if necessary. When loose enough I use my hand.

 

[RTM]

Back in the day I always used to have my finger spinner right below the ratchet head. I used it with everything to start the screw..

Same thing shown in the second or third post, except mine was old and about half to three quarters of an inch tall

 

[fasteddie]

My set of Craftsman ratchets from the late 70s early 80s has a knurled spinner wheel built into the back of the head. I don't use the set much anymore because of the low tooth count but I do miss that feature. I'm surprised it is not a feature on more modern ratchets.

 

[1320]

Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Pro ratchets can be made very very smooth and low back drag by trimming the springs a bit. I have a 1/4" flex head version that has so little back drag it is almost silent when ratcheting. I use it when the occasions that I can't get my fingers on the socket or can't use an extension or spinner like mentioned above.

They're inexpensive and easy to modify.

 

[Verg]

View media item 100945
not really a wrong answer; fingers, extension, spinner, speeder, power, pressure, what ever saves the most time.

 

[cherrybomb]

I have a Snap-on 1/4 drive sliding tee handle that I use to prevent what your described. I recently purchased a Koken 3769h.It is a 3/8 spin type handle,that you use to spin a socket down to hand tight.Then the handle ,right angles to the fasteners, and you finish securing it.It really works well,very happy with it.Just another choice,in a guys tool box.Choices make wrenching enjoyable for me.

 

[mikeinri]

Simple equation of physics. If the drag of reversing the ratchet (pawl over cogs) is greater than the friction between the threads of the bolt and nut (or stud, etc.), then the nut will spin and the wrench won't reverse. Totally normal.

Lots of good suggestions here on how to overcome. Unfortunately, most require two hands, which isn't always easy when working on a vehicle.

I always start a nut/bolt by hand, with a socket and extension if necessary. Old habit taught to me by my uncle, to avoid crossthreading. Works 99.999% of the time, except when you rush it.

Mike

 

[thool]

First off it helps to have a ratchet with as little backdrag as possible; then if the fastener is still too loose for the ratchet, switch to a spin handle. A spin handle is an extension with a screwdriver handle built into it.

This! I cleaned out my 1/4" and 3/8" ratchets and then reassembled with some Super Lube. These are GearWrench ratchets which are pretty good as far as low drag to begin with, but this cleaning and lube made a huge difference.

Having sockets and extensions with a knurled area helps as well, since you can apply some finger pressure there to control direction. I have even been able to keep the socket/extension/ratchet all in place and spin the knurled area.

Low drag is really the best place to start, even if it means getting a ratchet that costs more for this property.

 

[3baygarage]

I like to use as long an extension as possible. In addition I like to use to a ratchet spinner unless space prohibits. I almost never use a socket directly on the ratchet. So I can hold the extension with one hand to prevent the socket from turning backward or I can use the spinner to spin the bolt/nut off the rest of the way - with or without the ratchet.

The spinner in the image is a Snap-on FR70 they make a 1/4 and 1/2 version and there are some other makers of similar.

Likely you'll have the same issues with any brand at some point.

Those are some of my favorite tools. I have sets of Snap On and old Williams, and a few random ones. Recently I picked up a Mac from an old timer who sells tools. He asked me what it was for, and I told him. He responded with “Pretty stupid if you ask me”. I like them. He still charged me $5 for the Mac name on it.

I also like using knurled extensions. Snap On 3” and 6” for sure.

 

[DadsTools]

I like to use as long an extension as possible. In addition I like to use to a ratchet spinner unless space prohibits. I almost never use a socket directly on the ratchet. So I can hold the extension with one hand to prevent the socket from turning backward or I can use the spinner to spin the bolt/nut off the rest of the way - with or without the ratchet.

This is what my father taught me. He was an aircraft mechanic from before the war into the 70s at the Phila. Navy yard, and during the war on reconnaissance planes in England and France. He taught me never to use a ratchet and socket without an extension. One problem was crawling into tight spaces like wings where there wasn't much room for movement and could not carry multiple tools with you into those spaces. The extension allowed you to palm the ratchet head and turn the extension with your fingers either way as needed, and to separate them if you needed the extension as a nut runner. I like knurled extensions for this, but a judicious application of friction tape does the job too. The extension also helped you to visually see if you had the tool straight onto the fastener. I've followed his instructions to this day.

Another advantage to this approach is when you encounter 'stuck' spot while spinning the fastener out (especially with old, rusty/dirty threads)--the ratchet is right there in the palm to turn it through.

The ratchets I've used with the least back-drag (without any modifications) were the older style low tooth count like a pear-head having two separate pawls that kind of form a letter-V configuration. These, of course, would have commonly been the kind my father used back in the day. I have a 1/2" from the 1950s that will turn by just about breathing on it. It's a real brute too. Plenty of these are still reasonably available on the used market like eBay with the added bonus of having been made in the USA by classic tool mfrs.

As others have said, having a ratchet mechanism properly cleaned and lubed is a big help.

I never liked the thumbwheel ratchets. There's something awkward to me about using them. I think it has to do with where you have to place your grip and bend your fingers to turn them unobstructed with one hand. I find palming the head and turning the extension with my fingers to be a much more natural-feeling approach (my short fingers could play a role in this!).

Although I've never owned one, the modern swivel-head ratchets appear to solve some of these problems, as long as you have the room to swing them out. I'm long past my wrenching days to go out and buy one. But I get the sense that the old head-palming while finger-turning the extension would still give you more control and precision.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the issue.

 

[SeisMec]

Although I've never owned one, the modern swivel-head ratchets appear to solve some of these problems, as long as you have the room to swing them out. I'm long past my wrenching days to go out and buy one.

They solve some of the problems even when 'swung out' (as opposed to screwdriver alignment of the handle).

Watch about 35 seconds of this Youtube and see how a swivel head allows you to increase downward force on the socket (increasing thread drag on the bolt/nut) by pressing down with the handle - no fingers on the socket and/or extension.

 

[gatlibs]

Depending on drive you have different options. There are handled extension in 1/4". Some manufacturers use knurling to allow the extension to be easily turned in this exact situation.