Generator decision

[mike93lx]

Generator is not a lot cheaper, go price out a system. Also they offer a DC generator to couple directly to the E10 system for efficient charging. Minimal solar will top up the system enough that coupled with their generator will get you thru long power outages.

I think you will be surprised how the price compares to a generator that will set for 11.99 months of the year unused.

I have priced it out. A generator is definitely cheaper for comparable output. I looked hard at a battery setup and the cost to cover any decent outage was very significant

"minimal solar" means what? That will differ for all users. A 17kw generator outputs that 24/7, regardless of sun exposure

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I’ll have to look into this. The power cost is $13-15 per kilowatt hour.

about what we pay here...

 

[manwithtools]

I have priced it out. A generator is definitely cheaper for comparable output.

Output once in a blue moon. Yes, how often are you going to use that $$$ generator?

Savings on your electric bill every day, that is a different calculation. It all depends on the rate, TOD and usage factors to pencil out the true cost of the systems.

 

[35Ford]

Good used low hour 1800 RPM liquid cooled units are available. One of the most things to consider is support for whatever unit you decide on.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

My home has a 1000 gallon propane tank that I had installed by the propane distributor.
I made a mistake not to buy from propane dealer because I by Nj law must get it filled from the same dealer at their current price per gallon. I cannot remove their tank and replace with my purchased tank because I would ruin my septic field running a large machine to dig out the old tank. Something to think about placement on your property.

Not to derail this thread but NEVER lease your LP tank from these thieving propane companies.
Buy one and you will own it then you will have freedom to shop prices……. Removing my AmeriGaZZ tank and kicking them to the curb was one of the happiest days in my life and now I am saving money.

BTW! Hire a qualified excavator who won’t damage your septic field to do the removal and installation…….. PM me and I will tell you where I purchased my LP tank in Pennsylvania.

 

[mike93lx]

Output once in a blue moon. Yes, how often are you going to use that $$$ generator?

Savings on your electric bill every day, that is a different calculation. It all depends on the rate, TOD and usage factors to pencil out the true cost of the systems.

Ok

 

[mm08822]

Solar panels will require roof space and a sealed roof design to handle the weight of the panels.
Real question is how far into the build is this house? Still a rough concept on paper, submitted plans, roof trusses already designed, ......, etc.?

This needs to be designed/sized first and then integrated into/onto the home structure. Is there enough roof plane, will it layout and look like another tile job gone bad, locate on the front of the house/rear of the house, bearing of the roof plane(s), shading........etc.

A ground mount still needs detailing, too.

 

[manwithtools]

Ok

Have you ever owned solar and a battery backup system?

 

[manwithtools]

Solar panels will require roof space and a sealed roof design to handle the weight of the panels.

Worst place to put solar, period...

 

[mm08822]

Worst place to put solar, period...

If you don't have the land then what are your options?

 

[manwithtools]

If you don't have the land then what are your options?

Move!

 

[manwithtools]

Keeping solar panels clean is important, that and potential leaks is why roof mount is a poor choice.

 

[mike93lx]

Have you ever owned solar and a battery backup system?

So this discussion was about generators and I brought up a supplemental battery, but its somehow now relevant what my experience with solar is?

I'm good.

To the OP, I would still stand behind the recommendation I made

 

[BillK]

Over the past 5 years the power has been erratic with frequent short losses of power, between 10 mins and a couple hours. The longest I’ve lost power for was about 10 hours.

Probably not a popular GJ opinion but for those few outages I would have to wonder if a generator is more trouble than it is worth ? Thats about the same frequency of outages we have had over the last 30 years and I have never once thought about buying a generator.

 

[Carchie]

I have to agree with wyliesdiesels on this one. Batteries and solar are awesome for those short 2-hour blips you mentioned, but being in NC, if a hurricane or a nasty ice storm rolls through, you might not see the sun for days. Since you're already planning to drop in a 500-gallon propane tank, a solid liquid-cooled generator is definitely the 'buy once, cry once' peace of mind you're looking for

 

[mike93lx]

I have to agree with wyliesdiesels on this one. Batteries and solar are awesome for those short 2-hour blips you mentioned, but being in NC, if a hurricane or a nasty ice storm rolls through, you might not see the sun for days. Since you're already planning to drop in a 500-gallon propane tank, a solid liquid-cooled generator is definitely the 'buy once, cry once' peace of mind you're looking for

So maybe both?

 

[mm08822]

Or the old fashioned way....a power inlet box (PIB), portable tri-fuel generator running on LP.

Splurge.....buy a good 10kw gen with wheels.

Now you have $15k left jingling in yo pocket.

 

[R_Holiday]

Yep an E10 system can be outfitted with real backup capability. A single inverter can handle 30kW of batteries and 9kW of solar input. 20ms of switch over time when power is lost. You can use up to 3 of the inverters for up to 90kW total storage and up to 27kW of solar. There is no way I would use a dedicated generator today when you can buy batteries, inverter, ATS, generator and solar for nearly the same money.

I’ll have to look into this. I haven’t even considered a battery backup system

 

[mike93lx]

Another way to do it is with Victron controllers. They can manage the batteries as well as triggering the generator, but I bet there are generator companies that offer their own integrated battery systems too

 

[manwithtools]

I’ll have to look into this. I haven’t even considered a battery backup system

Take a look here for more information:

Whole House Generators for Complete Home Backup Power

It's an intriguing system, seems very well engineered and integrated. A lot of changes in this industry in the past 5 years.

The system uses grid power (or solar) to keep the batteries charged, in a outage it switches to battery power. If the outage is long enough you have a tri-fuel generator that auto-starts to charge the batteries. If weather cooperates during the outage, solar can also be used to recharge the batteries, the generator serves as the failsafe in this mode.

In everyday use, the batteries can be used to shift time of use of energy or offset peak loads.

EDIT: Keep in mind a system like this only runs the generator enough to charge the batteries, then the batteries cover the load until recharge is needed. Depending on use, the generator may not run much at all. It's not like a whole house generator constantly running during an outage.

 

[R_Holiday]

The house is currently at the framing stage and the roof trusses have already been made. More than likely it’ll be a metal stand and seam roof in lieu of shingles. The Anker system mention by @manwithtools is an interesting alternative that I’ll have to check out. From a quick look from the link it is worth a look.

 

[mm08822]

Figure out when you will break even and ongoing cost of ownership.

Is this more of a technology novelty in search of a problem you really dont have?

Your money, so your choice on how you rationalize it.

 

[mike93lx]

Figure out when you will break even and ongoing cost of ownership.

Is this more of a technology novelty in search of a problem you really dont have?

Your money, so your choice on how you rationalize it.

Whats the calculation for break even point on a generator/battery backup ? Lost food? Hotel rooms?

 

[manwithtools]

Whats the calculation for break even point on a generator/battery backup ? Lost food? Hotel rooms?

Plus the risk of frozen pipes depending one's location.

 

[mm08822]

Whats the calculation for break even point on a generator/battery backup ? Lost food? Hotel rooms?

and flooded basements, flooded finished basements, mold remediation, demo, repair, no water, no hot water, furnace repair/replacement, hot water repair/ replacement.

I know customers who lived much of this (for several days) and have actual bills that justify their need/want.

The OP's situation doesn't sound so compelling.

Unless you have TOD rates in effect, I wouldn't even bother with bats. Even green energy credits may not be compelling enough.

 

[Stuart in MN]

There are intangibles to include when figuring cost versus us benefit - for instance, how much is the added sense of security worth.

 

[mm08822]

Plus the risk of frozen pipes depending one's location.

Based on OP in NC, I wouldn't be too worried, but I did state use a PIB with portable gen.

 

[mm08822]

There are intangibles to include when figuring cost versus us benefit - for instance, how much is the added sense of security worth.

I have customers who have been scarred for life from past outage experiences. Ain't no way they would be w/o a gen tomorrow.

OP seems to be on the other end of this extreme. (And is the context of my reply.)

 

[Junkman]

I have been looking for a backup generator, and this past weekend I looked at a 15 kW, 1800 RPM, 4-cylinder diesel generator, and the fellow wanted $750 for it. It started up without hesitation. It had a steel case on it that looked like you could drop a tree across it, and it would have withstood the fall with barely a scratch. The unit was made in China, probably 40 years ago, but it had no English markings other than the output, etc. I didn't buy it because I felt that if I ever needed any service parts, I would have to go to China to try to find them. It is listed on the MA Facebook Marketplace if anyone is interested. Located in Plainfield, MA.

 

[mike93lx]

and flooded basements, flooded finished basements, mold remediation, demo, repair, no water, no hot water, furnace repair/replacement, hot water repair/ replacement.

I know customers who lived much of this (for several days) and have actual bills that justify their need/want.

The OP's situation doesn't sound so compelling.

Unless you have TOD rates in effect, I wouldn't even bother with bats. Even green energy credits may not be compelling enough.

My suggestion on batteries has nothing to do with saving money on the bill.

It's about having instantaneous cutover and easy coverage for the little blips and outages. The generator takes over for the bigger ones

 

[mm08822]

My suggestion on batteries has nothing to do with saving money on the bill.

It's about having instantaneous cutover and easy coverage for the little blips and outages. The generator takes over for the bigger ones

Other than not seeing the lights flicker, not sure there is any.

 

[bluedog225]

Hurricane Beryl Houston. About 7 days with no power. Elderly in-laws wouldn’t leave. New windows in old 50s house did not open. Brutal summer heat and humidity. Woke up about 3 am and it was literally too hot to stay in house. Outside swarmed with mosquitoes. Gas stations closed. Ice not to be found. HEB (a big company) dropped the ball on the ice. You realize no one is going to help.

Min. req. about 5000 W to run an inverter window unit, fridge, and misc loads. Powered by the nat gas feed if you have it. Allows for basic survival. The rest is gravy.

 

[mike93lx]

Other than not seeing the lights flicker, not sure there is any.

The wifi going out while on the can could be catastophic

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have been looking for a backup generator, and this past weekend I looked at a 15 kW, 1800 RPM, 4-cylinder diesel generator, and the fellow wanted $750 for it. It started up without hesitation. It had a steel case on it that looked like you could drop a tree across it, and it would have withstood the fall with barely a scratch. The unit was made in China, probably 40 years ago, but it had no English markings other than the output, etc. I didn't buy it because I felt that if I ever needed any service parts, I would have to go to China to try to find them. It is listed on the MA Facebook Marketplace if anyone is interested. Located in Plainfield, MA.

yeah thats a hard pass. i bet you couldnt even find parts in china anymore.... 40yrs is quite old for gen motor tech... especially with all the newer inverter stuff out there

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's about having instantaneous cutover and easy coverage for the little blips and outages. The generator takes over for the bigger ones

and what exactly in a house needs such coverage other than comms equipment which can easily go on a network style UPS (APC, Eaton [my fav], etc)?

The fridge isnt gonna croak, the air handler will be fine, if your TV going out for a few mins is that big of a deal put it on a UPS....

 

[mm08822]

The wifi going out while on the can could be catastophic

Yeah, that would be some ****, now wouldn't it.

 

[mike93lx]

and what exactly in a house needs such coverage other than comms equipment which can easily go on a network style UPS (APC, Eaton [my fav], etc)?

The fridge isnt gonna croak, the air handler will be fine, if your TV going out for a few mins is that big of a deal put it on a UPS....

You are using this word "need"...

I am not telling anyone they need a battery backup.